Opinions on this upscale

[GoldenScorpions]

I have a question that I hope can be answered.

I made the following snowstorm calc that was reviewed and accepted, with an AP of about 380 Megatons (7-A).

Because the characters of that generation scale off one another, that result can be applied to all 5 affected characters.
One of those characters, Takashima, has this Ichimokuren attack whose selling point is that it's a gattling-gun-like flurry of punches. I have become aware that gattling-type/consecutive attacks cannot be used in calcs or scaling, which is why I switched to the snowstorm.

However, here's the situation. With the characters scaling off each other, max-power Ichimokuren scales to 380Mt (with max-power Ichimokuren being 1000 punches). Max-power Ichimokuren's own feat was defeating a monster (Imperfect form).
Later in the story, Takashima faces an improved version (Perfect form) of the same monster that max-power Ichimokuren had defeated previously while Imperfect. However, this time, even at max power, aka 380Mt, Ichimokuren was unable to even scratch the monster's Perfect form. Takashima then activates a different form/attack: Shuten Douji, and with it, she one-shots that very same Perfect form with 1 single punch.
In a chain, it becomes: Shuten Douji > Perfect monster >>> Imperfect monster = max-power Ichimokuren = 380Mt (which was completely ineffective versus Perfect form)

A few calc group members have commented saying a scaling cannot be used between max-power Ichimokuren and Shuten Douji, as a definitive multiplier cannot be assumed.
In spite of that, is it possible to reach a satisfactory upscaling with the elements at hand? Considering Shuten Douji upscales from a monster that wasn't even scratched by a 380Mt attack, is it be acceptable to place Shuten Douji at 7-A+, maybe even High 7-A? Or can it not be done?

What do you think? I'd appreciate feedback and opinions on this.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Considering Shuten Douji upscales from a monster that wasn't even scratched by a 380Mt attack, is it be acceptable to place Shuten Douji at 7-A+, maybe even High 7-A? Or can it not be done?

Upscaling is possible, but it generally needs a rather heavy scaling chain behind it or a notable reason why they would be enough to cover the gap.

But 380 megatons isn't high enough for that scaling chain to really work for a 7-A+ or High 7-A scaling chain.

To add, you may also want to justify why they scale to the storm

 

[KLOL506]

To add, you may also want to justify why they scale to the storm

This is the important part. If they don't have anything that could help scale the storm to their physicals i.e. universal power system like magic or something, this feat would end up being an Environmental Destruction Feat.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

The characters in that series, or at least of that specific group of characters, have been given powers and superior physical traits by their God, and none of them were given special treatment over the others. There were all offered equal strength, and they all fight the same enemies/invaders, which are these giant monsters. The snowstorm is the result of one of the characters activating her Trump Card, basically a power-up/different form. All 5 girls of that group have access to a Trump Card, and all 5 Trump Cards can equally defeat Imperfect versions of the monsters, whether it's the snowstorm, Ichimokuren or the other 3 ones. It basically all links to lore and setting reasons, as well as the battles themselves, which explains and justifies these Trump Cards scaling off one another. So yes, there exists a universal and coherent power/magic system in place.

Later on, they fight Perfect version of the monsters, and none of the 5 Trump Cards can damage them at all. In fact, against one of these Perfect Form monsters, 2 of the Trump Cards were combined together (one of which was the snowstorm, another stated to be the strongest of the 5 Trump Cards), yet that double attack didn't do anything, which basically puts Perfect forms far higher than 2*380Mt.
The only way those were defeated was when 2 of the girls activated even stronger Trump Cards, one of which being Shuten Douji.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump
I'm on the verge of 90% completing this verse, and really all I need is a way to treat Stage 2 Trump Cards, as their rating will affect nearly all the existing profiles of the verse. So I'd really like to find a solution.

 

[Arceus0x]

why not 7-A+? It's just scaling it above 500 megatons, not 1gt. Wouldn't that work?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don't think they're naturally close enough to 7-A+ to scale to that rating.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Based on the text used in the story, which comes from the narration and not one of the characters, a double attack merely scratched the Perfect Vertex. It's not "it did some damage, but failed to destroy", but straight-up "it barely tickled the monster."
Then the last sentense says that not even all the Trump Cards combined could defeat the Perfect Vertex.
This instance is consistent with Takashima's 1st Trump Card, which scales to the snowstorm as explained previously, being completely useless against another Perfect Vertex, specifically the most defensive of them all.

When such statements come from the narrator (and who isn't one of the characters, which removes bias), it's hard to ignore what's being said, and those statements make sense when looking at the events and fights in the story.
Perfect Vertexes are unaffected by a 2*380Mt attack, likely unaffected by a 5*380Mt attack. These multipliers can be used, due to the Trump Cards being on the same level of power to each other, from a lore/setting reason, backed up by all 5 of them being able to equally defeat Imperfect Vertexes. Furthermore, a x2 or x5 multiplier is on the low level of multipliers, nowhere near close to high double-digits or triple-digits multipliers, and the text supports them.

All that is taken from the Statements and Multipliers pages on the wiki, none of this is out of bounds, and I really don't think any of this is unreasonable, farfetched or isolated happenstances.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bumpity Bump

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Bump. Please, someone answer

 

[Qawsedf234]

Perfect Vertexes are unaffected by a 2*380Mt attack, likely unaffected by a 5*380Mt attack. These multipliers can be used, due to the Trump Cards being on the same level of power to each other, from a lore/setting reason, backed up by all 5 of them being able to equally defeat Imperfect Vertexes. Furthermore, a x2 or x5 multiplier is on the low level of multipliers, nowhere near close to high double-digits or triple-digits multipliers, and the text supports them.

I mean

For combination attacks, similar standards to multipliers apply. It should not be assumed that a combination attack performed by multiple characters has Attack Potency equal to the sum of the participating characters Attack Potency unless there is specific evidence for it.

But you don't need to have 1 Gigaton durability to shrug off five 300 Megaton attacks. If it doesn't get through it just won't get through.

For the purposes of this thread I guess that the the superior form and the perfect monster form could qualify for 7-A+ or "At least 7-A" with the upscaling, but without a hard multiplier I'm not seeing it go into High 7-A.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

You're saying that the narrative must explicitely say, word for word, something like "it was twice as strong" or "the power behind the attack was tripled" or "their combo attack was five times as strong as before", for multipliers for combined attacks to be accepted? So as it stands, High 7-A is only a hypothetical level, then, and 7-A+ is safer.

 

[Qawsedf234]

You're saying that the narrative must explicitely say

Yes. Or at least it should.

Though like I said enough upscaling warrants an at least rating for either and maybe a 7-A+ one for the super form.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Thank you for answering and for the feedback