- 26,325
- 3,114
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Pennywise vs Avatar of Calamity
- Thread starter Overlord775
- Start date
- 9,755
- 4,392
- 40,459
- 12,939
I need to finish IT sooner rather than later to see if 1-A is legit, tbh.
- 28,212
- 1,741
- 40,459
- 12,939
I mean, I brought the book with me on the cruise for a reason. I wanna read it anyway
- 9,755
- 4,392
The info that makes Pennywise and Maturin 1-A doesn't just come from IT. It also comes from the last 2-3 DT books.
Just FYI.
Just FYI.
- 26,325
- 3,114
- 9,755
- 4,392
- 14,195
- 2,574
I have no idea what's going on. Why is madness hax op on AoC?
- 9,755
- 4,392
I don't know anything about the AoC other than "this character is supposedly really broken"
So someone else should elaborate on that.
So someone else should elaborate on that.
- 19,685
- 10,358
from what I know, AoC can read your mind passively and essentially copy your powers instantly. At least that's what I know of with this thing.
- 26,325
- 3,114
- Thread starter
- #15
MrKingOfNegativity said:
@DMUA
- 19,685
- 10,358
only when you make eye contact with Pennywise right?
- 9,755
- 4,392
Passive mind reading actually just flatout didn't work on Penny until the Losers were amped by beings above True It's weight class, so I don't see that working too well here either.
Powercopying is...not really that helpful? You're basically just copying telepathy, really good illusion casting, shapeshifting that can actually work against you instead of helping you, and teleportation.
Powercopying is...not really that helpful? You're basically just copying telepathy, really good illusion casting, shapeshifting that can actually work against you instead of helping you, and teleportation.
- 14,195
- 2,574
She's a bit nerfed since her prime back in 2018.
Her Power Drain is no longer a thing, though absorbing memories and power copying still has basically the same result + leaves the victims dead. That's assuming though that Pennywise gets touched by hair threads (given she was covering the Earth, its a reasonable assumption).
Even then, if he were to avoid that. He would still have to survive being attacked by False versions of Sayaka, Mami, and Kyoko. All of which also have the abilities of everyone in the the five magical girls in each one. Then he has to survive her other passive abilities and finally defeat her before she destroys the multiverse.
Her Power Drain is no longer a thing, though absorbing memories and power copying still has basically the same result + leaves the victims dead. That's assuming though that Pennywise gets touched by hair threads (given she was covering the Earth, its a reasonable assumption).
Even then, if he were to avoid that. He would still have to survive being attacked by False versions of Sayaka, Mami, and Kyoko. All of which also have the abilities of everyone in the the five magical girls in each one. Then he has to survive her other passive abilities and finally defeat her before she destroys the multiverse.
- 9,755
- 4,392
The main things Pennywise has are...
Illusions that trick all five senses and can fool telepaths, as well as deal real-life damage.
Mindhax that works on the entire population of Derry, which is a Bangor, Maine analogue. (A quick Google search told me Bangor has roughly 33,000+ people in it)
Low high Regenerationn.
Madness hax that drives you insane to the point of killing you. Which is passive, and comes from looking into the being's eyes...which show you its true 1-A form in all of its splendor.
I also seem to have forgotten to mention this before now, but if you die from looking into the Deadlights, its true form will assimilate your mind and soul (or something like that) into itself. Since It apparently did exactly that to one of the characters after she saw its true form.
Illusions that trick all five senses and can fool telepaths, as well as deal real-life damage.
Mindhax that works on the entire population of Derry, which is a Bangor, Maine analogue. (A quick Google search told me Bangor has roughly 33,000+ people in it)
Low high Regenerationn.
Madness hax that drives you insane to the point of killing you. Which is passive, and comes from looking into the being's eyes...which show you its true 1-A form in all of its splendor.
I also seem to have forgotten to mention this before now, but if you die from looking into the Deadlights, its true form will assimilate your mind and soul (or something like that) into itself. Since It apparently did exactly that to one of the characters after she saw its true form.
- 9,755
- 4,392
Also...
"He would still have to survive being attacked by False versions of Sayaka, Mami, and Kyoko."
>more than one being fighting the avatar at once.
Ohhhhh boy.
"He would still have to survive being attacked by False versions of Sayaka, Mami, and Kyoko."
>more than one being fighting the avatar at once.
Ohhhhh boy.
- 14,195
- 2,574
AoC doesn't have the five senses from what I know. And her Illusions also hurt I guess.
Her Memory Manip / Mind Manipulation affected everyone on the Earth, would grow stronger further on.
While AoC's regen is lower, she has Kyubey's Absolute Resurrection so its not much of a concern.
^ She should also have Information Analysis and quite literally the abilities of every magical girl on Earth, I'm sure Precog would warn her about that.
What happens when multiple bodies fight Pennywise at once?
Her Memory Manip / Mind Manipulation affected everyone on the Earth, would grow stronger further on.
While AoC's regen is lower, she has Kyubey's Absolute Resurrection so its not much of a concern.
^ She should also have Information Analysis and quite literally the abilities of every magical girl on Earth, I'm sure Precog would warn her about that.
What happens when multiple bodies fight Pennywise at once?
- 9,755
- 4,392
Let me save myself some time by copy-pasting what I said in another thread. (This is going to be long, so bear with me. I'll leave a TL;DR at the bottom.)
I'm going to need to explain some things that are established in the book, the first being that Pennywise's avatar follows the rules of the shape it inhabits:
This causes dumb moments like the werewolf form getting badly hurt by silver, among other things, but that's not what's important.
The second thing established is that it can cause multiple beings to perceive it as multiple different shapes at once:
These two characters were telepathically linked, so each of them started seeing bits of what the other was perceiving. We'll get back to that in a moment.
Not only can it appear as multiple things to multiple beings, it can also cause multiple beings to perceive it doing multiple different things at once, effectively allowing it to perform multiple actions at the same time:
As you can probably tell, this "being/doing multiple things when multiple people are around" is also relatively in-character and it does this multiple times. But anyway...
While not exactly tested in-verse, going by the shape-inhabiting rules of Pennywise's avatar and the fact that two people perceiving it apparently alters reality so that it's capable of taking multiple different shapes and doing multiple different things (and even being in two places at once, judging from the last set of quotes), the following conclusions can be drawn:
Doing anything meaningful to Its avatar could be a problem because of this, especially with so many characters perceiving it at once. It's even elaborated upon that the Losers were eventually able to harm it (or at least hinder it) because their telepathic link allowed them all to perceive it as one thing, "trapping" it in one form. If they didn't have this link, it could have appeared as a different shape to each of them, at once.
I'm going to need to explain some things that are established in the book, the first being that Pennywise's avatar follows the rules of the shape it inhabits:
| When It had burst up into the house on Neibolt Street, meaning to kill them all, vaguely uneasy that It had not been able to do so already (and surely that unease had been the first new thing), something had happened which was totally unexpected, utterly unthought of, and there had been pain, pain, great roaring pain all through the shape it had taken, and for one moment there had also been fear, because the only thing It had in common with the stupid old Turtle and the cosmology of the macroverse outside the puny egg of this universe was just this: all living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit. For the first time It realized that perhaps Its ability to change Its shapes might work against It as well as for It. | ||
~ IT |
The second thing established is that it can cause multiple beings to perceive it as multiple different shapes at once:
| Richie chanced a glance behind him as he flung himself onto the package carrier and saw the Werewolf crossing the lawn toward them, less than twenty feet away now. Blood and slobber mixed on its high-school jacket. White bone gleamed through its pelt about the right temple. There were white smudges of sneezing powder on the sides of its nose. And Richie saw two other things which seemed to complete the horror. There was no zipper on the thing's jacket; instead there were big fluffy orange buttons, like pompoms. | ||
~ IT |
| So once again Bill Denbrough found himself racing to beat the devil, only now the devil was a hideously grinning clown whose face sweated white greasepaint, whose mouth curved up in a leering red vampire smile, whose eyes were bright silver coins. A clown who was, for some lunatic reason, wearing a Derry High School jacket over its silvery suit with the orange ruff and the orange pompom buttons. | ||
~ IT |
Not only can it appear as multiple things to multiple beings, it can also cause multiple beings to perceive it doing multiple different things at once, effectively allowing it to perform multiple actions at the same time:
Chris Unwin went to the railing and looked over. He saw Hagarty first, sliding and clawing his way down the weedy, trash-littered embankment to the water. Then he saw the clown. The clown was dragging Adrian out on the far side with one arm; its balloons were in its other hand. Adrian was dripping wet, choking, moaning. The clown twisted its head and grinned up at Chris. Chris said he saw its shining silver eyes and its bared teeth—great big teeth, he said. "Like the lion in the circus, man," he said. "I mean, they were that big." Then, he said, he saw the clown shove one of Adrian Mellon's arms back so it lay over his head. "Then what, Chris?" Boutillier said. He was bored with this part. Fairytales had bored him since the age of eight on. "I dunno," Chris said. "That was when Steve grabbed me and hauled me into the car. But . . . I think it bit into his armpit." He looked up at them again, uncertain now. "I think that's what it did. Bit into his armpit. "Like it wanted to eat him, man. Like it wanted to eat his heart." | ||
~ IT |
No, Hagarty said when he was presented with Chris Unwin's story in the form of questions. The clown did not drag Ade up on the far bank, at least not that he saw—and he would grant that he had been something less than a disinterested observer by that point; by that point he had been out of his ******* mind. The clown, he said, was standing near the far bank with Adrian's dripping body clutched in its arms. Ade's right arm was stuck stiffly out behind the clown's head, and the clown's face was indeed in Ade's right armpit, but it was not biting: it was smiling. Hagarty could see it looking out from beneath Ade's arm and smiling. The clown's arms tightened, and Hagarty heard ribs splinter. Ade shrieked. "Float with us, Don," the clown said out of its grinning red mouth, and then pointed with one of its white-gloved hands under the bridge. Balloons floated against the underside of the bridge—not a dozen or a dozen dozens but thousands, red and blue and green and yellow, and printed on the side of each was I ƒÆÖ DERRY! "Well now, that surely does sound like a lot of balloons," Reeves said, and tipped Harold Gardener another wink. "I know how it sounds," Hagarty reiterated in the same dreary voice. | ||
~ IT |
| "Oh, give me a break!" Boutillier roared, throwing up his hands, "They killed him! They didn't just throw him over the side—Garton had a switchblade. Mellon was stabbed seven times, including once in the left lung and twice in the testicles. The wounds match the blade. Four of his ribs were broken—Dubay did that, bear-hugging him. He was bitten, all right. There were bites on his arms, his left cheek, his neck. I think that was Unwin and Garton, although we've only got one clear match, and that one's probably not clear enough to stand up in court. And so all right, there was a big chunk of meat gone from his right armpit, so what? One of them really liked to bite. Probably even got himself a pretty good bone-on while he was doing it. I'm betting Garton, although we'll never prove it. And Mellon's earlobe was gone." | ||
~ IT |
While not exactly tested in-verse, going by the shape-inhabiting rules of Pennywise's avatar and the fact that two people perceiving it apparently alters reality so that it's capable of taking multiple different shapes and doing multiple different things (and even being in two places at once, judging from the last set of quotes), the following conclusions can be drawn:
- If two entities are observing it in a combat scenario, it can be in two places at once and effectively circumvent what's thrown at it.
- If two entities are observing it, an attack on it that actually lands is going to have two different effects on two different shapes, and thereby...actually, I dunno exactly what this entails, but the likeliest thing is that it just won't work the way it's supposed to.
Doing anything meaningful to Its avatar could be a problem because of this, especially with so many characters perceiving it at once. It's even elaborated upon that the Losers were eventually able to harm it (or at least hinder it) because their telepathic link allowed them all to perceive it as one thing, "trapping" it in one form. If they didn't have this link, it could have appeared as a different shape to each of them, at once.
- 14,195
- 2,574
Well the issue is that they're all apart of the AoC's hive mind. Hence why we don't have seperate character pages and they all have the same abilities / memories.
- 9,755
- 4,392
I assumed the "1-A mind in a 3-D body" crap that everyone's spewing would be the justification for that.
- 9,755
- 4,392
Well...that's probably bad for Pennywise then.SomebodyData said:
Although at that point, the 1-A madness hax that everyone keeps yelling about becomes an issue, because it's passive here. If any of them so much as glance into Penny's eyes (assuming the AoC can see everything the False characters see), that's pretty much the end right there.
- 14,195
- 2,574
Well, if that won't work, then doesn't he get done by the Falselings' Time Stop + anything from Sealing to Binding (Power Null)?
- 9,755
- 4,392
That depends on whether or not the AoC sees everything all of the Falselings see.
If yes, then yeah. But in that scenario, there's nothing stopping its true form from sending another avatar in its place, and considering there's a lot of evidence to suggest that it would have done so with the Losers if they hadn't badly hurt its true form during the Ritual of Chud beforehand, I would say that's likely.
Although by that point, it's a matter of "how many times does the avatar die before 1-A madness hax or 2-A destruction happens", and that's...yeah, I dunno what the conclusion of that would be.
If yes, then yeah. But in that scenario, there's nothing stopping its true form from sending another avatar in its place, and considering there's a lot of evidence to suggest that it would have done so with the Losers if they hadn't badly hurt its true form during the Ritual of Chud beforehand, I would say that's likely.
Although by that point, it's a matter of "how many times does the avatar die before 1-A madness hax or 2-A destruction happens", and that's...yeah, I dunno what the conclusion of that would be.
- 14,195
- 2,574
AoC probably does see everything they see. But do eye sockets count? They don't have actual eyes.
If her hair tentacles expand beyond the Earth, I doubt Pennywise would manage to even get on the planet without issue either. I'm also not sure if the true form would even send a second avatar if the first one is restricted rather than destroyed?
If her hair tentacles expand beyond the Earth, I doubt Pennywise would manage to even get on the planet without issue either. I'm also not sure if the true form would even send a second avatar if the first one is restricted rather than destroyed?
- 9,755
- 4,392
Well, it's more about perception as a whole than actual sight, anyway.
If the first avatar is restricted or something, then no, I doubt it. I was more referring to scenarios where they succeed in killing it somehow.
If the first avatar is restricted or something, then no, I doubt it. I was more referring to scenarios where they succeed in killing it somehow.
- 14,195
- 2,574
By perception, do you mean visual or extrasensory?
If its extrasensory, then yeah AoC probably gets rekt but it wouldn't make sense to me if it were somehow restricted to his eyes, unless I'm missing something.
Though between that and the other passives on AoC's profile, not sure the battle would get to that point either.
EDIT:
"It is sensitive to psychic energy, so collective belief and courage can overcome it. "
Is this something that should come up, given AoC has the collective memories and emotions of the entire world?
If its extrasensory, then yeah AoC probably gets rekt but it wouldn't make sense to me if it were somehow restricted to his eyes, unless I'm missing something.
Though between that and the other passives on AoC's profile, not sure the battle would get to that point either.
EDIT:
"It is sensitive to psychic energy, so collective belief and courage can overcome it. "
Is this something that should come up, given AoC has the collective memories and emotions of the entire world?
- 26,325
- 3,114
- Thread starter
- #36
That psychic energy was powered up by a 1-A stronger than True Pennywise
- 14,195
- 2,574
That... makes it sound not like a weakness. Unless you mean he was initially defeated by the 1-A psychic energy, but he can be affected by beings below that?
- 9,755
- 4,392
It's...difficult to explain, and that thing on the weakness page also comes from a really long time ago (read: "before I joined" long time ago), so it's extremely dated.
It may be referring to the whole "the collective belief and combined perception of the children allowed them to force it into a singular shape" thing, in which case, that also required them to be telepathically linked as I said before.
Or it may be referring to the Ritual of Chud, where they had to fight its true form in a psychic battle of wills in order to overcome it. In which case their "collective courage and belief" allowed god tiers above Pennywise's caliber to work through them and grant them power.
Either way, it's kind of inaccurate and lacks a lot of context, so I probably should have deleted it when I was upgrading the page.
It may be referring to the whole "the collective belief and combined perception of the children allowed them to force it into a singular shape" thing, in which case, that also required them to be telepathically linked as I said before.
Or it may be referring to the Ritual of Chud, where they had to fight its true form in a psychic battle of wills in order to overcome it. In which case their "collective courage and belief" allowed god tiers above Pennywise's caliber to work through them and grant them power.
Either way, it's kind of inaccurate and lacks a lot of context, so I probably should have deleted it when I was upgrading the page.
- 24,183
- 3,936
Pennywise FRA
- 24,183
- 3,936
Going by the IT book alone, Pennywise is Low 2-C at most.The real cal howard said:
The turtle (Who Pennywise exists on the same level as) has a solid 1-A feat in a different book
