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I think there should just be a note with those two, noting that they absolutely shouldn't scale to COIE Anti-Monitor as it'd be a massive outlier, as if a heavily amped Jim Corrigan was contending with that Anti-Monitor, Superman and Supergirl should by no means be able to do the same.
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I feel like it should be fine if we just add a note saying why Supergirl and Superman can't scale. And the feat would be consistent with Zero Hour rivaling COIE. Also if I'm interpreting this right, Parallax was going to erase the universe across all points in time, in Pre-Crisis as well as Post-Crisis.
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As we currently sit, I can see arguments for 2-B and 2-A Parallax. I think your best bet for upgrading him to 2-A is by using the scenes of him affecting the Pre-Crisis multiverse and Zero Hour being comparable to the Crisis on Infinite Earths. I don't think there is enough supplimental information on how he and his friends stopped the Anti-Monitor for the Convergence feat to be usable. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to what the Knowledgeable Members think. This also could have the potential consequences of upgrading Takion, Darkseid, and Highfather, who all scale above him.
Somebody tap me when you're discussing Parallax's true form again. I have a point or two to add to that discussion.
Somebody tap me when you're discussing Parallax's true form again. I have a point or two to add to that discussion.
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Eh, still 2-A even if it's not Dawn of Time AM. And a note as to why Pre-C Supergirl isn't 2-A would still be a good idea regardless.
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@ClassicNESfan Well, I don't see any problems with that, as nobody else scales to Darkseid, Highfather and Takion (in this context).
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Should Zero Hour be a separate key? As Hal did absorb external energy from the Green Lantern Power Battery, he wouldn't be a normal host.
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So, something like:
4-B | 2-A | Low 2-C
Hosts | Zero Hour | True Form
4-B | 2-A | Low 2-C
Hosts | Zero Hour | True Form
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Dominus doesn't necessarily need a profile to scale Nabu and Mordru to him. He was a pretty short-lived character. The only important thing is that the referenced links demonstrate he could warp infinite realities and saw himself peer to a Lord of Order.
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You only asked if he should get one. I said I don't think it's totally necessary. I never said I'd stop you from making one.
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I do have a thing or two worth saying about Parallax's true form, but I don't know if people are interested in talking about that right now. My life is very busy at the moment, so I'm biding my time until it comes up again.
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Go ahead and say it, might as well get both the True Parallax and Zero Hour Parallax revisions done at the same time.
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It's concerning his current tier.
Parallax (True Form) is justified as being Low 2-C because it is comparable to Io, who is listed as Low 2-C for empowering Sodam Yat to the point that he could fight evenly with Superboy-Prime. This makes sense because unlike Hal Jordan's possession by Parallax, Sodam Yat had no upgrades other than Io when he fought Superboy-Prime. The amp was entirely Ion's doing, so it should be a good indicator of his base strength. But my point is that our ratings for the emotional entities all ultimately trace back to Superboy-Prime.
It's nothing definitive, but I have some doubts about Superboy-Prime being Low 2-C, and thus, doubts about the emotional entities by proxy. Superboy-Prime should be comparable to Superman (Pre-Crisis), who is just straight up 2-C for performing 2-C feats, frequently contending with 2-C characters, and occasionally chipping at low 2-B characters. The reason we do not consider Superboy-Prime 2-C is because, despite the aforementioned facts, he has a pretty notable anti-feat of being knocked out by a Low 2-C explosion. When you consider that anti-feat along with the years that passed between the Pre-Crisis era and Countdown, it seems most logical to assume that Superboy-Prime's power was silently rebooted from 2-C to Low 2-C by virtue of new writers, new stories, etc, as he was brought into the post-Crisis era. That's a perfectly reasonable conclusion to arrive at. However, I have one tiny point of contention with this line of thought. Specifically, we were never told that the explosion knocked Superboy-Prime out!
It's clear that the explosion ended the fight, but of course it did. It destroyed the universe. There was nowhere else to fight. The next time we see Superboy-Prime, we find out the explosion tossed him into the time stream, but if he's supposed to be unconscious, that is not made clear in this scene. He looks like he's just falling through the time stream. The Time Trapper even calls him "lost in time" as though he's being tossed around by the currents. In fact, if you look closely at these events (9th panel), Superboy-Prime even seems to react in shock when The Time Trapper grabs him and tosses him into the 31st Century! He reaches his arm out as he's being grabbed. That's not something unconscious people do. After The Time Trapper throws him, Superboy-Prime lands in a cornfield, gets shot at by a farmer, and immediately stands up from his fall to start talking. If he was unconscious, wouldn't that be a very convenient time to wake up? Literally the moment he lands in the future? I think it's more likely he was awake for the whole trip.
It's been years since I read either of these stories, so I could be remembering them wrong, and I welcome any corrections, but as things stand, I don't think Superboy-Prime was ever knocked unconscious by a Low 2-C explosion. The ramifications of this interpretation are obvious. If Superboy-Prime was never knocked unconscious, then there is no reason not to scale him from his Pre-Crisis 2-C feats, as it gets rid of the only thing suggesting he peaks at universal. And if Superboy-Prime is scaled from his Pre-Crisis feats and upgraded to 2-C, then that would necessitate the emotional entities be 2-C in their base states as well, as their scaling ultimately traces back to him.
Thoughts?
Parallax (True Form) is justified as being Low 2-C because it is comparable to Io, who is listed as Low 2-C for empowering Sodam Yat to the point that he could fight evenly with Superboy-Prime. This makes sense because unlike Hal Jordan's possession by Parallax, Sodam Yat had no upgrades other than Io when he fought Superboy-Prime. The amp was entirely Ion's doing, so it should be a good indicator of his base strength. But my point is that our ratings for the emotional entities all ultimately trace back to Superboy-Prime.
It's nothing definitive, but I have some doubts about Superboy-Prime being Low 2-C, and thus, doubts about the emotional entities by proxy. Superboy-Prime should be comparable to Superman (Pre-Crisis), who is just straight up 2-C for performing 2-C feats, frequently contending with 2-C characters, and occasionally chipping at low 2-B characters. The reason we do not consider Superboy-Prime 2-C is because, despite the aforementioned facts, he has a pretty notable anti-feat of being knocked out by a Low 2-C explosion. When you consider that anti-feat along with the years that passed between the Pre-Crisis era and Countdown, it seems most logical to assume that Superboy-Prime's power was silently rebooted from 2-C to Low 2-C by virtue of new writers, new stories, etc, as he was brought into the post-Crisis era. That's a perfectly reasonable conclusion to arrive at. However, I have one tiny point of contention with this line of thought. Specifically, we were never told that the explosion knocked Superboy-Prime out!
It's clear that the explosion ended the fight, but of course it did. It destroyed the universe. There was nowhere else to fight. The next time we see Superboy-Prime, we find out the explosion tossed him into the time stream, but if he's supposed to be unconscious, that is not made clear in this scene. He looks like he's just falling through the time stream. The Time Trapper even calls him "lost in time" as though he's being tossed around by the currents. In fact, if you look closely at these events (9th panel), Superboy-Prime even seems to react in shock when The Time Trapper grabs him and tosses him into the 31st Century! He reaches his arm out as he's being grabbed. That's not something unconscious people do. After The Time Trapper throws him, Superboy-Prime lands in a cornfield, gets shot at by a farmer, and immediately stands up from his fall to start talking. If he was unconscious, wouldn't that be a very convenient time to wake up? Literally the moment he lands in the future? I think it's more likely he was awake for the whole trip.
It's been years since I read either of these stories, so I could be remembering them wrong, and I welcome any corrections, but as things stand, I don't think Superboy-Prime was ever knocked unconscious by a Low 2-C explosion. The ramifications of this interpretation are obvious. If Superboy-Prime was never knocked unconscious, then there is no reason not to scale him from his Pre-Crisis 2-C feats, as it gets rid of the only thing suggesting he peaks at universal. And if Superboy-Prime is scaled from his Pre-Crisis feats and upgraded to 2-C, then that would necessitate the emotional entities be 2-C in their base states as well, as their scaling ultimately traces back to him.
Thoughts?
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Obviously, if there is an image of him unconscious after the explosion, then my argument is moot, but I thought it was worth bringing up. I don't remember seeing any such image. If one exists, then you can feel free to forget everything I just said. This point has just been rubbing me the wrong way since it came up in the Fate thread.
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Well, I would appreciate if somebody can inspect Countdown via ***************. If I remember wrong, Superboy-Prime, Sodam Yat, Kyle Rayner, and the emotional spectrum entities should probably be 2-C.
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I would be all for a 2-C Superboy-Prime if he wasn't actually KOed by the explosion.
By the way, if the Guardians of the Universe had profiles, would they be '4-B, Low 2-C via self-destruction' or just 'Low 2-C?'
By the way, if the Guardians of the Universe had profiles, would they be '4-B, Low 2-C via self-destruction' or just 'Low 2-C?'
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I skimmed through the last thirteen issues of Countdown to see if I could find Superboy-Prime unconscious, but no such luck. It's possible the scene you're remembering happened in a tie-in or something. But it's also possible the scene was written and illustrated by Dr. Mandela. Do you remember any other telltale details about the scene? Perhaps an allusion to another character or place that might give us a lead?
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Unfortunately, I don't have much more time to contribute here tonight. Other users can feel free to check my work for me. The explosion happens in Issue #13 of Countdown, and the series counts backwards to Issue #1. If anybody can find an unconsious Superboy somewhere between those pages, then feel free to toss my argument out, but otherwise, I do feel he, Sodam Yat, Kyle Rayner, and the emotional spectrum entities all deserve a bump up to 2-C.
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Last comment before I shut down for the night:
DC Wiki lists only a single appearance by Superboy-Prime between Countdown to Final Crisis #13 and Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds #1. And that appearance happens in Justice Society of America Annual #1. It's this flashback sequence. From my perspective, I'd say that just about settles it. I think Ant was suffering from the Mandela effect. I'm open to being proven wrong, though.
DC Wiki lists only a single appearance by Superboy-Prime between Countdown to Final Crisis #13 and Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds #1. And that appearance happens in Justice Society of America Annual #1. It's this flashback sequence. From my perspective, I'd say that just about settles it. I think Ant was suffering from the Mandela effect. I'm open to being proven wrong, though.
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Well, unless Zensum finds the scan of SBP getting KOed by a Low 2-C explosion, he should be 2-C.
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So Parallax true form and the other Emotional Entities will be upgraded to 2-C via scalling to Ion who empowered Sodam Yat to the point he was able to fight Superboy Prime? We should also upgrade Crimpus Spectre too since he fought Parallax and Butcher.
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Sounds like it. Superboy-Prime and those who scale to him should be upgraded to 2-C, and that includes the emotion entities. Which by proxy, should resolve this thread's original purpose and leave us to focus on whether Hal Jordan Parallax should be 2-A or not.
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