Phil Connors Revisions

[Inverted_Tempest]

>"Acausality"

This needs to be possible or just outright removed. If he's causing it himself, he should already be safe from the effects of it. Or else with this logic, Dio moving in his own Time Stop would grant him resistance off of that.

>"Precognition"

This needs to go. After that many resets, it's only logical he could determine what events are going to carry out. Precognition needs to go because in short, it is wank.

>"Stealth Mastery"

Again, applies to the idea he already knows what will happen because of just how he's in the time loop with his experiences, so this needs to objectively be removed.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

For the first point, there is no confirmation wheter or not it is Phil who is causing the time loops, only that he is aware of them.

Isn't determing the future through any given means by definition precog? We already give precog to characters who are smart enough to scientifically calculate future events. It's not really wank either, the fact that he can predict events throughout the day through repeated timeloops would remain the same with or without precog listed on his profile.

Fair enough on stealth mastery.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

For the first point, there is no confirmation wheter or not it is Phil who is causing the time loops, only that he is aware of them.
Isn't determing the future through any given means by definition precog? We already give precog to characters who are smart enough to scientifically calculate future events. It's not really wank either, the fact that he can predict events throughout the day through repeated timeloops would remain the same with or without precog listed on his profile.

Fair enough on stealth mastery.

If Phil's not causing the time loop, then he needs to have the Time Manipulation removed from the page. It's either he has Limited Acausality or he has the Time Manipulation, he can't have both.

He knows that because he has been to the future. Precognition would be he can look into the future, or else anyone who has time traveled might as well have Precognition by similar logic.

Glad you agree on Stealth Mastery.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

If Phil's not causing the time loop, then he needs to have the Time Manipulation removed from the page. It's either he has Limited Acausality or he has the Time Manipulation, he can't have both.

We have confirmation on neither, so both are equally possible. Perhaps it would be better to word it as "Likely either Limited Acausality (Type 1) or Limited Time Manipulation".

He knows that because he has been to the future. Precognition would be he can look into the future, or else anyone who has time traveled might as well have Precognition by similar logic.

"Precognition may be based on any number of factors; it may be based on reading the minute body movements of an opponent, predicting their actions through observatio, mathematical predictions, or through some unspecified magical or astronomical means, among any other number of abilities."

To be fair, most Time Travel users don't repeat events so much to the degree that they can accurately predict results and many suffer from stuff that confound precog like that such as butterfly effects.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

If he has no confirmation of the Time Manipulation actually applying to him, then it needs to be removed in favor of the Acausality which seems far more direct and likely. The Immortality note can still stay, just not him having the Time Manipulation.

He's not predicting their actions, I already explained he knows the events because he already experienced them. And again, by similar logic, we might as well give Trunks Precognition because he knew the exact date and time the androids would arrive when that would be ignoring the fact he already knew those details.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

If his precog is literally limited to characters and events specifically surrounding said groundhog day then it's not combat applicable. He has never shown this ability outside of living through the same events over and over and therefore knowing what would happen.

I would say it's another ability. Is learning to abuse your immortality to predict your oponents actions really precog?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

This is quite literally not precog. The ability to read your opponents movements is seen as precognition because you're foreseeing the future of what their next movement is, difference here is that Phil isn't foreseeing it, he already knows it. If you can show me an event he can predict that he hasn't lived a gogoplexian times over then I'll accept the idea of this being precognition.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Bump

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Bump

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I agree with this also.

 

[Warren_Valion]

>"Acausality"

I semi-disagree with this.

I think to be able to remember and realize time is being looped counts for at least a Limited type of Acausailty.

>"Precognition"

I agree this has to go.

I wouldn't consider this precognition, or else we have to give precognition to every person who can travel through time or reverse time.

Precognition is the ability to see something before it happens - whether it be actually seeing the future or just reading muscle movements to predict attacks.

Phil knows what is going to happen because he's seen it a thousand times - that's more akin to a "Postcognition" since it has already happened.

>"Stealth Mastery"

I'm semi-disagree with this - yes, Phil knows when they are looking away from the money bag, but he has the skills to casually walk by and steal the money without anyone noticing - I am pretty sure that takes some skill.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Acausality point works if it isn't his ability himself, otherwise it's odd, since it's them being unaffected by their own ability.

The stealth mastery portion he has full knowledge of what they're doing allowing him to make a movement like that.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Acausality point works if it isn't his ability himself, otherwise it's odd, since it's them being unaffected by their own ability.

I never thought of it as his own power since he had no control of it.

I always assumed it was a "gift from God" sort of thing.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

I never thought of it as his own power since he had no control of it.

I always assumed it was a "gift from God" sort of thing.

I mean if this is the case, we already told Dargoo that it would be fine to just have Acausality but to remove the Time Manipulation. Either way, one has to go.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

We should list both, as they are equally likely. Just note that it's either one or the other. One of the points of the movie is that the audience isn't supposed to know why the time loop is happening.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Personally, I'd vouch for the Acausality more over the Time Manipulation but that would just make it confusing if he has both.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Personally, I'd vouch for the Acausality more over the Time Manipulation but that would just make it confusing if he has both.

Dragoo is suggesting either or, not both.

Either Limited-Time Manipulation or Limited Acausaility.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, that.

 

[Antvasima]

Removing time manipulation, precognition, and stealth mastery seems fine.