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Phantom Stranger's tier should be added

Soratoum

Soratoum

103
5
I think his tier should be like: "Unknown. Likely 1-A". And simply because his fight with Spectre was threatening to destroy all of Creation, which is an outerversal feat, since Creation has higher dimensions. And also, The Presence, who is the God of DC, intervened in their fight, this alone is tells us how big of a deal The Phantom Stranger is.

He was described as an equal to The Spectre.
 
Can you show some proof? Regular Spectre is only "At least Low 2-C, likely 2-C", not 1-A. Creation likely referred to the universe in this case.
 
Triton also was described as equal to the Spectre. Trigon also challenged the presence itself to a fight. Trigon is so well known in the actual sphere of heaven that the presence casts out raven when she is to enter and it gets even commented about trigon being the reason. Trigons sons also mocked the phantom stranger that it was difficult for him to navigate an omniversal Nexus in comparison to them.

Yet at best trigon sits at 2B. DC scaling doesn't work in a simple A leads to B way
 
That is true. DC and Marvel are extremely inconsistent.

Still, I suppose that Post-Flashpoint Phantom Stranger might be rated as comparable to the base Spectre.
 
The Presence said they have the same roles, and why the hell would Presence care about just one universe getting destroyed? So many universes have been destroyed before their clash, and Presence never intervened. It was clear all of Creation was in danger. And I think his tier should be like "At least 2-A, potentially 1-A".
 
This scan just seems to be unproven hyperbole: [1]

We can scale the post-Flashpoint Phantom Stranger from the base Spectre, but that's it. Anything else would cause enormous inconsistencies in our scaling system.
 
It is the completely unbound Spectre that is 1-A. The regular Spectre has not been presented as anywhere near as powerful.
 
But Phantom Stranger is agent of God/Presence, just like Spectre, so his full potential should be equal to that of Spectre's.

And okay, I'll ask them.
 
All agents of the Presence are not equal, and they seem to be afforded different degrees of power in different situations.
 
Yes, and that's the reason I'm saying Stranger can potentially be 1-A. Not always, but potentially.
 
Well, unlike the Spectre, that is unproven speculations for the moment.
 
It wasn't unbound Spectre. Phantom Stranger is Spectre's equal when he is at his peak, but he varies wildly.

That feat is 2-A since by "all of existence" they mean the baseline multiverse.
 
Okay. So you don't think that the image was unproven hyperbole?

It does mess up our scaling to rate him as 2-A though, given that it is what we rate Crisis of Infinite Earth Spectre as, whereas normal Spectre is "At least Low 2-C, likely 2-C".

Also, are you certain that we shouldn't count it as a local multiverse cluster/52 universes feat?
 
Spectre needs several revisions. He is just straight up 2-A after Crisis.

The cluster of 52 universes honestly doesn't exist in New 52.
 
@Matthew

If you are unable to help out with the revisions, I would appreciate some instructions for how they should be performed.
 
I still think Stranger should at least have implied 1-A power. Like he is potentially up there, or at least High 1-B, when in Full Potential.
 
@Sandman31

Do you think that Matthew is correct regarding that regular Spectre, Phantom Stranger, and Nabu Doctor Fate should be 2-A?

If not, what do you suggest?
 
No. That feat is not an AP feat. It's just because of the Spectre's and Phantom Stranger's cosmic role in Creation. Their role necessary to maimtain the balance etc..

Heres the exact quote:

"The two of you have cosmic roles to play...each one precisely balancing the other.So play together nicely children. If you dont---all of Creation might pay the price"

It didnt even said that it will destroy Creation. Just that it will "pay the price"
 
That is true. So should we close this thread then?
 
No, that doesn't even make sense. Creation might pay the price? That means that it's endangered and could be destroyed due to their clash. What else can that mean?
 
It seems too diffuse and unproven to me.
 
Honestly, what else could it mean? "Creation might pay the price". They were going to shatter it if they continue fighting, it's the only logical explanation.
 
That was never remotely stated outright, much less proven.
 
I think that this thread should be closed. Sandman31 is our main DC Comics expert.
 
That doesn't mean the rest of us don't know a thing. And it was proven, Presence intervened. Why would he intervene if his creation wasn't in danger?
 
No, thats not. Pay a price can mean many things, one of them is your definition but thats not the only one. For all we know it can damage Creation but not destroy it.

Also, even if we ignore that, the feat is more about balance and the roles the Spectre and PS plays in maintaning that balance.
 
If Spectre is the balancing side of the Phantom Stranger, shouldn't he have the same tier, regardless of his feats.

I know that PS is almost featless, but so are many characters on this site, for example, Doctor Manhattan. Guy appeared only two times in Rebirth, all of his other feats are only bold statements and implied feats, and yet he has a High 2-A tier, only because Mxy is allegedly afraid of someone, and that someone being Doc M, which was never confirmed.
 
Well, we already gave post-Flashpoint Phantom Stranger the same tier as the base Spectre, so that would cover the balance part.
 
Shouldn't it be "At least Low 2-C, likely much higher", because I'm 99.99% sure he is above 2-C.
 
That does not fit with the previous scaling.

I am getting tired of this, and would prefer to close this.
 
You can close this, but you wouldn't solve the problem.

What are we going to do with the fact that he was able to walk through a nexus where millions of universes collide? And what about the fact that he can comprehend the Endless. Most characters can't even comprehend them, however, he knows of thier existence. And what about the fact that he is able to access both Hell and Heaven, which are higher dimensional realms? And what about the fact that Pandora, who is equal to Phantom Stranger (relatively) was able to change the multiverse multiple times casually?
 
I suppose that you have a point.

What do you think Sandman31?
 
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