Philemon scaling to the Collective Unconscious

[Solacis]

Thanks for the input

 

[DarkGrath]

This should probably be enough input, if we're all in agreement. Should I start a second thread regarding discussion on who this scales to?

 

[Dr._whiteee]

On the matter of the CU and the humans thing, it's not neccessarily clear due to the shift in team between personas 2 and 3. Philemon states that the CU is the power which created the universe. Which would clearly mean the CU existed in some form prior to humans. This is in stark contrast to nyx backstory with the CU coming into play after humans existed. The best way I see to unite the two is that the "CU" did exist before humans but in a different form (and thusly not being a "collective unconscious for humans), and then was transformed when conscious beings were present to have a collective unconscious.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I can agree with that.

 

[Solacis]

It sounds more like what Morgana said at the end of P5. The whole world is a product of Cognition. Sounds more metaphorical than literal, since Cognition did basically shape the way the universe turned out to be since humans kept making up new gods and goddesses through Cognition.

So Cognition might be the most basic form of the CU, and the CU became a collective cognition once humans started tapping into it en masse.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

I disagree. Philemon was explaining a fundamental part of reality. In this context it was being directly correlated to the protag's ability to create a new universe."Even the power that created the cosmos you live in is the same as yours. In this collective unconscious it is possible." . Cosmos we live in predates us, and Philemon is making a clear comparison between the two. Nothing really metaphorical about that tbh.

 

[Solacis]

Sounds like the "power" in this case is Cognition. Cognition created the universe, just like Morgana said, and Cognition then created the CU. So Cognition predated the CU, and the CU just makes it easier to tap into it. Makes sense to me.

 

[DarkGrath]

If I remember correctly, Morgana's statement was "This whole world is a product of cognition".

With the context in mind, it's dubious to consider this statement 100% literal. It's definitely true to some extent, considering reality warping and how a large theme in the game regards how changes in perception can affect the world. But it seems like a bit of a stretch to say that this definitively means cognition created the entire universe.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I agree with Dr.Whitee. Just like Observation and Demons and Gods existed before, it never gained shape and form until humanity has access to our.

 

[Morning_Star_TM]

But i believe that in the context, Tatsuya and his friends were required to alter the universe, and that Tatsuya refusing to have his memories erased resulted in the creation of the Eternal Punishment Timeline, where the events of Innocent Sin Timeline never happend. Am i wrong or what?

 

[Ikelaggan]

I'd like to interject Here, but I looked into This and the whole Collective Unconscious thing in persona and I want to know what your fefeedback is.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I'd like to interject Here, but I looked into This and the whole Collective Unconscious thing in persona and I want to know what your fefeedback is.

This is a very old, outdated, and wrong CRT we’ve already refuted over discord in which everyone on the thread agrees with.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Also, these scans don’t work.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Just needed to know.