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Part 1 Naruto Revision (3rd conversation)

@Qawsed yeah, this is why I'm doing the revisions, there are some calcs that are no longer valid so most characters will have a change in tiers. Unfortunately Naruto revisions take ages to complete so the profile will have to stay like this for some time.
 
Yeah I understand. Since there's a lot of characters it takes awhile to adjust, just wanted to add in that we should probably make the scaling more straight forward so you don't need to go through six profiles to find out why Orochimaru is 7-A+.
 
This is common for a lot of verses, especially Pokemon, and I hate it. Can't we just write down the numbers which character scale from in their profiles?
 
The characters with Unknow ratings, and upscaling Kimimaro to 7-C (although i assume that's agreed upon).
 
I'd prefer leaving Kimimaro on "At least Low 7-C+", since he was defeating clones, even if it was a large number of them.

Which characters with Unknown ratings do we need to decide on?
 
Why does that matter? Clones are still relative to the original, maybe slightly weaker, and he would've killed the real Naruto with a single strike had Rock Lee not intervened. Naruto himself said Kimimaro was one-shotting the clones, and Kimimaro on two different different occasions one-shot several clones at once (on the first occasions, he one-shot seven of them, on the second, he one-shot five).

As for the Unknow ratings (I'm going down WoI's sandbox for this):

- Sakura

- Hinata

- Shikamaru

- Ino

- Tenten

- Kankuro (Chünin Exams)

- Temari (Chünin Exams)
 
Wouldn't the huge number of clones Naruto made mean that they're significantly weaker than the original? Clones work by dividing the user's chakra amongst the them. So when Naruto spammed up a huge amount of clones against Kimimaro, they should be much easier to take out.
 
Again, Kimimaro was going to kill the real Naruto if Rock Lee hadn't have shown up. And considering how Kimimaro bodied all of the clones and could take out several at a time, it's not a reach to say he's 1.7x stronger than Naruto. And really, it's less than a 1.7x gap since Sasuke Retrieval KN0 > Chünin Exams KN0 > Preliminaries KN0.

Temari's current profile scales her (and Shikamaru) to Chōji, and Ino is scaled to Shikamaru. Is there a reason that can't still be done now?
 
I can't think of a reason why she and Shikamaru would scale to Choji.

And Kimimaro was going to attack the real Naruto if Rock Lee hadn't shown up. Big difference.

Also, when he took out several of them at the same time here the clones were in base, not KN0. The other time, when they were in KN0, he was protruding bones from all over his body to stab them simultaneously. I don't see the need to upscale him from that.
 
Kimimaru was dancing around Low 7-C+ KN0 which and with that thread that i posted above Kimimaru can be upscaled to 7-C


This is honestly wasting time on something really simple. we have 3 more days left and this crap should had already been taken cared of by now
 
@LordTracer; that's still base Naruto that you're talking about when he's going after the real one.

And no, even though the clones were in KN0, they're still weaker mass-produced clones being stabbed which causes them to poof. That's not enough to rate him as 7-C, so it would be better to rate him as At least Low 7-C+.

Upscaling should only be done when absolutely necessary, and we have the "At least" qualifiers for a reason.
 
Damage3245 said:
@LordTracer; that's still base Naruto that you're talking about when he's going after the real one.

And no, even though the clones were in KN0, they're still weaker mass-produced clones being stabbed which causes them to poof. That's not enough to rate him as 7-C, so it would be better to rate him as At least Low 7-C+.

Upscaling should only be done when absolutely necessary, and we have the "At least" qualifiers for a reason.
Click to expand...
Yes, them poofing means Kimimaro one-shot them. Which Naruto himself says. If you're at the point where you feel like putting an 'At least' next to a + rating, then there's no real reason not to upscale, especially when several people say it's fine.
 
@LordTracer; one-shotting a clone that has a fraction of the chakra of the original with a stabbing attack is not impressive. It's not enough to say that Kimimaro is a whole tier higher.
 
"a whole tier" You make the AP gap sound much larger than it is. It's less than 1.7x. And really it isn't even a whole tier, it's a sub-tier to another sub-tier.

Are you fine with 8-B Temari (and therefore Shikamaru and Kankuro) and Sakura (and therefore Ino), based on the feats I posted for them?
 
For Temari, aren't her feats just durability feats?

And my point still stands; clones a lot less durable than the originals. Neji could cause Naruto's clones to poof from a single punch, but he's not upscaling to the next tier either.
 
Naruto clones in particular have never been shown to be significantly weaker than him, and usually give him a massive edge against comparable or superior opponents. If they were significantly weaker they wouldn't even be worth using.

The war arc, however inconsistent it may be sometimes, basically confirmed that his clones are comparable to him because those clones managed to fight Kage and Top tier characters consistently and he had made dozens of clones at that point.

My point is that Naruto's unparalleled chakra reserves essentially eliminate the inherent limitations of Kage Bunshin, and this was pointed out and shown many times throughout the series. So I don't see how Kimimaro CASUALLY one-shotting dozens of clones and casually moving in to finish off the original isn't enough ground to upscale him. Imo Kimimaro's case is far more clear cut than Sasuke, and keep in mind that Kimimaro was also dying at that point. So at full power he'd be even stronger than that.
 
Damage3245 said:
For Temari, aren't her feats just durability feats?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure her blocking Lee's attack would moreso be AP. Considering that it's a casual Temari and an enraged Lee, plus with the way she's holding the fan, she'd be holding Lee back and preventing him from moving any further. Her surviving Gaara's attack is dura, but her AP should scale to her dura, as she scales to Shikamaru (who's AP description says that he "put up a good fight").

Also Hinata did manage to do at least something to Neji, so she should be 8-B as well.
 
I'll have to reread Shikamaru's fight to see exactly how his AP scales, but Temari's seems fine.
 
Sakura's should be fine, but I'm less sure about Hinata since Neji deliberately let her hit him and he didn't seem to be that affected by it afterwards. Could give her a possibly/likely 8-B rating.
 
Likely 8-B sounds good for Hinata. That solves all the Unknown ratings except for Tenten and Shikamaru.
 
Damage3245 said:
Upscaling should only be done when absolutely necessary, and we have the "At least" qualifiers for a reason.
Click to expand...
Thats if we cant find an other way for someone to scale and that the difference is bigger. Did u take a look at that thread i posetd above?

@LordTracer

Hinata > Sakura thats a fact. Sakura was having an equal fight with Ino (who is more into interrogation rather then actual fighting) and Hinata was trained as a youngling other then Sakura who did do anything. Sakura needs an Likely or Possibly 8-B while Base Hinata needs a solid 8-B
 
That's not how it works... an exhausted Sakura was holding her own against a solid 8-B. Hence, Sakura is solid 8-B and not 'Likely 8-B.'
 
LordTracer said:
That's not how it works... an exhausted Sakura was holding her own against a solid 8-B. Hence, Sakura is solid 8-B and not 'Likely 8-B.'
Click to expand...
Yeah but Zaku wasnt trying against her though and she was being more strategic against him. Legit if he actually wanted to try he could had one shotted her since Zaku is the same dude that hurt Lee (who we all know) is alot stronger then Sakura
 
Rocker1189 said:
I don't see a problem with sasuke up scaling to 7-C. The fact that he fought a weaker Naruto using several hits does not mean that he does not upscale. Sasuke practically paced Naruto the entire time as to not kill him despite his words. For a weaker Naruto he would not use as much power. The entire fight Sasuke was the stronger of the 2 as can be see by the fact he was perfectly fine after the radengan and chidori clash while Naruto was knocked out. The scaling is far far from 2 times so again I don't see the issue.
Click to expand...
when did naruto knocked out?

https://**********.com/read-online/Naruto-chapter-227.html
 
@BlackeJan What exactly brought you to the conclusion that Zaku was not trying to harm her? Because the scans (and Zaku yelling for Sakura to get off of him several times) disagree.
 
The only points of contention now seem to be Sasuke and Kimimaro, so can the revisions be applied to everyone else?
 
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