Penny Polendina vs Ralts

[Random-Helper323]

Trace would probably copy Penny's immunity to electricity, but I'm not sure what else. It can copy physical characteristics like Rough Skin, Multiscale and Rock Head, but it doesn't copy typing or moves. The maiden powers and aura are power ups similar to boosting moves or mega evolution, and her robotic nature is like a steel typing. That's just my thoughts though.

 

[Peppersalt43]

So starters, Penny still has the AP and skill advantage although Ralts has away to reduce stats. Idk how Trace is gonna interact with Penny's powers here. It might give Ralts Maiden Powers or it might not do anything at all depending on what would be considered equivalent to a Pokemon ability. But besides Trace, moves such as Growl and Disarming Voice which play off the opponents emotions are probably gonna be effective on Penny, also Destiny Bond is a good way to cause incon if Ralts is about to faint.

So, are you voting yet or are you waiting for further clarification?

 

[Peppersalt43]

Uh, bump

 

[koopa3144]

So, are you voting yet or are you waiting for further clarification?

I'm leaning towards Ralts rn but I'll wait for more arguments.

 

[Imaginym]

I'm leaning towards Ralts rn but I'll wait for more arguments.

Any reason why?

 

[Peppersalt43]

Uh, bump

 

[koopa3144]

Any reason why?

Penny doesn't really have any counters to things like the emotional-based stat reductions, being put to sleep with hypnosis, or Ralts amping their speed with double team. It can also use Destiny Bond to cause incon if it gets put on the back foot.

 

[Imaginym]

Penny doesn't really have any counters to things like the emotional-based stat reductions, being put to sleep with hypnosis, or Ralts amping their speed with double team. It can also use Destiny Bond to cause incon if it gets put on the back foot.

Ahhh.
Although, IDK if they're in-character.

Truthfully, I've procrastinated analyzing this matchup because lazy, but may as well do so now.

Pokedex information about Ralts that may be relevant:

Ruby	Ralts senses the emotions of people using the horns on its head. This Pokémon rarely appears before people. But when it does, it draws closer if it senses that the person has a positive disposition.

Sapphire	Ralts has the ability to sense the emotions of people. If its trainer is in a cheerful mood, this Pokémon grows cheerful and joyous in the same way.

Emerald	A Ralts has the power to sense the emotions of people and Pokémon with the horns on its head. It takes cover if it senses any hostility.
FireRed/LeafGreen	It is highly attuned to the emotions of people and Pokémon. It hides if it senses hostility.

Platinum	If its horns capture the warm feelings of people or Pokémon, its body warms up slightly.

Legends: Arceus	Tends to prefer people with a chipper disposition to those who are gloomy, but it has shown no discrimination with regard to age or gender. Needs more research.

Scarlet	The horns on its head provide a strong power that enables it to sense people’s emotions.

Honestly, underdetailed compared to the rest of its evolutionary line. Favoritism much, developers?

Anyway, this brings up the question of: What is Penny's disposition like?

Also, IIRC, SBA gives combatants mutual hostility, which, if so, would mean Ralts would be inclined to hide from her, despite being hostile, so it'd probably try to fight remotely, or keep distance between the two of them.
Telekinesis & Teleportation are especially helpful for this.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump, lets continue the discussion

 

[Peppersalt43]

Uh, bump

 

[Imaginym]

Ahhh.
Although, IDK if they're in-character.

Truthfully, I've procrastinated analyzing this matchup because lazy, but may as well do so now.

Pokedex information about Ralts that may be relevant:

Ruby	Ralts senses the emotions of people using the horns on its head. This Pokémon rarely appears before people. But when it does, it draws closer if it senses that the person has a positive disposition.

Sapphire	Ralts has the ability to sense the emotions of people. If its trainer is in a cheerful mood, this Pokémon grows cheerful and joyous in the same way.

Emerald	A Ralts has the power to sense the emotions of people and Pokémon with the horns on its head. It takes cover if it senses any hostility.
FireRed/LeafGreen	It is highly attuned to the emotions of people and Pokémon. It hides if it senses hostility.

Platinum	If its horns capture the warm feelings of people or Pokémon, its body warms up slightly.

Legends: Arceus	Tends to prefer people with a chipper disposition to those who are gloomy, but it has shown no discrimination with regard to age or gender. Needs more research.

Scarlet	The horns on its head provide a strong power that enables it to sense people’s emotions.

Honestly, underdetailed compared to the rest of its evolutionary line. Favoritism much, developers?

Anyway, this brings up the question of: What is Penny's disposition like?

Also, IIRC, SBA gives combatants mutual hostility, which, if so, would mean Ralts would be inclined to hide from her, despite being hostile, so it'd probably try to fight remotely, or keep distance between the two of them.
Telekinesis & Teleportation are especially helpful for this.

Reposting this for context. Maybe that'll help people enter into the debate.

 

[Peppersalt43]

thanks

 

[Peppersalt43]

Anyway, bump

 

[koopa3144]

If there are no counterarguments, I think I'm gonna lock in my vote for Ralts here at high-diff. While Penny is more skilled Ralts has more versatility with its moves. It can weaken Penny to deal with her AP advantage and use Double Team to raise its evasiveness to avoid getting hit. If it gets lucky with the Confusion chances, Penny is gonna be confused hitting herself a lot. Ralts can also use Hypnosis to put Penny to sleep for a while and can use the time she spends asleep to deal damage or heal by draining her with Draining Kiss. Overall, if Ralts plays its cards right, it can avoid getting hit while weakening Penny until it wins but that does require a bit of luck but I do see Ralts taking this more often than not right now.

 

[Imaginym]

If there are no counterarguments, I think I'm gonna lock in my vote for Ralts here at high-diff. While Penny is more skilled Ralts has more versatility with its moves. It can weaken Penny to deal with her AP advantage and use Double Team to raise its evasiveness to avoid getting hit. If it gets lucky with the Confusion chances, Penny is gonna be confused hitting herself a lot. Ralts can also use Hypnosis to put Penny to sleep for a while and can use the time she spends asleep to deal damage or heal by draining her with Draining Kiss. Overall, if Ralts plays its cards right, it can avoid getting hit while weakening Penny until it wins but that does require a bit of luck but I do see Ralts taking this more often than not right now.

Well, I did bring up some stuff that I thought may be relevant:

Pokedex information about Ralts that may be relevant:

Spoiler: Pokedex entries

Ruby	Ralts senses the emotions of people using the horns on its head. This Pokémon rarely appears before people. But when it does, it draws closer if it senses that the person has a positive disposition.

Sapphire	Ralts has the ability to sense the emotions of people. If its trainer is in a cheerful mood, this Pokémon grows cheerful and joyous in the same way.

Emerald	A Ralts has the power to sense the emotions of people and Pokémon with the horns on its head. It takes cover if it senses any hostility.
FireRed/LeafGreen	It is highly attuned to the emotions of people and Pokémon. It hides if it senses hostility.

Platinum	If its horns capture the warm feelings of people or Pokémon, its body warms up slightly.

Legends: Arceus	Tends to prefer people with a chipper disposition to those who are gloomy, but it has shown no discrimination with regard to age or gender. Needs more research.

Scarlet	The horns on its head provide a strong power that enables it to sense people’s emotions.

Honestly, underdetailed compared to the rest of its evolutionary line. Favoritism much, developers?

Anyway, this brings up the question of: What is Penny's disposition like?

Also, IIRC, SBA gives combatants mutual hostility, which, if so, would mean Ralts would be inclined to hide from her, despite being hostile, so it'd probably try to fight remotely, or keep distance between the two of them.
Telekinesis & Teleportation are especially helpful for this.

Draining Kiss seems OoC since it's a contact move, assuming Penny has a hostile disposition, which seems plausible given SBA.
MAYBE if Penny closes the distance, but I doubt Ralts would be the one to do so, given its behaviour of avoiding hostility specifically.

Also, the move Confusion only has a 10% chance of inflicting the Confusion status in gameplay, which, originally had a 1 in 2 chance of making the affected hit themself, & in more recent games, only a 1 in 3 chance. Not reliable, although, even if they aren't hitting themself, if Penny is at all impeded by a supposed stupefication, that would be helpful.

But to its credit, staying away from the opponent probably will be beneficial, & its behaviour supports this.

 

[koopa3144]

Draining Kiss seems OoC since it's a contact move, assuming Penny has a hostile disposition, which seems plausible given SBA.
MAYBE if Penny closes the distance, but I doubt Ralts would be the one to do so, given its behaviour of avoiding hostility specifically.

I think it hiding if it senses hostility is only a thing out of battle cause if it wasn't, wild Ralts would just run from battles.

 

[Imaginym]

I think it hiding if it senses hostility is only a thing out of battle cause if it wasn't, wild Ralts would just run from battles.

SBA prevents combatants running away, but they're still in-character. If it wants to keep its distance from sensed hostility out of battle, I'd assume it'd do so in-battle, too.

Also, Pokemon hasn't had mons that flee from battle since Gen 2 other than Roaming Legendaries (Where it's their whole gimmick & multiple of them have statements about being fast & racing across the land.), Pokemon in the Safari Zone, & Pokemon that use Teleport, which, Abra aside, can be chalked up to the random AI oftentimes, & is also a move not the action of fleeing.

By Gen 3, Pokemon fleeing from battle was, outside of Roamers & Safari mons, not a thing any more. It's hardly been a thing outside of Gen 2 in the main games, other than for Roamers & Safari Mons, where it's a gimmick.

Ergo, wild Ralts don't flee in the games because wild Pokemon that flee are used as a gimmick in the game designs in Gen 3 onwards, rather than because fleeing is meant to be portrayed as OoC for Ralts in battle.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump, lets continue the discussion

 

[Peppersalt43]

Uh, bump

 

[Imaginym]

I think it hiding if it senses hostility is only a thing out of battle cause if it wasn't, wild Ralts would just run from battles.

SBA prevents combatants running away, but they're still in-character. If it wants to keep its distance from sensed hostility out of battle, I'd assume it'd do so in-battle, too.

Also, Pokemon hasn't had mons that flee from battle since Gen 2 other than Roaming Legendaries (Where it's their whole gimmick & multiple of them have statements about being fast & racing across the land.), Pokemon in the Safari Zone, & Pokemon that use Teleport, which, Abra aside, can be chalked up to the random AI oftentimes, & is also a move not the action of fleeing.

By Gen 3, Pokemon fleeing from battle was, outside of Roamers & Safari mons, not a thing any more. It's hardly been a thing outside of Gen 2 in the main games, other than for Roamers & Safari Mons, where it's a gimmick.

Ergo, wild Ralts don't flee in the games because wild Pokemon that flee are used as a gimmick in the game designs in Gen 3 onwards, rather than because fleeing is meant to be portrayed as OoC for Ralts in battle.

Just reposting these for context on where the debate was last as, as far as I understood.

Hopefully we can get some more participation in this fun match soon.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Hopefully we can get some more participation in this fun match soon.

Indeed

 

[Peppersalt43]

Anyway, bump

 

[Arceus0x]

Voting for Ralts. Confusion has been shown to lift up people as well and hit them with psychic energy. This means that it is unlikely that Penny can do much since she'd get thrown around and hit with powerful attacks. Double team would confuse penny and with it Ralts can absolutely land several attacks. At some point confusion will set in as well, hypnosis woul work too. Basically Penny gets ragdolled and hypnotized gg.

 

[SilentLyfe]

Voting for Ralts. Confusion has been shown to lift up people as well and hit them with psychic energy. This means that it is unlikely that Penny can do much since she'd get thrown around and hit with powerful attacks.

Not really invested in this one way or another, vs threads aren’t really my thing. But for this part, lifting with Telekinesis is measured by one’s LS. Ralts has Unknown listed so Confusion would still hit but it wouldn’t be able to throw Penny around.

 

[Arceus0x]

Not really invested in this one way or another, vs threads aren’t really my thing. But for this part, lifting with Telekinesis is measured by one’s LS. Ralts has Unknown listed so Confusion would still hit but it wouldn’t be able to throw Penny around.

Idk why it's unknown when there's been clear scaling and feats. Either way at the very least she'd scale above moves like sky drop which are at least 200kg

 

[Peppersalt43]

Counted and thank you I guess

 

[Peppersalt43]

Anyway, bump

 

[Keeweed]

Penny’s 7-B key is an amp. If she falls unconscious or becomes so dizzy and confused she doesn’t even know what’s happening those maiden powers and aura are turning off. Ralts demolishes Penny super easily.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Penny’s 7-B key is an amp. If she falls unconscious or becomes so dizzy and confused she doesn’t even know what’s happening those maiden powers and aura are turning off. Ralts demolishes Penny super easily.

So uh, do we consider those chances of inflicting confusion to be game mechanics? Because it's listed in the P&A that Confusion and Psybeam only causes it 10% of the time

 

[Keeweed]

I’m pretty sure the anime is being reconnected to the games in another thread right now and those moves cause dizziness quite a bit. Though even then 1/10 chances throughout an entire battle to make your opponent 8-A (soon to be high 8-C) and dizzy isn’t bad odds at all especially with moves that can be spammed. But more important they can just do hypnosis for the easy nuke. Which absolutely just ends the fight.

 

[Peppersalt43]

I’m pretty sure the anime is being reconnected to the games in another thread right now and those moves cause dizziness quite a bit. Though even then 1/10 chances throughout an entire battle to make your opponent 8-A (soon to be high 8-C) and dizzy isn’t bad odds at all especially with moves that can be spammed. But more important they can just do hypnosis for the easy nuke. Which absolutely just ends the fight.

Maybe I'll remake this with another mon. Right now though, this thread is already really full

 

[Keeweed]

I mean, it’s not a stomp, but yeah it is bad when your opponent has three moves that can literally turn off your tier. Definitely would need to make another thread though for another opponent.

 

[Peppersalt43]

I mean, it’s not a stomp, but yeah it is bad when your opponent has three moves that can literally turn off your tier.

Oh wait, it's not? I was gonna give up assuming it's a stomp

 

[Keeweed]

I mean Penny can win, she has the ap and lasers. It’s, just in my opinion, a stupidly decisive match in Ralts favor because she has multiple one hit moves (some by some chance but not insane ones) in this particular case.

 

[Peppersalt43]

I mean Penny can win, she has the ap and lasers. It’s, just in my opinion, a stupidly decisive match in Ralts favor because she has multiple one hit moves (some by some chance but not insane ones) in this particular case.

OK then. Guess I'll count this for Ralts

 

[Peppersalt43]

Anyway, bump

 

[Grand_Pete]

I'll go with ralts.
I believe confusion, teleport & double team would grant her the victory.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Ralts FRA

 

[Peppersalt43]

Counted and thank you!

 

[Peppersalt43]

Hey, 3 more votes to grace!