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Persona 4 reaction speed

SeiryuShin

SeiryuShin

VS Battles
Retired
160
10
can someone please cite or source where natural lightning dodging feat is coming from? In Golden when Marie calls down lightning on the group no one is shown dodging it and that's the only instance I can think of.
 
You can check in the editing history which members thst made the edits, and ask them on their message boards to reply here.
 
A6colotue apparently did stating it was natural lightning from Yu, however Yu cannot create natural lightning. Marie can however no one was shown dodging her cloud to ground lightning. Most of the zio spells are created in dungeons and in several boss cases inside temples or other structures; I cannot consider that cloud to ground lightning without word of god or some other official confirmation.
 
Okay. I will ask him to comment here.
 
Hmm, sorry, but I don't know Persona franchise, so, I don't know which stats are correct and which stats are not correct.
 
Supersonic+ speed is still correct, the reactions are more sketchy. Especially since in Arena and I believe Dancing all night they're noted weaker than the P3 users (can't use personas outside the TV dimension etc.)
 
Never mind. I have done so.

In addition, dodging lightning is not necessarily Massively Hypersonic, as you can see here.
 
I have a few gifs showing Izanagi dodging lightning being shot by Odin (No clue as to what I saved them as). One of the lightning bolts fired looks like it comes from a cloud. All of which comes from the Golden Animation.

Plus you could scale the P4 characters to Persona 3 cast seeing as they fought eachother in Persona 4 Ultimax. If memory serves me right Margeret (someone who could tango with P3 protagonist) was nervous about fighting Yu due to his friendship powers. Which may put him on the Rel/Sub Rel scale.
 
What? first off Odin is a persona itself, so any lightning he generates is not from a cloud unless otherwise shown, hence the only ones who legitly summon lightning in the series are the gods. Second the animation is not canon to the source material as it contradicts it.

Third most of the P4 cast is weaker than the P3 cast and Yu is weaker then Masato: ELizabeth one shot him once she got serious and he needed the power of ~friendship~ to keep up with her. Margaret is also weaker than Ultimax Elizabeth.
 
SeiryuShin said:
What? first off Odin is a persona itself, so any lightning he generates is not from a cloud unless otherwise shown, hence the only ones who legitly summon lightning in the series are the gods. Second the animation is not canon to the source material as it contradicts it.
Third most of the P4 cast is weaker than the P3 cast and Yu is weaker then Masato: ELizabeth one shot him once she got serious and he needed the power of ~friendship~ to keep up with her. Margaret is also weaker than Ultimax Elizabeth.
Click to expand...

The Golden Animation is the most canon thing there is mate. Infact Golden animation is just the animated version of the Golden game, which retcons the older Persona animations/games due to them not having Marie. Also director of Persona 4 worked on the golden animation you can see that on the wiki.

I only say the lightning looks legitimate is because of this shot of it. Also have you even got a source for Persona 3 characters being able to straight up beat the Persona 4 ones? Because during Ultimax there are a constant amount of stalemates present throughout which would provde scaling for both. Elizabeth was flat out nervous of fighting Yu and even discovered that this was the power she had been searching for all this time, at the very least Yu scales to Erebus.
 
Golden the animation is not canon, just like Legend of Heroes the animation is not canon or Devil Survivor 2 the animation is not canon, they are adaptations, not the original work. The First episode alone contradicts the game so that throws it being canon right out the gate.


If all the other personas do not summon cloud to ground lightning only the Gods why is Odin somehow so special he's excluded from this?


Rise straight up admits in front of Fuuko they can't summon their personas outside the TV dimension while Persona 3 users can and the party minus Yu is weaker than either Mitsuru or Akihiko. Both are inferiour to P1 and P2 so it's a moot point


Elizabeth was nervous because Yu had the same type of power she left the elevator to find, she stomped him otherwise.
 
Golden Animation is made by the creator of Persona 4 and covers the events of the Persona Golden game (which now retcons the previous titles due to them not having Marie social links etc). You have no proof to say it is non canon and this will be the last time I will speak about this, repeating myself is not something I like doing.

Not being able to summon Persona's outside of the TV dimension does not mean anything at all. And you also have no proof whatsoever to show the P4 characters being straight up weaker than P3 when there are story modes of multiple P4 characters stalemating there P3 counterparts. Here is Yu straight up beating Aigis.

Odin was the only Persona during the animation to ever use a Ziodyne spell, therefore this gives us a clue that Zio uses cloud to ground lightning.

No, not because of that. She was nervous to even fight him and lost her fooring. And that type of thing never occured with the P3 protagonist.
 
Golden Animation contradicts the game so that immediately removes it from being canon.


It means they're the weakest persona users in the series, Persona 1 users can reality warp real live towns, PErsona 2 users can warp the universe, P4 team had trouble with Magatsu Inaba :/


See above as to why the animation should be thrown out, you can keep repeating yourself you'll still be wrong.


Again because he had the power she left the Velvet Room to find. She had never experienced it before otherwise.
 
Prove Golden Animation contradicts the game...

You did not prove me wrong on when Persona 4 characters where matching P3 characters in strength,,

She only regained her composure when she knew what the power was, aside from that she completely ignored Yu's request for a rematch because she was losing her cool.
 
Guys, in the GAME when ziodyne spell is cast the thunder cloud is clearly visible and the lightning strike from it to the ground. Same with the spell Oho Ikazuchi used by Izanami. So the lightnings are real. When those spell dont hit, the characters clearly dodge it.
 
"Prove Golden Animation contradicts the game..."


The first damn episode contradicts the game, get over it.


The only real lightning was used by MArie in a cutscene.


EDIT: Akihiko even admits in Arena/Ultimax dodging bullets is about the most he can do. No one dodged Marie's lightning in the cutscene.
 
Show me the proof, saying "The first damn episode contradicts the game, get over it" is not doing anything for your case.

Akihiko can dodge bullets at most, his persona however is MHS through power scaling and avoiding Zio spells.
 
Shifting the burden of proof does nothing for you. You made the positive claim it's canon despite contradicting the original work, you prove it. The first episode contradicts their first visit to the TV dimension, it's not canon.


As already stated only the gods summon legit cloud to ground lightning and the one time it is seen in a cutscene no one dodges it.
 
SeiryuShin said:
Shifting the burden of proof does nothing for you. You made the positive claim it's canon despite contradicting the original work, you prove it. The first episode contradicts their first visit to the TV dimension, it's not canon.

As already stated only the gods summon legit cloud to ground lightning and the one time it is seen in a cutscene no one dodges it.
Click to expand...

You're the one who said the Persona 4 Golden anime is non canon, so you prove it. I proved that it's a sanctioned anime made by the creator of P4 himself (Check the wiki, too lazy to provide a link)

Persona's summon cloud lightning as shown by Odin's use of a Zio spell.
 
Austrian-Man-Meat said:
Show me the proof, saying "The first damn episode contradicts the game, get over it" is not doing anything for your case.
Akihiko can dodge bullets at most, his persona however is MHS through power scaling and avoiding Zio spells.
Click to expand...
This is even further proof the animation is non canon as it contradicts how personas are shown to be used by new teams in FES. The user has to dodge attacks, not the persona.
 
Saying how the animation is not canon because the Persona's don't work like the ones in FES makes little to no sense at all. We might as well make Persona 4 non canon seeing as non of them use a evoker.

Bottom line is, Odin uses cloud lightning in his zio spells therefore it is cloud lightning. Unless you have multiple showings of Persona's not using cloud lightning then your claim wont amount to much.
 
Except it's established in 3 they need a "trigger", not an evoker, which is what the Persona 4 team uses. False equivalence.


Bottom line is it's non canon and cannot be used as evidence of reaction speed.
 
SeiryuShin said:
Except it's established in 3 they need a "trigger", not an evoker, which is what the Persona 4 team uses. False equivalence.

Bottom line is it's non canon and cannot be used as evidence of reaction speed.
Click to expand...

You keep saying its non canon and you provide no evidence to back it up. Persona 4 Golden is literally just the game's exclusive social links and events in animated form. And it's sanctioned by the creator which is enough for proof on its own.
 
Let's all try to calm down and stay civil please.
 
You keep saying its non canon and you provide no evidence to back it up. Persona 4 Golden is literally just the game's exclusive social links and events in animated form. And it's sanctioned by the creator which is enough for proof on its own.
I already gave evidence, it contradicts the events established in the source material and mechanisms established in the source material. Do explain why an adaptation which contradicts its source material should be conisdered canon.

having the same director means nothing, Akira Toriyama approved of GT and it's non canon.
 
It contradicts events established in the original Persona 4 game because it is outdated, and the og version of the game is now retconned due to not having Marie present in it anymore. You also have not proved that the Persona 4 Golden Animation contradicts anything which happens in the Golden Game.
 
The animation contradicts the events of Golden game as well

-Transmorgification is contradicted by Arena

-events of the fights in the TV dimension do not match the events in the Golden Game

-persona mechanisms do not match established facts in the games


it's non canon.
 
Also the only thing changed from the original version was extra cutscenes involving Marie. the plot remained the same otherwise.
 
It contradicts the source material, so it's non canon. Provide proof otherwise. having the same director proves nothing when the actual material contradicts itself.
 
You basically just admitted they added filler, even further villifying it as non canon. That's why adaptations are not proof.
 
Burden of proof is shared by the both of you as far as I'm concerned. Austrian was the only one who was mannered enough to provide any so far.
 
So everything that is an adaptation of a manga or game which adds in filler is instantly non canon? Looks like we're going to have to downgrade OPM and various other series... Also of course it's going to add in content to gameplay sections, having to look at Yu pick what actions he is going to use would be boring. Also there is the fact that Animation was meant to exclusivley have its focus on the new social links present within the golden game.

Golden Animation and Game follow the direct storyline thats the proof needed for it to be canon. Infact I would say Golden game would be a more reliable source of canon to follow to be honest. The game is very ambiguous to what Yu's character is actually like and the anime actually gives us answers to the choices presented within the game, gives us a better way to gague his character,

I am done arguing now, I will just get people to see which point they find more conclusive and leave it at that.
 
I think you should make a downgrade thread for the OPM verse. The manga basically adds on filler to the web comic.

P4G Animation and Game were released after Arena was created, I doubt them using 3rd form Persona's was even a contemplated idea back then.

Alright now I am officially done.
 
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