Percy Jackson: Hello there! (0/1/0)

[Nonynho]

The water without Percy is just like, low tier. It won't do anything to Obi-Wan.

Percy's water manip is not something to ignore, i really don't know what makes you think that the wave strong enough to push Obi is suddenly something ignorable

Every blaster pointed at him is one high pressure point. He borderline solos ships full of them multiple times.

Well, usually those blaster wielders aren't remotely comparable skillwise to him, so it is hard to say "Just like ships full of blaster droids, Percy Jackson and Annabeth Chase won't do s* to Obi's defenses"

If you are more skilled than him, sometimes yeah, but generally? No numbers will beat him. Gotta think smarter not harder.

Well, it is not unimaginable to say that Annabeth and Percy aren't humiliation-level-below Obi skillwise, so should also not be unimaginable that they'll fight for any opportunity in the guy's defenses and that it isn't impossible for them to actually get it

 

[DaReaperMan]

Percy's water manip is not something to ignore, i really don't know what makes you think that the wave strong enough to push Obi is suddenly something ignorable

It is when the guy who made it that strong is suddenly flying like the world's most clumsy eagle

Well, usually those blaster wielders aren't remotely comparable skillwise to him, so it is hard to say "Just like ships full of blaster droids, Percy Jackson and Annabeth Chase won't do s* to Obi's defenses"

And he also survived the Jedi Temple at Order 66. Ya know, clones. And keep in mind "Not skilled" doesn't mean "No threat", need I remind you that many, MANY Jedi Masters died to battle droids at the battle of Geonosis? Put enough of something down and it is a threat. That's how clones died to Battle Droids despite grossly outskilling them.

Well, it is not unimaginable to say that Annabeth and Percy aren't humiliation-level-below Obi skillwise, so should also not be unimaginable that they'll fight for any opportunity in the guy's defenses and that it isn't impossible for them to actually get it

Yeah it's not like they're humiliation-tier below him, but he's still much better in combat than either. And he lasted nine straight minutes against the mother of all defense checks before coming out on top

 

[Nonynho]

"Not skilled" doesn't mean "No threat"

I haven't said so, but as Percy and Annabeth should also be stupidly more skilled than droids, say "Annabeth and Percy will have the same answer than droids do" doesn't seem really like the case

It is when the guy who made it that strong is suddenly flying like the world's most clumsy eagle

His after his water manip is executed it does not lose strength if he loses concentration, so Obi's still getting scalded by assuming such (which seems like a regular assumption for Obi, looking at it with more attention)

Yeah it's not like they're humiliation-tier below him, but he's still much better in combat than either.

Which does not immediately mean an L for them, specially because of how crazy good they are individually, being boosted by them being together because they are well familiarized with each other's game plan

And he lasted nine straight minutes against the mother of all defense checks before coming out on top

That was RotS Ani vs RotS Obi, both quite a bit better than their TCW selves (hell, both of them evolved from being stomped by Dooku to Ani beating his ass and Obi matching him)

 

[DaReaperMan]

I haven't said so, but as Percy and Annabeth should also be stupidly more skilled than droids, say "Annabeth and Percy will have the same answer than droids do" doesn't seem really like the case

And Clones are also stupidly more skilled than the droids. It doesn't stop them from dying via sheer danmaku, though. Obi-Wan lasted through both the Clone Wars and Order 66 without issues.

His after his water manip is executed it does not lose strength if he loses concentration, so Obi's still getting scalded by assuming such (which seems like a regular assumption for Obi, looking at it with more attention)

I genuinely can't recall one way or the other. And I don't feel like reading the Kane books to find out if he does anything worth noting there lol

Which does not immediately mean an L for them, specially because of how crazy good they are individually, being boosted by them being together because they are well familiarized with each other's game plan

And Obi-wan has precog and comparable combat senses to both in order to fight them. And that precog is doing the heavy lifting here. Plus, they're in a training ground, Percy has to travel quite a bit to get to water to do things like amp.

That was RotS Ani vs RotS Obi, both quite a bit better than their TCW selves (hell, both of them evolved from being stomped by Dooku to Ani beating his ass and Obi matching him)

Their skill really didn't change between TCW and RotS, between AotC and RotS? Sure. But there's a reason I can use Vader in Obi-Wan's skill section, and that's because at the literal start of the Clone Wars Kenobi is much different than the tail end of it. Like you could literally make that key of Obi-Wan like 4 different keys if you really wanted to.

Also what the hell are you talking about, Dooku's form 2 pierces Kenobi's form 3 repeatedly as it's a direct counter, and Anakin needed to amp before being able to beat Dooku lmfao

It's literally AotC Anakin and Obi-Wan<Clone Wars Anakin and Obi-Wan<RotS Anakin and Obi-Wan<Count Dooku. There's no "Comparable" here, he's just better than them in both skill and stats. Case in point.

 

[Nonynho]

Their skill really didn't change between TCW and RotS, between AotC and RotS? Sure. But there's a reason I can use Vader in Obi-Wan's skill section, and that's because at the literal start of the Clone Wars Kenobi is much different than the tail end of it. Like you could literally make that key of Obi-Wan like 4 different keys if you really wanted to.

ngl, i mixed up TCW and AotC a bit, my bad

I keep thinking and rethinking my line of thought and i see you being more and more correct actually, so i'll rest my case for now and let's see if someone more suited for Riordanverse's defense comes up

 

[DaReaperMan]

ngl, i mixed up TCW and AotC a bit, my bad

I keep thinking and rethinking my line of thought and i see you being more and more correct actually, so i'll rest my case for now and let's see if someone more suited for Riordanverse's defense comes up

Thing is I wouldn't have made the match if I thought Percy and Annabeth couldn't win, that's actually why I used both. But I also need to argue for Kenobi since that's my era of Canon and I'm the one who wrote his current profile.

That's actually the reason I used Obi-Wan and not Anakin, because Kenobi is much more of a defensive fighter so is unlikely to just fold Annabeth the moment she gets into melee range like Anakin or Dooku would.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Kanan, at the beginning of Rebels (episodes 1-2 novel), who was less skilled than TCW Obi-Wan, managed to handle a hundred blasters.

Standing in the middle of the battlefield, with a hun-dred blasters pointed at him, Kanan opened himself fully to the Force.
[Book] Star Wars Rebels: The Rebellion Begins

Alone in the middle of the battlefield, Kanan Jarrus ducked, dodged, and deflected the blaster storm directed at him. He seemed to know when and from where each bolt was coming, jumping in the air at the right moment, curving his body to the perfect angle, or slashing his sword just in time. More than a few troop-ers crumpled, recipients of shots that Kanan deflected off his blade. Without even engaging in hand-to-hand combat, this one man-this Jedi-was holding off an entire platoon of stormtroopers.
[Book] Star Wars Rebels: The Rebellion Begins

It's worth highlighting that Kanan's main form is Soresu, in which Obi-Wan is a master.

 

[Nonynho]

Well, if Percy and Annabeth can't win and Ani wouldn't play nice in a training match, maybe Ahsoka?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well, if Percy and Annabeth can't win and Ani wouldn't play nice in a training match, maybe Ahsoka?

I mean I do think they can win with Obi-Wan, like I said, wouldn't have made the match if I thought he stomped them.

Ahsoka's profile is unusably dogshit though.

 

[Nonynho]

I mean I do think they can win with Obi-Wan, like I said, wouldn't have made the match if I thought he stomped them.

I thought i saw a line where dodging and pushing 3 fronts could become hard but yeah, the last one to bypass his defense was Dooku and i'm not quite sure anymore they could play at his level more or less lol

 

[DaReaperMan]

I thought i saw a line where dodging and pushing 3 fronts could become hard but yeah, the last one to bypass his defense was Dooku and i'm not quite sure anymore they could play at his level more or less lol

Frankly that's mostly because Dooku is like, #3 of this era in both stats and skill. The only two who outright outmatch him are Yoda and Papa palps. It's difficult, not impossible, it's how Maul and Savage captured Obi-Wan despite being at a skill disadvantage with him. And then we got more Asajj and Obi-Wan flirting.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

It's literally AotC Anakin and Obi-Wan<Clone Wars Anakin and Obi-Wan<RotS Anakin and Obi-Wan<Count Dooku. There's no "Comparable" here, he's just better than them in both skill and stats. Case in point.

? ROTS Obi-Wan and Anakin are more powerful than Dooku.

Kanan, at the beginning of Rebels (episodes 1-2 novel), who was less skilled than TCW Obi-Wan, managed to handle a hundred blasters.


It's worth highlighting that Kanan's main form is Soresu, in which Obi-Wan is a master.

I would also like to point out that a Padawan can block shots from these guys:

Who can do this:

 

[DaReaperMan]

? ROTS Obi-Wan and Anakin are more powerful than Dooku.

Which is of course why Obi-Wan was unconscious mid-way through that fight. He was definitely stronger. 100%. Nope, no suspiciously Obi-Wan-shaped body under a chunk of railing because Dooku knocked his ass out.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Which is of course why Obi-Wan was unconscious mid-way through that fight. He was definitely stronger. 100%. Nope, no suspiciously Obi-Wan-shaped body under a chunk of railing because Dooku knocked his ass out.

He was caught off guard by the Force Choke and knocked out. You know, these things happen even when you're more powerful. This has happened before. Vader with Kirak. Asajj Ventress lost to Obi-Wan and Anakin, and quickly/by surprise used Force Choke on both of them and dominated them, etc.

Furthermore, at the end of ROTS, Obi-Wan faced Anakin and was equal to him, even though this Anakin was already several ">" above the Anakin who defeated Dooku.

 

[DaReaperMan]

He was caught off guard by the Force Choke and knocked out. You know, these things happen even when you're more powerful. This has happened before. Vader with Kirak. Asajj Ventress lost to Obi-Wan and Anakin, and quickly/by surprise used Force Choke on both of them and dominated them, etc.

He has precognition. There is no off-guard lmfao

Furthermore, at the end of ROTS, Obi-Wan faced Anakin and was equal to him, even though this Anakin was already several ">" above the Anakin who defeated Dooku.

You can defeat a guy stronger than you by being skilled enough, just ask General "Gungan Victim" Grievous. Except wait, Anakin's ass just got Dooku to make an opening, which is what happens when Makashi is forced to use more brute force.

 

[DaReaperMan]

For the record, I actually do think that the ending of RotS is basically the start of Empire Era, hence why I said Dooku was #3 of his era. I don't legit think that Knightfall Anakin or end of RotS Obi-Wan are weaker than him, because that puts him literally Papa Palps=>Dooku which is just not true at all lmfao

 

[Phsccarvalho]

He has precognition. There is no off-guard lmfao

If both have it, then it "cancels out" each other. Furthermore, precognition isn't infallible, otherwise no Jedi would have died in Order 66. Some did die even though there were six clones, like Tapal.

You can defeat a guy stronger than you by being skilled enough, just ask General "Gungan Victim" Grievous. Except wait, Anakin's ass just got Dooku to make an opening, which is what happens when Makashi is forced to use more brute force.

You're forgetting that the fight in canon is simpler. There's not even any relevance to the lightsaber forms in canon during this fight.

It's simply this: Anakin surpasses Dooku's power and dominates him, Anakin becomes even more powerful after becoming Sidious' apprentice, and then becomes even stronger during the massacre on Mustafar, and yet Obi-Wan matches him in lightsaber combat and Force power.

It's very simple, all the scans are already on the profiles and I already accept it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

If both have it, then it "cancels out" each other. Furthermore, precognition isn't infallible, otherwise no Jedi would have died in Order 66. Some did die even though there were six clones, like Tapal.

Most Jedi who died to Order 66 sucked, like Ki Adi Mundi!

You're forgetting that the fight in canon is simpler. There's not even any relevance to the lightsaber forms in canon during this fight.

It's simply this: Anakin surpasses Dooku's power and dominates him,

So where's this one stated? And why would it take precedence over what we see on screen? Which is that Dooku held his own until he made literally one mistake.

Anakin becomes even more powerful after becoming Sidious' apprentice, and then becomes even stronger during the massacre on Mustafar, and yet Obi-Wan matches him in lightsaber combat and Force power.

It's very simple, all the scans are already on the profiles and I already accept it.

And yet Obi-Wan has none of these statements. Interesting how that works, huh?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

So where's this one stated?

And yet Obi-Wan has none of these statements. Interesting how that works, huh?

All the scans are on the profiles. Like, they all talk about Anakin's growth and they all say that Obi-Wan and Anakin were equals on Mustafar. One of the scans even says they were equal in strength and skill.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Sounds like something you gotta put on Anakin's profile, back to the CRT pits for you!

All the scans are on the profiles. Like, they all talk about Anakin's growth and they all say that Obi-Wan and Anakin were equals on Mustafar. One of the scans even says they were equal in strength and skill.

Yeah but Obi-Wan has no statements of growth!

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Sounds like something you gotta put on Anakin's profile, back to the CRT pits for you!

I was going to do Vader first. But I was stopped by the UES thread. But I'll probably come back to the CRT with a general rework.

Yeah but Obi-Wan has no statements of growth!

It's more of an implicit thing, it's common sense seeing that Anakin only got stronger. If we didn't have extra material, we wouldn't have any direct statement that Obi-Wan (OWK) gained amplification by thinking about Luke and Leia and became strong enough to defeat Vader in OWK.

Jedi amplifications are more implicit than those of the dark side.

But since I also don't like using "common sense" because I think it's a terrible argument,

You can use the thing about leaving fear behind.

According to "Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith Read-Along Storybook," Obi-Wan left fear behind when facing Grievous. And we've already seen that "leaving fear behind" gives Jedi a good amplification.

We see this with Kanan vs. GI and Cere vs. Vader.

 

[Jin2188]

Gonna come back to this later, seems like a really interesting matchup. Pretty close too, at least a lot closer than most of my matchups lmao.

I do wonder if maybe this could do something though:

• Limited Illusion Creation, Reality Warping, and Perception Manipulation (Percy can control the Mist to create illusions, such as when he made it appear to mortals that a presidential motorcade was passing by. The Mist creates imagined items in the eyes of mortals to make them perceive supernatural occurrences in a way they can comprehend)

(probably not cause of extrasensory perception but worth a shot)

 

[Phsccarvalho]

He has precognition. There is no off-guard lmfao

I'm just mentioning this out of curiosity since it's not canon.

Not exactly "low guard," but in Legends, the fact that the force choke was performed so suddenly was also a factor.

ROTS junior novel

 

[DaReaperMan]

Gonna come back to this later, seems like a really interesting matchup. Pretty close too, at least a lot closer than most of my matchups lmao.

I mostly know what I'm doing, 52K post privilege, amiright?

I do wonder if maybe this could do something though:

(probably not cause of extrasensory perception but worth a shot)

Yeah Obi-Wan could literally close his eyes and deal with that. Literally.

 

[Jin2188]

Yeah Obi-Wan could literally close his eyes and deal with that. Literally.

Fair enough lmao. Just spitballing right now.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also, I love how there's been 0 skill debate whatsoever because both of their skill is for the most part on their profiles lmfao

And the only weakness on either side that may come into play is Percy being hot-headed because Obi-Wan talks more shit than a League of Legends player in one of the sexiest voices I've ever heard from an animated character

 

[Nonynho]

I do wonder if maybe this could do something though:

the mist affects regular mortals only, which due to verse equalization shouldn't be the case for Obi, or else Anaklusmos wouldn't be hurting him

 

[Jin2188]

bump

 

[Doggo]

Kenobi FRA

 

[Nonynho]

Welp, if votes are a thing here, i'll vote the negotiator FRA

 

[Jin2188]

I really don't get why people are dismissing the water manip as not a big deal. Yeah, this is a friendly spar, so obviously he's not gonna kill Kenobi with it, but it's still 4.8 Gigatons of pure striking force. And yeah, the LS is dogshit, but he doesn't need to restrain Kenobi to inhibit him, he can just toss him around in the air with very little he can really do about it, while also using the water to position Annabeth to attack blind spots or hit him while he's distracted. Precog and ESP doesn't mean he's omniscient, it's still plenty possible to catch him off guard.

For those reasons, I think I'll vote for Percy and Annabeth.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I really don't get why people are dismissing the water manip as not a big deal. Yeah, this is a friendly spar, so obviously he's not gonna kill Kenobi with it, but it's still 4.8 Gigatons of pure striking force.

But like, what exactly is the size? If it's not something colossal, it could be deflected with a Force Barrier. And if it's underwater, it could create a Force Orb.

Precog and ESP doesn't mean he's omniscient, it's still plenty possible to catch him off guard.

He also has 360-degree vision.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I really don't get why people are dismissing the water manip as not a big deal. Yeah, this is a friendly spar, so obviously he's not gonna kill Kenobi with it, but it's still 4.8 Gigatons of pure striking force. And yeah, the LS is dogshit, but he doesn't need to restrain Kenobi to inhibit him, he can just toss him around in the air with very little he can really do about it, while also using the water to position Annabeth to attack blind spots or hit him while he's distracted. Precog and ESP doesn't mean he's omniscient, it's still plenty possible to catch him off guard.

I don't think you quite get on how big a 60.47x gap is. Like, Percy could accidentally murder Kenobi with that shit if he went even a fourth of the force. So I doubt Percy is actually going to use his water at the kind of force to launch Obi-wan so as to not accidentally maim.

Also if Percy did that, that's a good way to get Obi-Wan to slam him around like Sans. Or get Annabeth caught in the crossfire.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Furthermore, if Obi-Wan tried to manipulate the water that Percy manipulated, wouldn't he have priority? Not only because of the LS, but also because Telekinesis via Force + Matter hax.

Theoretically, if Percy created a large wave, couldn't Obi-Wan use Telekinesis to lower it again?

 

[Jin2188]

I don't think you quite get on how big a 60.47x gap is. Like, Percy could accidentally murder Kenobi with that shit if he went even a fourth of the force. So I doubt Percy is actually going to use his water at the kind of force to launch Obi-wan so as to not accidentally maim.

Percy has really good control over his water powers though. Like, I'd have to read the books again to give specific examples, but if he's able to control the water for positioning purposes at all, I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to use it to launch someone without hurting them.

Also if Percy did that, that's a good way to get Obi-Wan to slam him around like Sans. Or get Annabeth caught in the crossfire.

While he's being sent flying through the air, disoriented as all hell from spinning around like clothes in a washing machine?

Furthermore, if Obi-Wan tried to manipulate the water that Percy manipulated, wouldn't he have priority? Not only because of the LS, but also because Telekinesis via Force + Matter hax.

Theoretically, if Percy created a large wave, couldn't Obi-Wan use Telekinesis to lower it again?

He doesn't have to make a wave though. He can shoot it out as a jet to launch Obi-Wan into the air, and that's SS, not LS, so Telekinesis isn't gonna help him there.

Also, if he does try to control the water with Telekinesis, that's as good an opportunity as any for Annabeth to get a knife to his neck and end the fight right there.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Percy has really good control over his water powers though. Like, I'd have to read the books again to give specific examples, but if he's able to control the water for positioning purposes at all, I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to use it to launch someone without hurting them.

Because, as you say later, that's a Striking Strength thing. We're talking about a Percy who 1) Needs to go for a HEAVY jog to even get to water in the first place, and 2) Considers it a FRIENDLY SPAR. He's not particularly trying to hurt Obi-Wan any more than Obi-Wan is trying to hurt them, sure he's gonna try to win, but why even risk it? He mostly knocks people on their ass or back with water, not launch them several meters. And in the moments he does do the latter, it's not friendly in the slightest.

While he's being sent flying through the air, disoriented as all hell from spinning around like clothes in a washing machine?

He could use his force senses after falling into the oceans of Kamino after a short scuffle with Grievous to get on an oceanic ride. He'll be perfectly able to do so here.

Also, if he does try to control the water with Telekinesis, that's as good an opportunity as any for Annabeth to get a knife to his neck and end the fight right there.

It really isn't. Like, the entire thread it's been established that Annabeth's invisibility does not help her at all

 

[Phsccarvalho]

He doesn't have to make a wave though. He can shoot it out as a jet to launch Obi-Wan into the air, and that's SS, not LS, so Telekinesis isn't gonna help him there.

Also, if he does try to control the water with Telekinesis, that's as good an opportunity as any for Annabeth to get a knife to his neck and end the fight right there.

A jet of water coming from below? Because if it's from the front, a force barrier can provide 360-degree protection.

That is, Obi-Wan can use teleportation with one hand and block Ann with the other. He will sense/see her from afar.