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Part 1 Naruto Revision (3rd conversation)

LordTracer said:
@BlackeJan What exactly brought you to the conclusion that Zaku was not trying to harm her? Because the scans (and Zaku yelling for Sakura to get off of him several times) disagree.
Click to expand...
Cause if that was the case then that would mean Sakura is on the lvl of Lee who got hurt fighting Zaku
 
No, it wouldn't. Zaku harming Lee doesn't mean he's equal or superior to Lee. Also Shino stomped Zaku, are you going to assume Zaku wasn't trying against Shino as well now?
 
It just clicked to but after he got pierced by the chidori then healed, KN0 Naruto proceed to beat the shit out of Sasuke until the (latter got his 3rd tomoe)

So somewhere that means that KN0 Naruto should be 7-C
 
Alright, just because there is not enough time to keep debating Sasuke and Kimimaro against someone that clearly isn't going to change their mind, just put them at 'At least Low 7-C+' and them being 7-C in base can be debated after the forum move.
 
I think we're done with everything. We should start implementing the changes if nobody has any more issues.
 
BlackeJan said:
@LordTracer

Hinata needs to have her "Likely" taken away. She is stronger then Sakura
Click to expand...
How about you ask Damage about that? Cause he's the one that suggested 'Likely 8-B' for Hinata, and I really don't care to debate anything in this thread anymore lol.
 
I'll put my two cents here. Going to do my best to prevent another discussion about this.

To where Sasuke places in the pecking order, is to be quite frankly easy for me with all the evidence shown in the series manga. I'll seperate Sasuke in two versions of himself; Rooftop Sasuke and Valley Sasuke. I hope you understand where I'm going here.

Rooftop Sasuke is a lot weaker than Naruto (By how much, idk). Evidence, in chapter 175 we see Naruto and Sasuke fight. Naruto is able to match Sasuke (2-tomoe) in strenght and even block his speed. (https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0175-010.png). And as the battle continues the more the gap widens between Naruto and Sasuke as he eventually overwhelms him with his shadow clones and even dispells his Fire Ball with his Rasengan.

Shadowclones: (https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0175-013.png)

Fireball: (https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0175-016.png)

And when the final clash happens, it's outright implied that Naruto was going to not only win the exchange but almost kill Sasuke as a result.

Sasuke notes his inferiority, Kakashi and Jiraiya note that Naruto might have actually killed him: (https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0176-010.png)/ (https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0176-012.png)

So in conclusion, Rooftop Sasuke is weaker than Naruto.


Valley Sasuke- Powerups and eventual equal to Naruto.

-The First Power Up-

When Sasuke leaves the border of Konoha he's immediately ask to take a drug that allows to speed up the state of the Curse Mark as well as adjust his current body to the effects. (Note Sasuke would outright die handling all that power, if it werent for Sound 4)

Evidence: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0184-003.png/ https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0184-005.png

After Sasuke leaves the barrier, he gains more power at his base but not enough to overpower Naruto. (https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0227-012.png)


-The Second Power Up-

Sasuke awakens the third tomoe of his Sharingan, for his whatever feelings for Naruto. (Look there is enough evidence that Naruto triggered the third tomoe. Let's leave it at that.)

Due to this Sasuke receives a power up in the words of Tobirama, cause Uchiha's have some Zenkai boost bs.

1: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0619-014.png

2: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0619-015.png

3: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0619-016.png

Tho despite this it doesn't make Sasuke superior as he needs to time his dodge in order to fully elude Naruto's strikes and his strenght level is not enough to knock out Naruto.

https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-009.png

https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-014.png

Then the final clash. Just like Sasuke, Naruto is not well equipped to handle the kyuubi's chakra cloak v1 as it reecedes from his hand, and ultimately making it go numb.

https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0232-007.png

Once again the third clash, ends with a stalemate and because of Plot, Naruto scratches Sasuke's forehead protector instead of punching his face.

https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0233-002.png

Valley Sasuke is equal to Naruto, but he had to get there throughout the battle. Eh

Hopefully this helps making up some minds if not, then i just wasted my time.
 
I was trying to avoid talking about how were Sasuke/Naruto strenght compared to each other, but I agree with Tenshin-Ta. Sharigan tomoes affect directly the user strenght, KN0 was completely overwhelming Sasuke and would be bizarre to get an powerboost on the same level of KN0 when Sasuke was losing hard to base Naruto during their previous battle.
 
Now for Kimimaro's placement in the pecking order. But first, we must go through a brief lesson in the Shadow Clone jutsu, cause someone here doesn't want to do his homework on the subject and is straight up acting ignorant to it.

Shadow Clone is a jutsu that splits the users chakra evenly depending on how much the user summons to his call. Keynote here: Chakra.

Naruto's speed and strenght never once diminish for this. The evidence in question is basically all over the place. Especially in the 4th war given all the battles the clones partake in. The earliest and best example in part 1 is when Gaara takes the Naruto 2K combo.

Where Gaara acknowledges the overwhelming force of the clones strenght in stating that he can't take it.

1: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0134-006.png

2: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0134-007.png

3 (Admit's that he won't be able to take the next barrage): https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0134-008.png

4 (Further evidence that he wont let Naruto win): https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0134-009.png

Restating this again to further drive my point home: Naruto's strength and speed never once diminish when he uses his Shadow Clone technique, if it did, then all this would be mosquito bites.

now to Kimimaro

Kimimaro is above KN0 Naruto. It's a straight up fact, especially when Naruto acknowledges his strength when he tell Rock Lee to be careful.

Kimimaro's confidence: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0202-017.png / https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0203-002.png / https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0203-002.png/ https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0203-004.png

Kimimaro mowing down the clones: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0205-014.png

The Aftermath and Acknowledgement: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0209-015.png/ https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0209-017.png

Note: In the chapter, last number of clones were in normal state as it implies that kyuubi chakra influence wore out as Kimimaro continued to trounce on them.

Naruto once again admits that Kimimaro is powerful (Naruto's second panel shows all the evidence when he has to leave lee alone with him): https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0210-003.png

Kimimaro is superior to Naruto KN0 and would've straight up killed him if werent for Lee rescuing him.

(Naruto reverted to base when he saw Sasuke): https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0209-018.png

Kimimaro has Naruto's number (The Gap in there base forms): https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0209-022.png/ https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0209-023.png

Kimimaro lost to Gaara, cause ultimately his illness quickly eroded his body and at the end. Gaara admits he should've died at that moment but was saved.

https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0217-012.png / https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0217-014.png
 
We were on the verge of greatness, we were this close to being done.

@Tenshin-Ta Correct me if I'm wrong, but the TL;DR of what you're saying is: Three-Tomoe Sharingan Sasuke is Low 7-C+ (Comparable to KN0), Kimimaro is 7-C (Superior to KN0).
 
LordTracer said:
We were on the verge of greatness, we were this close to being done.

@Tenshin-Ta Correct me if I'm wrong, but the TL;DR of what you're saying is: Three-Tomoe Sharingan Sasuke is Low 7-C+ (Comparable to KN0), Kimimaro is 7-C (Superior to KN0).
Click to expand...
Pretty much.
 
Uggh

https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-009.png

Look at Sasuke's cheek. He got cut. Saying it again

"Tho despite this it doesn't make Sasuke superior as he needs to time his dodge in order to fully elude Naruto's strikes and his strenght level is not enough to knock out Naruto."


Sasuke needs to time himself in order to fully dodge and punch Naruto. But he's nowhere as strong as he doesn't have the power to knock out or straight up over power him. Because throughtout the brief fight, Sasuke just had to stay in one place to time everything and using KN0 Naruto's own momentum agaisn't him.

https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-010.png


Yes, Kimimaro superior to KN0 the evidence is there. Look it up
 
I don't see where Sasuke stayed in one place during his whole fight with Vermilion Naruto considering that after the kick it cuts to Naruto lying on the water with Sasuke holding his leg, so it implies they moved through the fight.

Also even if he needed to predict and strike Naruto to avoid taking damage he still needs to be comparable to him to actually damage him, otherwise he would have gotten nowhere.
 
Fine, I'll walk you through it.

Very bottom panel on your right. Look where Sasuke is standing. :(https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-002.png)

Another clear shot on where he is standing. https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-004.png

Pay attention to it.


Sasuke dodges the first well enough. (Look at each panel)

First Exchange: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-006.png


Naruto then amps the speed and knicks Sasuke's cheek.

1: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-007.png

2: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-009.png (Source 2, first panel, see where they are placed. 4th panel for further evidence. Still around the crater)


Sasuke uses Naruto's momentum agaisnt him

1: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-010.png

2: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-011.png

3 (Naruto fell around the floor when that happened): https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-012.png


(Source 1: Panel 3 and 5 show that Sasuke is still near the crater and hasn't moved) (Source 3: Naruto get's right back after Sasuke's punch)

This motion is repeated again, Sasuke uses Naruto's own momentum agaisnt him and tumbles down again.

1: https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-013.png

2 (Just look at angle of Naruto's head, he received the kicked and it's easy to interpet that Sasuke slammed him down the water himself): https://v217.**********.com/manga/Naruto/0230-014.png

But Naruto is still conscious.
 
yeah narutos base definitley gets stronger as they said above, he goes from below kiba to fighting transformed garra
 
Kimimaro being superior to KN0 doesn't make him 7-C necessarily. At least Low 7-C+ covers that as well.

Just stabbing someone doesn't mean you need to upscale to the next tier.

If anyone in real-life stabbed another person with a sword, we wouldn't say they're a tier above that person.
 
Excuse me, but what?

Kimimaro pretty much ran rough shot out all the Naruto clones. Physically keeping up and beating all KN0 clones at ease. Down to last clone.

For crying out loud, I put Naruto statement at admitting that Kimimaro is very powerful
 
@Tenshin-Ta; right, and I think that's enough evidence to rate his base self as At least Low 7-C+.
 
clapping somebody causally multiple times while they are bloodlusted does show the gap between you isnt close though
 
Any person can stab another person with a sword in real life; doesn't mean the gap between them is huge.
 
Damage3245 said:
Any person can stab another person with a sword in real life; doesn't mean the gap between them is huge.
Click to expand...
So can Shikamaru stab Madara with a Kunai?
 
@UchihaSlayer96; no, because we already know there is a massive difference in tier between them.

Notice how I didn't say "anybody can just stab anybody in Naruto". I stated that if two people are comparable in stats (like two people in real life) then one of them can stab the other. They don't need to be far superior to them.

If Shikamaru did stab Madara, then would you argue that Shikamaru must upscale to the next tier?
 
No but in Naruto we have clearly seen a fair share of examples where weaker character can damage stronger characters with edged weapons, it stands to logic that it would be much easier for a character to damage another character with an edged weapon.

Ofc im not saying that Shikamaru can gut Madara with a kunai but Hashirama can most definetely slice up Madara like nothing eventho they are comparable in strenght.
 
Well alright, that's fair, except we've already established that Kimimaro is much superior to Naruto. They are not comparable to each other. There's a stomp worthy gap between them.
 
> No but in Naruto we have clearly seen a fair share of examples where weaker character can damage stronger characters with edged weapons, it stands to logic that it would be much easier for a character to damage another character with an edged weapon.

Indeed. Therefore Kimimaro shanking of a bunch of mass-produced Naruto clones means that he doesn't need to be the next tier up in order to do that.
 
Uhh i mean i am arguing for that, not against it, i dont see it being neccessary for him to jump tiers because he can oneshot clones with a edged weapon, clones are already fragile enough.

But indeed so.
 
@ShrekAlmighty; right, sorry. I wasn't directing my argument at you but was highlighting what you said since it supported my point.
 
Kidkinsey said:
the clones were 1 shot tho
Click to expand...
Clones poof after taking damage. All Kimimaro "one-shotting" them means he was damaging them.
 
I mean yes but they are one shot throughout the entire series.

I think the best way to describe clones is saying that they have exact same stats as naruto with the only exception being that their HP is always at 1, so any sort of notable damage makes them disappear, and being pierced would most definetely count as notable.
 
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