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One Piece Speed Downgrade.... Continued...
- Thread starter SchutzenDunkelZiel1217
- Start date
- Status
- 1,973
- 61
Again, the attack WASN'T far slower. And she timed the lightning which was already stated before, that's why she wasn't clearly MHS, Kalifa is the second weakest CP9 (Nero is the weakest), and the fact that she could lightning time to begin with was enough to power scale both the Monster Trio and the higher-end tier characters. It's cloud to ground using the staff to make the lightning fire in the direction she wished it.
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- Thread starter
- #44
I've alreay asked the my question now I'll ask this again. Kalifa at first when she had no knowledge of Nami's attacks were capable of reacting to the lightning strike yet afterwards after she has knowledge of Nami's attacks she fails to react to it...
And Kalifa has already seen Nami shoot lightning bolts from her clima tact so this "usually lightning only goes downwards towards the ground in reality. Nami manipulated it with her staff so that it came her way instead. It was energized just as an actual cloud would be with static electricity, thus when it came she was still surprised. Nami was also turned away from her." can be thrown away..
And Kalifa has already seen Nami shoot lightning bolts from her clima tact so this "usually lightning only goes downwards towards the ground in reality. Nami manipulated it with her staff so that it came her way instead. It was energized just as an actual cloud would be with static electricity, thus when it came she was still surprised. Nami was also turned away from her." can be thrown away..
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- Thread starter
- #47
Prove that it wasn't far slower cuz I can prove that it was below mach 1.Davy0 said:
Kalifa never timed lightning. Lightning timing is when you're actually able to dodge it... she raised up a soap wall to protect. And the calc assumed that Bluneo should have at least as much reaction speeds as Kalifa.
Also the timing you're saying is also used by other characters to dodge light but that doesn't give them light speed reactions or anything...
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- Thread starter
- #48
Oh now I see. She timed the lightning huh. I'm gussing this is similar to the way martial artists avoid laser by timing their movement in accordance with the way the person fired the attack...Davy0 said:
And what exactly did ya mean in your second statement...
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- Thread starter
- #49
Simply to clarify lightning timing is when you actually dodge lightning.
Ah wait I seem to understand what you're saying now. So according to you Kalifa timed her movement because she aready knew lightning was gonna strike am I correct...
Ah wait I seem to understand what you're saying now. So according to you Kalifa timed her movement because she aready knew lightning was gonna strike am I correct...
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As much as I like one piece that's the general problem with it one instance feats which contradict other showings lol this seems pretty accurate
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Just so we're all on the same page: can all agree that outliers by definition are contradictions of the rest of the work, and that if specific evidence is pulled out to call a feat an outlier then it is because the evidence directly contradicts the feat?
So, not to mince words, but the discussion is basically: does Kalifa getting tagged several times by equally fast, and slower attacks contradict her apparent ability to react to lightning earlier. I say no. I think in the eb and flow of combat, a character having variable performance is not just normal but expected; if a character dodges an attack, we'd (I thought) never expect that they are too fast for that attack to ever work.
It's not inconsistant with the general power scale either (like, say, Roshi blowing up the moon); Kalifa's combat speed is the same as others on her tier; characters who'd get their combat speed from this, like Luffy would be significantly faster than characters who're slower, and significantly slower than characters who're faster, which seems, y'know, right.
So, not to mince words, but the discussion is basically: does Kalifa getting tagged several times by equally fast, and slower attacks contradict her apparent ability to react to lightning earlier. I say no. I think in the eb and flow of combat, a character having variable performance is not just normal but expected; if a character dodges an attack, we'd (I thought) never expect that they are too fast for that attack to ever work.
It's not inconsistant with the general power scale either (like, say, Roshi blowing up the moon); Kalifa's combat speed is the same as others on her tier; characters who'd get their combat speed from this, like Luffy would be significantly faster than characters who're slower, and significantly slower than characters who're faster, which seems, y'know, right.
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- Thread starter
- #52
Yeah and you're only accepting the high end for her speed then. While the low end is more acceptable.
Her reacting to it was only done once yet her not reacting to it and a slower attack was done twice. I agree that a character having variable performance in battle is correct but among three performances if she is shown as not being able to react to lightning and a slower attack twice I'd accept this more as her true speed as it was performed more often...
Her reacting to it was only done once yet her not reacting to it and a slower attack was done twice. I agree that a character having variable performance in battle is correct but among three performances if she is shown as not being able to react to lightning and a slower attack twice I'd accept this more as her true speed as it was performed more often...
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Why? We always take high showings. It's the only reason any characters have been able to break past wall level dc. It's never been demanded that a character have to recreate a feat more than half the time ever before.
We're recording what characters ca do, not taking an average of everything they have done, and she ca do it. She did do it.
We're recording what characters ca do, not taking an average of everything they have done, and she ca do it. She did do it.
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- Thread starter
- #54
If the high end showings are only done once and the low end showings are done several times then we accept the low end showings other wise a ton od other characters would have gotten multiple increase in stats by now...
Yeah and she wasn't able to do it again on multiple occasions after that and I'm gonna have to come back and say this is an outlier again then... She was only capable of doing a high end (reacting to cloud to ground lightning) once in the entire show and was incapable of doing it later on. If you're gonna accept the high end feat here then there are a ton of characters I'm gonna upgrade to Planet level and speed stats changed to Relativisic and above from Town Level and Hypersonic...
Yeah and she wasn't able to do it again on multiple occasions after that and I'm gonna have to come back and say this is an outlier again then... She was only capable of doing a high end (reacting to cloud to ground lightning) once in the entire show and was incapable of doing it later on. If you're gonna accept the high end feat here then there are a ton of characters I'm gonna upgrade to Planet level and speed stats changed to Relativisic and above from Town Level and Hypersonic...
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We're recording what characters ca do, not taking an average of everything they have done, and she ca do it. She did do it.
this depends on if the higher end is a logical upgrade to the low ends and other feats shown the series
this depends on if the higher end is a logical upgrade to the low ends and other feats shown the series
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- Thread starter
- #56
And what happens if she can't ever do it again then and shows that she isn't able to react to both the same speed and one which is lower speed instead. If you're gonna say that we still accept the high end then I need to go and upgrade some stats...
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it would be considered an outlier but let me remind you this not me saying i agree or disagree with any arguement as i have little knowledge on one piece (although its on my list of manga to read)
all im doing is adding neutral input and moderating the discussion
all im doing is adding neutral input and moderating the discussion
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But that's not what an outlier is. You yourself agreed that characters perform incosistantly when they fight. Outliers contradict the rest of the work, whether obviously, or less so; outliers are not simply when a character fails to replicate a feat. Kalifa reacting to lightning not only doesn't contradict the rest of the work, it fits right i.
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- Thread starter
- #59
Technically that is what an outlier is as it is heavily contradicted by her other showings which points to no where near MHS.
I should've told ya my conditions for agreeing with it then...a character can have variable showings yes I agree with this but that doesn't mean I'll accept the high end though I simply accepted that they can have variable showings nothing more nothing less.
The more the showings the more acceptable it is....
I should've told ya my conditions for agreeing with it then...a character can have variable showings yes I agree with this but that doesn't mean I'll accept the high end though I simply accepted that they can have variable showings nothing more nothing less.
The more the showings the more acceptable it is....
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- 1,428
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- Thread starter
- #61
Ok then I'll sum it up for ya.
An OP Character called Kalifa reactes to a cloud to ground lightning strike which gave her lightning speed reactions but later on she never shows this reaction speed again and even fails to react to an attack of the same speed and an attack with speed much much lower than that of lightning..
You can decide if this is an outlier or not...
An OP Character called Kalifa reactes to a cloud to ground lightning strike which gave her lightning speed reactions but later on she never shows this reaction speed again and even fails to react to an attack of the same speed and an attack with speed much much lower than that of lightning..
You can decide if this is an outlier or not...
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it does look to be an outlier.....
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- Thread starter
- #64
Ok then... although I'm seriously starting to get tired of this thread...
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I could care less about you getting tired if you're taking away genuine feats from characters. Especially ones from One Piece. Thunder Lance Tempo is lightning from a cloud of static electricity built up to act like a thunderbolt. It's a Thunderbolt no matter what your scan says as it's directly from that cloud, and the lightning is still moving at the same speed it did when she first timed it, so that doesn't matter.
Again, if Kalifa can time the lightning, there are characters who are faster (Sanji lost only because of his morals) than Kalifa who can outright dodge it. Completely without trying.
It doesn't contradict anything. Keep in mind that Kalifa had also, already, taken damage in the fight and with that could have had lag. The simple fact that she was surprised by the thunderbolt is a simple form of logic. Lightning doesn't usually strike the way that Nami uses it so she didn't know where it would travel or how it would strike her. Nami used the staff to catch her with the lightning rod effect so the lightning traversed straight at her. It was from the cloud, and that's still a form of lightning, so it was still an MHS feat, it just means that Kalifa had gotten tired and Nami finished the fight.
If you want to get this for an outlier, then let's go through every series where a character is caught by lightning attacks or something similar to what should be an MHS feat.
Again, if Kalifa can time the lightning, there are characters who are faster (Sanji lost only because of his morals) than Kalifa who can outright dodge it. Completely without trying.
It doesn't contradict anything. Keep in mind that Kalifa had also, already, taken damage in the fight and with that could have had lag. The simple fact that she was surprised by the thunderbolt is a simple form of logic. Lightning doesn't usually strike the way that Nami uses it so she didn't know where it would travel or how it would strike her. Nami used the staff to catch her with the lightning rod effect so the lightning traversed straight at her. It was from the cloud, and that's still a form of lightning, so it was still an MHS feat, it just means that Kalifa had gotten tired and Nami finished the fight.
If you want to get this for an outlier, then let's go through every series where a character is caught by lightning attacks or something similar to what should be an MHS feat.
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- Thread starter
- #66
For the last part of your comment we already do that you know...
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- #67
I'll just say this then... One it doesn't matter what body part is injured cuz she never moves. The only thing she does is form a soap wall.
Two she failed to react to an attack which was far slower than lightning even though there was no possible way of her getting surprised by that as Nami practically performed the feat in front of her.
Three so you're allowed to use science and I'm not huh. Oh lightning doesn't act that way oh wait this is fiction something which you said so she souldn't be surprised as she's literally a soap woman...
Yeah I never said thunder lance tempo was not lightning speed. I said thunder ball tempo was not lightning speed. And Kalifa failed to react to both of these... .
Two she failed to react to an attack which was far slower than lightning even though there was no possible way of her getting surprised by that as Nami practically performed the feat in front of her.
Three so you're allowed to use science and I'm not huh. Oh lightning doesn't act that way oh wait this is fiction something which you said so she souldn't be surprised as she's literally a soap woman...
Yeah I never said thunder lance tempo was not lightning speed. I said thunder ball tempo was not lightning speed. And Kalifa failed to react to both of these... .
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- Thread starter
- #68
You know what I give up... the only thing this thread is doing is giving me a headache...
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- #70
Yeah and she fails to react to something of the same speed and something with much slower speed later on... but do whatever you want cuz I'm too tired of this....
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ok im closing the thread as it is a loop discussion and schutz said he no longer wishes to continue and are free to change the pages
however Lord Kavpeny was notified prior to this and if he wishes to reopen the thread he can to debate his point and make a decision
however Lord Kavpeny was notified prior to this and if he wishes to reopen the thread he can to debate his point and make a decision
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