- 2,426
- 476
I don't think this will impact any tiers of the moment. Recent threads brought up the tiering system of One Peice so I thought I'd put my thoughts down in a seperate thread. Again this shouldn't effect anyone at the present moment. FAIR WARNING! This is a very long and detailed post. If I knew how to add table of contents I would. Please read in the entirety before responding.
Why Kaido is Tier 0/God Tier
From the beginning we are introduced to Kaido as the single strongest creature. On land, air, and sea no one is stronger. One-on-one, Kaido will win. Impressive hype right off the start but lets look at his feats.
At some point in his history he and Big Mom ruled the OP world under their group ROCKS. This was prior to even Roger's rise to power.
40 years ago something happened which lead to the disolution of this group and the two titans went their seperate ways. Thsi incident is also when Garp gained the monikier "Hero of the Marines", not for fighting Roger as many had thought. Kong and SenGoku were more than likely but not outright confirmed to have been around in this time period as well given their age.
After the breakup of ROCKS Roger, Shiki, and Newgate took to power. WG had their hands full with these three and rvialries were formed (Ex Garp VS Roger). There were other powerful pirates and likley Marines at this point as well but these were the main stars.
What happend to the two titans? We know BM started building her crew. Her crew is almost entirely made up of her children, stepchildren, and homies. Meaning it took her a long time to build up her new crew. That just leaves Kaido.
Going back to his introduction we know he was defeated seven times. Most reading this saw him as a guy who had not amounted to much and was now suicidal. The narrator continued with his description specifying that in these loses he took on the Yonko and the WG single handedly. Furthermore, whenever they tried to kill Kaido they failed miserably. Think about what this means.
Kaido took on the Yonko and the WG by himself.
That means Garp, Kong, & SenGoku, as well as Big Mom, Shanks, and Newgate were all unable to even damage him, let alone beat him and kill him by themselevs alone.
While we have no confirmation Kaido fought Roger or Shiki, we can scale them to WB and Garp and see that they two would lack the AP to harm, let alone kill Kaido.
Now a counter argumet to this is:
"Kaido is the strongest character alive, Roger is dead."
And
"Roger was king, that makes him stronger than Kaido"
Now here's why that doesn't hold up.
Yes, Roger was dead at the moment the narrator hyped Kaido. WB too for that matter. It doesn't matter though because as alrady pointed out Kaido does have experience fighting the other Yonko and Marines single handedly. Again, we cannot say for sure about Roger ever having fought Kaido, but we do know his rivals (Garp, WB, etc) were unable to scale to Kaido by themselves.
"But Roger is King"
Has the title of King ever been said to go to the strongest? if that were the case then Kaido should as a minimum be the current Pirate King. It was also brought up that Kaido is still comparable to other Yonko. I honestly do not see it. Maybe the fans say they are comparable, but the one-peice world itself does not. Even if they were, WB and likely Shiki were comparable to Roger even during his reign. That means that even if KIng is reserved for the strongest it would still apply if they had some form of rivals. Hence Kaido would still be Pirate King whether he was the strongest by a lot, or only by a little.
On the other hand its more likley than not that being PK requires more than being the single physically strongest. You have to have a powerful crew AND use them effectively. Teamwork is a common theme in OP world.
Luffy had Law help against Duffy
Luffy had Nami help against Cracker
Luffy had Brulee's help (Unwillingly) against Katakuri
Even BM had help from her crew. Otherwise she may have been assasinated. Then she had them helping her out in pursuing the strawhats.
There's also a famous line I see even knowledgeable members liek Damage use misappropiately:
"I would have defeated them all! Red Hair, Kaido, even Whitebeard!"
-Big Mom
I'm paraphrasing that a bit but hopefully everyone knows the source.
Damage and others have said this makes WB the most powerful of the four because she singles him out with "even". But that makes no sense. Right in the description it says BM would take out all 3 other yonko. If anything that would mean she is the most powerful, and by a considerable amount. Then WB follows her, and then the other two.
But again this is wrong for it ignores context.
BM is not referencing a 1-3 fight. She is referencing the strength of her crew comparavle to the other crews. Specifically if she had the ginats in her crew, then BM (and company) could over throw Kaido (and crew, WB (and crew) and Shanks (and crew).
This makes snese then why she would single out WB:
We haven't seen much of Shanks' crew, but from what we do now it is absurdly small and would be coparatively easy to snuff them out.
Kaido's crew has a bit more story to them, but still nothing special in terms of numbers, power, or intelligence. Regardless of how big his crew is Kaido still has to be wlling and able to use them effectively. That brings us back to his introduction.
"He took on the WG and Yonko single handedly"
If Kaido is by himself he can be beaten (Albeit not damaged).
That just leaves WB.
WB may not be as strong as Kaido but he has a vast army behind him AND he actually uses them. He did not charge into Marineford and take on the Marines alone. He came with his army.
Big mom (and crew) would have a greater issue waging war with him and all his occupied territories than she would haning up on Shanks and Kaido.
As if that were not enough let's consider this. Whoever holds the "One Peice" is the Pirate king (Source OP wiki). That's not strength, that's talking about Roger's long lost treasure.
When talking to Silver (Roger's first mate) Luffy says the PK is not the most powerful pirate in the world, but the one with the most freedom. To this Silver smiles and implies that is perceisely what Roger (the only other character to be dubbed PK) thought as well.
Furthermore when the Stawhat grand fellt is formed Luffy explains he has no desire to rule over/boss others around. His definition of King is different in that he only wants everyone to be equals, friends, and counted on in times of need. Furthering the importance of crew strength but also the need to have a certain charisma in order to build and maintain the friendships the crew is built on.
Mihawk "The clairvoyant" also addresses this. He takes note of Luffy's ability to draw others to his cause and that is his single greatest strength.
WB was considered the one closest to one peice after Roger's death. A recent databook says that is now Shanks. Both of these men had connection to Roger:
Roger offered to tell WB where OP was
Roger chose shanks, passed the straw hat onto the boy in his crew
As you can see, it is entirely possible that if OP is a real thing that Roger could simply give these men the information they need, or at the very list some very good hints
Alternatively if the OP is not physical treasure but a philosophy then it fits these two as well. The OP is not about gold or power but the ability/charisma to draw others to your cause for freedom.
WB never had any desire for treasure. His only desire was to live his life peacefully, free with his "family"
Shanks doesn't care for Gold either. He doesn't care about respect as he lets himself get bullied by weaklings. He only cares about freedom and the well being of his friends/family.
Either way these two are not the closest to finding OP because they are "powerful" in the physical sense, but because they have either hints to its location or share a similar philosophy to the deceased PK.
Even Luffy shares a similar philosophy to both of these guys and pretty much everyone will tell you his chances of being the PK by series end are very high.
BB on the other hand is not worthy of being PK (Stated by WB) and has a much darker philosophy than any of these man.
So having outlined all that I'll go back to my previous point: The pirate king does not mean being the single physically strongest character.. Therefore using that to argue Roger or WB is more powerful thank Kaido is at the very least questionnable.
"But Big mom specified Whitebeard . . ."
But that was regarding crew strength which ties into a PK's ability to draw on a powerful team.
So failing those counter arguments we bo back to the lore and feats of Kaido
He is the storngest character in the series.
"But what about dead characters"
Again he has history with most of the top tiers of the verse and those he doesn't (Roger) still scale to those he does (Garp, WB).
One-one-one Kaido will win
Kaido is the strongest
No one can harm him, let alone kill him, and not for lack of trying.
In conclusion, Kaido is God tier.
P:S I was going to review others but this post is already so long I think I better leave it here.
Why Kaido is Tier 0/God Tier
From the beginning we are introduced to Kaido as the single strongest creature. On land, air, and sea no one is stronger. One-on-one, Kaido will win. Impressive hype right off the start but lets look at his feats.
At some point in his history he and Big Mom ruled the OP world under their group ROCKS. This was prior to even Roger's rise to power.
40 years ago something happened which lead to the disolution of this group and the two titans went their seperate ways. Thsi incident is also when Garp gained the monikier "Hero of the Marines", not for fighting Roger as many had thought. Kong and SenGoku were more than likely but not outright confirmed to have been around in this time period as well given their age.
After the breakup of ROCKS Roger, Shiki, and Newgate took to power. WG had their hands full with these three and rvialries were formed (Ex Garp VS Roger). There were other powerful pirates and likley Marines at this point as well but these were the main stars.
What happend to the two titans? We know BM started building her crew. Her crew is almost entirely made up of her children, stepchildren, and homies. Meaning it took her a long time to build up her new crew. That just leaves Kaido.
Going back to his introduction we know he was defeated seven times. Most reading this saw him as a guy who had not amounted to much and was now suicidal. The narrator continued with his description specifying that in these loses he took on the Yonko and the WG single handedly. Furthermore, whenever they tried to kill Kaido they failed miserably. Think about what this means.
Kaido took on the Yonko and the WG by himself.
That means Garp, Kong, & SenGoku, as well as Big Mom, Shanks, and Newgate were all unable to even damage him, let alone beat him and kill him by themselevs alone.
While we have no confirmation Kaido fought Roger or Shiki, we can scale them to WB and Garp and see that they two would lack the AP to harm, let alone kill Kaido.
Now a counter argumet to this is:
"Kaido is the strongest character alive, Roger is dead."
And
"Roger was king, that makes him stronger than Kaido"
Now here's why that doesn't hold up.
Yes, Roger was dead at the moment the narrator hyped Kaido. WB too for that matter. It doesn't matter though because as alrady pointed out Kaido does have experience fighting the other Yonko and Marines single handedly. Again, we cannot say for sure about Roger ever having fought Kaido, but we do know his rivals (Garp, WB, etc) were unable to scale to Kaido by themselves.
"But Roger is King"
Has the title of King ever been said to go to the strongest? if that were the case then Kaido should as a minimum be the current Pirate King. It was also brought up that Kaido is still comparable to other Yonko. I honestly do not see it. Maybe the fans say they are comparable, but the one-peice world itself does not. Even if they were, WB and likely Shiki were comparable to Roger even during his reign. That means that even if KIng is reserved for the strongest it would still apply if they had some form of rivals. Hence Kaido would still be Pirate King whether he was the strongest by a lot, or only by a little.
On the other hand its more likley than not that being PK requires more than being the single physically strongest. You have to have a powerful crew AND use them effectively. Teamwork is a common theme in OP world.
Luffy had Law help against Duffy
Luffy had Nami help against Cracker
Luffy had Brulee's help (Unwillingly) against Katakuri
Even BM had help from her crew. Otherwise she may have been assasinated. Then she had them helping her out in pursuing the strawhats.
There's also a famous line I see even knowledgeable members liek Damage use misappropiately:
"I would have defeated them all! Red Hair, Kaido, even Whitebeard!"
-Big Mom
I'm paraphrasing that a bit but hopefully everyone knows the source.
Damage and others have said this makes WB the most powerful of the four because she singles him out with "even". But that makes no sense. Right in the description it says BM would take out all 3 other yonko. If anything that would mean she is the most powerful, and by a considerable amount. Then WB follows her, and then the other two.
But again this is wrong for it ignores context.
BM is not referencing a 1-3 fight. She is referencing the strength of her crew comparavle to the other crews. Specifically if she had the ginats in her crew, then BM (and company) could over throw Kaido (and crew, WB (and crew) and Shanks (and crew).
This makes snese then why she would single out WB:
We haven't seen much of Shanks' crew, but from what we do now it is absurdly small and would be coparatively easy to snuff them out.
Kaido's crew has a bit more story to them, but still nothing special in terms of numbers, power, or intelligence. Regardless of how big his crew is Kaido still has to be wlling and able to use them effectively. That brings us back to his introduction.
"He took on the WG and Yonko single handedly"
If Kaido is by himself he can be beaten (Albeit not damaged).
That just leaves WB.
WB may not be as strong as Kaido but he has a vast army behind him AND he actually uses them. He did not charge into Marineford and take on the Marines alone. He came with his army.
Big mom (and crew) would have a greater issue waging war with him and all his occupied territories than she would haning up on Shanks and Kaido.
As if that were not enough let's consider this. Whoever holds the "One Peice" is the Pirate king (Source OP wiki). That's not strength, that's talking about Roger's long lost treasure.
When talking to Silver (Roger's first mate) Luffy says the PK is not the most powerful pirate in the world, but the one with the most freedom. To this Silver smiles and implies that is perceisely what Roger (the only other character to be dubbed PK) thought as well.
Furthermore when the Stawhat grand fellt is formed Luffy explains he has no desire to rule over/boss others around. His definition of King is different in that he only wants everyone to be equals, friends, and counted on in times of need. Furthering the importance of crew strength but also the need to have a certain charisma in order to build and maintain the friendships the crew is built on.
Mihawk "The clairvoyant" also addresses this. He takes note of Luffy's ability to draw others to his cause and that is his single greatest strength.
WB was considered the one closest to one peice after Roger's death. A recent databook says that is now Shanks. Both of these men had connection to Roger:
Roger offered to tell WB where OP was
Roger chose shanks, passed the straw hat onto the boy in his crew
As you can see, it is entirely possible that if OP is a real thing that Roger could simply give these men the information they need, or at the very list some very good hints
Alternatively if the OP is not physical treasure but a philosophy then it fits these two as well. The OP is not about gold or power but the ability/charisma to draw others to your cause for freedom.
WB never had any desire for treasure. His only desire was to live his life peacefully, free with his "family"
Shanks doesn't care for Gold either. He doesn't care about respect as he lets himself get bullied by weaklings. He only cares about freedom and the well being of his friends/family.
Either way these two are not the closest to finding OP because they are "powerful" in the physical sense, but because they have either hints to its location or share a similar philosophy to the deceased PK.
Even Luffy shares a similar philosophy to both of these guys and pretty much everyone will tell you his chances of being the PK by series end are very high.
BB on the other hand is not worthy of being PK (Stated by WB) and has a much darker philosophy than any of these man.
So having outlined all that I'll go back to my previous point: The pirate king does not mean being the single physically strongest character.. Therefore using that to argue Roger or WB is more powerful thank Kaido is at the very least questionnable.
"But Big mom specified Whitebeard . . ."
But that was regarding crew strength which ties into a PK's ability to draw on a powerful team.
So failing those counter arguments we bo back to the lore and feats of Kaido
He is the storngest character in the series.
"But what about dead characters"
Again he has history with most of the top tiers of the verse and those he doesn't (Roger) still scale to those he does (Garp, WB).
One-one-one Kaido will win
Kaido is the strongest
No one can harm him, let alone kill him, and not for lack of trying.
In conclusion, Kaido is God tier.
P:S I was going to review others but this post is already so long I think I better leave it here.
