One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

[KingTempest]

Ace was prior to his training when he fought jinbe
Akainu block is an outlier he got impaled right after plus jinbe fought so many weaker characters and got injured by them that it breaks scaling, same for whoever else
Law was a formidable pirate on the level of warlords as well, including Crocodile, and they don't scale to top tiers

 

[Popbum]

Okay ace situation makes sense. As for akainu, wasn’t jinbe blocking with water so his hand wouldn’t get burned as bad? I feel like I remember seeing that, and I can’t think of much character jinbe has actually fought besides who’s who which ig I can see the argument for. Yeah I was lowkey reaching with the warlord argument, just seen some of the justifications for boa.

 

[KingTempest]

Okay ace situation makes sense.

As for akainu, wasn’t jinbe blocking with water so his hand wouldn’t get burned as bad?

He did, and akainu burned through it and still hurt him.

I feel like I remember seeing that, and I can’t think of much character jinbe has actually fought besides who’s who which ig I can see the argument for.

Weaker than katakuri
He got hurt by beginning of timeskip fishman island Luffy in gear 2nd
Who's-Who like you said
Failed to efficiently one shot wadatsumi which a top tier would do

Yeah I was lowkey reaching with the warlord argument, just seen some of the justifications for boa.

I'm not a fan of it for boa don't worry

 

[OrangeFR]

I’m like 90% I asked this before but wtv. Why are are jibes non current keys only 6-C? Feel like he should’ve always been been 5-C based of feats and narrative.

Wait vsbw seriously has Monster Point Chopper over Jinbe?

 

[SlendVeny]

Wait vsbw seriously has Monster Point Chopper over Jinbe?

Wow, this got me to check the profiles and apparently someone vandalized the hell out of Chopper's profile.

 

[Hasty12345]

He might have been onto something with high galaxy speed though

 

[KingTempest]

He might have been onto something with high galaxy speed though

"Might"

 

[Eseseso]

 

[Stefano4444]

Wow, this got me to check the profiles and apparently someone vandalized the hell out of Chopper's profile.

If there its one things that we would seriously need to revisit when we finally get the new acceptable calcs its the current Scaling.

Chopper its probably the bigger offender here but there its also other examples.

 

[SlendVeny]

"Once, on the back of a snake, there lived a spider. The Spider was born to a family of spiders, all serving the World. The World had many children, but very few friends. One day, The World lost a friend, and, looking for a new one, came upon the Spider. The Spider and the World found between themselves a mutual understanding, and the Spider knew that the two of them were above the lowly insects beneath. The World made the Spider very strong, and the Spider made the World very happy with the many toys he made. But the insects didn't like the Spider at all. While the Spider built the World its toys, the insects were eaten, one at a time. One day, one broke free. The Spider thought little of it, until one day, his friend the monkey found some troubling news. A mutual friend, the doctor, had met with the child of the fly that got away. The child was protected by a powerful bear, and so the spider could not catch it. The spider told the bear that if it worked for him, he would give the child safe haven, and fix it, the bear agreed, and that was that. Then, one day, the Spider's friends decided the doctor had gone too far. Together with the monkey, the Spider set out to stop him, and destroy the child. However, even though they stopped the doctor, the child was protected by the bear, and both of them escaped beneath the light of the sun. The Spider pleaded with the world. 'I have served you all my life! Please! Just one more chance!' It was as he burned that the spider realized. In the eyes of the World, no matter how big he grew, he would always be nothing more than a bug."

-Slendveny

 

[Eseseso]

"Once, on the back of a snake, there lived a spider. The Spider was born to a family of spiders, all serving the World. The World had many children, but very few friends. One day, The World lost a friend, and, looking for a new one, came upon the Spider. The Spider and the World found between themselves a mutual understanding, and the Spider knew that the two of them were above the lowly insects beneath. The World made the Spider very strong, and the Spider made the World very happy with the many toys he made. But the insects didn't like the Spider at all. While the Spider built the World its toys, the insects were eaten, one at a time. One day, one broke free. The Spider thought little of it, until one day, his friend the monkey found some troubling news. A mutual friend, the doctor, had met with the child of the fly that got away. The child was protected by a powerful bear, and so the spider could not catch it. The spider told the bear that if it worked for him, he would give the child safe haven, and fix it, the bear agreed, and that was that. Then, one day, the Spider's friends decided the doctor had gone too far. Together with the monkey, the Spider set out to stop him, and destroy the child. However, even though they stopped the doctor, the child was protected by the bear, and both of them escaped beneath the light of the sun. The Spider pleaded with the world. 'I have served you all my life! Please! Just one more chance!' It was as he burned that the spider realized. In the eyes of the World, no matter how big he grew, he would always be nothing more than a bug."

-Slendveny

Bars.

 

[Popbum]

He did, and akainu burned through it and still hurt him.

Weaker than katakuri
He got hurt by beginning of timeskip fishman island Luffy in gear 2nd
Who's-Who like you said
Failed to efficiently one shot wadatsumi which a top tier would do

I'm not a fan of it for boa don't worry

Yeah it still hurt him but not to the degree that it normally would and he still stopped the punch, but ye the showings in fisherman island kinda go against that same with being weaker than kat. Guess my head canon will have to stay head canon for now.

 

[Antvasima]

Hello everybody.

Should we restore this revision? And should it say "higher" or "far higher" in that case?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Monkey_D._Garp?diff=9329026&oldid=9328255

 

[KingTempest]

Hello everybody.

Should we restore this revision? And should it say "higher" or "far higher" in that case?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Monkey_D._Garp?diff=9329026&oldid=9328255

The revision (in the stats section) should stay reverted.
The revision (in the notable attacks section) should change to what Jropzone1 changed it to.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Ace was prior to his training when he fought jinbe
Akainu block is an outlier he got impaled right after plus jinbe fought so many weaker characters and got injured by them that it breaks scaling, same for whoever else
Law was a formidable pirate on the level of warlords as well, including Crocodile, and they don't scale to top tiers

Come on bro... It's legit 2026, Jinbe 1000% in some type of way scales to the God tiers...

Weaker than katakuri

He both outpaced him and overpowered his arm haki, the same one Gear 4th Snakeman couldn't escape

He got hurt by beginning of timeskip fishman island Luffy in gear 2nd

Didn't even use haki and lowered his guard, otherwise we can do the same with Garp and so many more characters

Who's-Who like you said

Haven't really seen that fight... I'll look into it now...

So basically... Jinbe is stalling who's who the entire fight, not even using arm haki in the beginning... Then after Who's who starts fully trying... Jinbe then easily defends Who's who attack, making him having to go all out to be able to start damaging him

After that we see Jinbe a little more serious easily defend against an even stronger attack than before and easily overpower him, still being able to stall him with arm haki

After that, Who's who uses finger pistol which seems to take Jinbe a little off guard as he doesn't fully see it coming, getting stabbed in his stomach area and weakening a bit... Having to start using more of his Haki against the finger pistols and starts getting serious to which Who's who attacks completely gets tanked, after getting serious... Who's who attacks no matter what he tries can't even scratch Jinbe which then Jinbe easily one shots him

Like come on now...

Failed to efficiently one shot wadatsumi which a top tier would do

Didn't even use Haki and easily blocked and overpowered his hits...

He did, and akainu burned through it and still hurt him.

”Still hurt him”... Like he didn't still stop the force and defended against the attack, getting hurt just means Akainu has superior Arm Haki... That's all

 

[KingTempest]

Come on bro... It's legit 2026, Jinbe 1000% in some type of way scales to the God tiers...

It can be 2040 if we're using 2010 versions we use 2010 feats

He both outpaced him and overpowered his arm haki, the same one Gear 4th Snakeman couldn't escape

You can't read. In the same page you sent he said moisture lets mochi become less sticky. It is not overpowering.

Didn't even use haki and lowered his guard, otherwise we can do the same with Garp and so many more characters

Haki does not take you from 6-C to 6-A

Haven't really seen that fight... I'll look into it now...

So basically... Jinbe is stalling who's who the entire fight, not even using arm haki in the beginning... Then after Who's who starts fully trying... Jinbe then easily defends Who's who attack, making him having to go all out to be able to start damaging him

After that we see Jinbe a little more serious easily defend against an even stronger attack th

Jinbe and Who's Who both confirmed that his rokushiki would cut through his armament haki.

 

[Damage3245]

He both outpaced him and overpowered his arm haki, the same one Gear 4th Snakeman couldn't escape

He didn't overpower his Armament Haki. Katakuri's arm didn't even budge from Jinbe's attack; what he did was add enough moisture that allowed Luffy to be knocked loose of the sticky mochi.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You can't read. In the same page you sent he said moisture lets mochi become less sticky. It is not overpowering.

He didn't overpower his Armament Haki. Katakuri's arm didn't even budge from Jinbe's attack; what he did was add enough moisture that allowed Luffy to be knocked loose of the sticky mochi.

by using Haki... If you use DF and Haki, it will work the same as before unless you have higher arm haki

Luffy, who fused the power of his armament color and rubber, made his armament color, which is normally hardened, more elastic. If an attack is made by an armament color lower than Luffy's, it will repel the attack as before.

It can be 2040 if we're using 2010 versions we use 2010 feats

... what

Haki does not take you from 6-C to 6-A

Why not... It definitely can... And it's not only his Haki, it's when he actually start fighting seriously

Jinbe and Who's Who both confirmed that his rokushiki would cut through his armament haki.

Read the whole post... Wasn't finished

So basically... Jinbe is stalling who's who the entire fight, not even using arm haki in the beginning... Then after Who's who starts fully trying... Jinbe then easily defends Who's who attack, making him having to go all out to be able to start damaging him

After that we see Jinbe a little more serious easily defend against an even stronger attack than before and easily overpower him, still being able to stall him with arm haki

After that, Who's who uses finger pistol which seems to take Jinbe a little off guard as he doesn't fully see it coming, getting stabbed in his stomach area and weakening a bit... Having to start using more of his Haki against the finger pistols and starts getting serious to which Who's who attacks completely gets tanked, after getting serious... Who's who attacks no matter what he tries can't even scratch Jinbe which then Jinbe easily one shots him

Like come on now...

Calling all of Jinbes God tier scalings (Big mom sword block, big mom getting pushed away, stopping big mom attack in wano, blocking akainu attack in marineford, stated to be a very valuable addition to the crew) outliers based on those 4 reasons is absolutely bs

 

[Damage3245]

by using Haki... If you use DF and Haki, it will work the same as before unless you have higher arm haki

There's no indication that Jinbe infused Haki into the tea he shot at Luffy & Katakuri's arm.

 

[KingTempest]

by using Haki... If you use DF and Haki, it will work the same as before unless you have higher arm haki

This is not true.
Greater haki stops other haki abilities from working.
Him getting wet is not a haki ability.

... what

You're acting like the year matters when we're talking about 15 year old scaling

Why not... It definitely can... And it's not only his Haki, it's when he actually start fighting seriously

No, it can not, and that's a cop out

Read the whole post... Wasn't finished

Calling all of Jinbes God tier scalings (Big mom sword block, big mom getting pushed away, stopping big mom attack in wano, blocking akainu attack in marineford, stated to be a very valuable addition to the crew) outliers based on those 4 reasons is absolutely bs

When his actual scaling has him far weaker.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

There's no indication that Jinbe infused Haki into the tea he shot at Luffy & Katakuri's arm.

... The indication being that Katakuri's mochi wasn't sticky anymore

This is not true.
Greater haki stops other haki abilities from working.
Him getting wet is not a haki ability.

It is literally true... His DF losing it's stickyness from moisture while still having Haki infused means Jinbe's Haki was higher than Katakuris, where the moisture was still able to affect his DF

Cutting attacks affects Luffy's stretchiness, Luffy infusing both Haki and stretchiness makes it so that he's still able to be stretchy

Luffy, who fused the power of his armament color and rubber, made his armament color, which is normally hardened, more elastic. If an attack is made by an armament color lower than Luffy's, it will repel the attack as before.

You're acting like the year matters when we're talking about 15 year old scaling

Yes it does because we have all ready talked about it so much and every point of the ”anti feats” has gotten refuted many times

No, it can not, and that's a cop out

.... ”No, it can not” (such a good argument) while there's Chopper capable of doing it because of his DF, same with Daz bones, same with Bonney (I guess Bonney isn't that big of a jump but still) and more...

Haki > Dfs

When his actual scaling has him far weaker.

Prove that.. Otherwise no. His actual scaling of when he's serious and is trying, is him being a God tier

 

[KingTempest]

... The indication being that Katakuri's mochi wasn't sticky anymore

It is literally true... His DF losing it's stickyness from moisture while still having Haki infused means Jinbe's Haki was higher than Katakuris, where the moisture was still able to affect his DF

Cutting attacks affects Luffy's stretchiness, Luffy infusing both Haki and stretchiness makes it so that he's still able to be stretchy

Because Haki makes you keep your attributes, and also your weaknesses. Luffy is still stretchy but he can still be pierced by sharp things without haki. Katakuri is still sticky but he can be washed by things without haki.

Yes it does because we have all ready talked about it so much and every point of the ”anti feats” has gotten refuted many times

.... ”No, it can not” (such a good argument) while there's Chopper capable of doing it because of his DF, same with Daz bones, same with Bonney (I guess Bonney isn't that big of a jump but still) and more...

"Haki won't do it"
"Here's someone with a devil fruit transformation"
You're just yapping.
Bonney's is a transformation and Daz is the same tier.

Haki > Dfs

Pure yap

Prove that.. Otherwise no. His actual scaling of when he's serious and is trying, is him being a God tier

And struggles with luffy

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Because Haki makes you keep your attributes, and also your weaknesses. Luffy is still stretchy but he can still be pierced by sharp things without haki. Katakuri is still sticky but he can be washed by things without haki.

Just not true and made no sense... Haki keeps your attributes as you said... Yes, the only ”weakness” they then have with their ability is if someone else overpowers their Haki first and then affects their ability, otherwise they aren't still ”keeping their attributes”

"Haki won't do it"
"Here's someone with a devil fruit transformation"
You're just yapping.

And you aren't refuting anything... Jinbe's God tiers feats still exists and your reasoning for being outliers are bs and refuted

Bonney's is a transformation and Daz is the same tier.

Daz is higher than Mihawks cutting attacks, there's more DF users that can jump very high but as you said it doesn't really matter (tho Haki > Df still )

Pure yap

Pure truth.

And struggles with luffy

You're legit capping and have not even tried to refute what I said... Tell that to every God Tier in Marineford who struggled to take out PRE TIMESKIP LUFFY

You acting disingenuously against him makes me suspect the main reason why

 

[KingTempest]

Okay **** everything else

Just not true and made no sense... Haki keeps your attributes as you said... Yes, the only ”weakness” they then have with their ability is if someone else overpowers their Haki first and then affects their ability, otherwise they aren't still ”keeping their attributes”

Is Luffy not stretchy when he applies haki on himself?
And can Luffy not be harmed by piercing objects that don't have haki?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Is Luffy not stretchy when he applies haki on himself?

Luffy is stretchy when combining stretchyness (Gear 4 being in a constant stretchyness state) and Armament Haki (Or like red hawk, where he's stretching ability gets infused with Armament)... Where then cutting attacks will get repelled the same as before (Blunt attacks, being both hardend and still elastic)

And can Luffy not be harmed by piercing objects that don't have haki?

No... Unless they first are able to overcome the Haki itself... With one being Haki superiority another being be overusing Haki to the point of deactivation

 

[KingTempest]

Luffy is stretchy when combining stretchyness (Gear 4 being in a constant stretchyness state) and Armament Haki (Or like red hawk, where he's stretching ability gets infused with Armament)... Where then cutting attacks will get repelled the same as before (Blunt attacks, being both hardend and still elastic)

No... Unless they first are able to overcome the Haki itself... With one being Haki superiority another being be overusing Haki to the point of deactivation

Hody Jones without a lick of haki bit through Luffy's armament haki and took a chunk out of Luffy.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Hody Jones without a lick of haki bit through Luffy's armament haki and took a chunk out of Luffy.

ok..? That literally has nothing to do with what I said?

Or even what we're talking about...

 

[KingTempest]

ok..? That literally has nothing to do with what I said?

Or even what we're talking about...

So you can be affected by shit past armament haki.
Without armament haki.

 

[Antvasima]

The revision (in the stats section) should stay reverted.
The revision (in the notable attacks section) should change to what Jropzone1 changed it to.

Are you willing to handle it please? The current statistics for Garp intuitively seem self-contradictory to me.

 

[KingTempest]

Are you willing to handle it please? The current statistics for Garp intuitively seem self-contradictory to me.

Yeah gimme a minute

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

So you can be affected by shit past armament haki.

no... What you're saying has absolutely no correlation at all

First of all Luffy didn't even use Armament Haki.. So no Hody didn't ”bite through Luffy's haki”

He only says that his Haki isn't as good as against consistent very sharp piercing attacks than against blows, that's his own issue with his Haki usage... Nothing to do with him combining his Haki and Df

You and I both know that Luffy is inverse immune to blunt attacks based on him simply stretching/nullifying the attack potency, the same happens to Luffy's armament Haki when he combines them both

Luffy, who fused the power of his armament color and rubber, made his armament color, which is normally hardened, more elastic. If an attack is made by an armament color lower than Luffy's, it will repel the attack as before.

Making the attack both hardend and stretching.... Nullifying the potency as it would do when blunt attacks hit Luffy's rubber body...

There's then no correlation with Luffy having a harder time defending against very potent and sharp attacks with his Haki compared to blows/blunt ones (2 different utlization of arm Haki)

And can Luffy not be harmed by piercing objects that don't have haki?

By that; no whenever combining his Df and Haki, they only way then would be;

With one using Haki superiority another being be overusing Haki to the point of deactivation

Since the Haki usage has now both properties of hardening and elasticity, same would be for Katakuri's Haki usage of combining hardening and Stickyness/softness

 

[KingTempest]

no... What you're saying has absolutely no correlation at all

First of all Luffy didn't even use Armament Haki.. So no Hody didn't ”bite through Luffy's haki”

He only says that his Haki isn't as good as against consistent very sharp piercing attacks than against blows, that's his own issue with his Haki usage... Nothing to do with him combining his Haki and Df

You and I both know that Luffy is inverse immune to blunt attacks based on him simply stretching/nullifying the attack potency, the same happens to Luffy's armament Haki when he combines them both

Making the attack both hardend and stretching.... Nullifying the potency as it would do when blunt attacks hit Luffy's rubber body...

There's then no correlation with Luffy having a harder time defending against very potent and sharp attacks with his Haki compared to blows/blunt ones (2 different utlization of arm Haki)

You grabbed a scan of him saying that his armament isn't good enough to say he didn't use it and built your point off of it

By that; no whenever combining his Df and Haki, they only way then would be;

You're out of your mind.

Since the Haki usage has now both properties of hardening and elasticity, same would be for Katakuri's Haki usage of combining hardening and Stickyness/softness

Stickyness/softness, which is still mitigated by?????
Water.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You grabbed a scan of him saying that his armament isn't good enough to say he didn't use it and built your point off of it

no... He literality isn't shown using it... We literally get a full clear shot of Hody bitting Luffy... Yet there's no hardening

The scan for him ssaying he isn't going good enough is to tell you that it's his own armament haki issue having a harder time against potent and sharp attacks that are continously piercing him... It's a simple potency issue and has no correlation with the properties of Haki and Dfs combining

You're out of your mind.

Literally says it... Idk what you trying to say

You're out of your eyes , must have been affected by Luffy's Nika powers or something

Stickyness/softness, which is still mitigated by?????
Water.

By water when there's no Haki since it's also HARDENDED, Haki hardening would first need to be overpowered (and since it's also soft... The potences gets nullified, making you have to either have higher lvls of Haki or make them exhaust their Haki)

 

[KingTempest]

no... He literality isn't shown using it... We literally get a full clear shot of Hody bitting Luffy... Yet there's no hardening

The scan for him ssaying he isn't going good enough is to tell you that it's his own armament haki issue having a harder time against potent and sharp attacks that are continously piercing him... Is a simple potency issue and has no correlation with the properties of Haki and Dfs

You do realize busoshoku can be invisible correct?

Literally says it... Idk what you trying to say

You're out of your eyes , must have been affected by Luffy's Nika powers or something

Never says it at all. He literally said "hey you can beat katakuri's ability with moisture" and you took it as overpowering when jinbe didn't even move his arm at all

By water when there's no Haki since it's also HARDENDED, Haki hardening would first need to be overpowered

No, it would not.

Nothing says that haki needs to be overpowered to affect a devil fruit user through their weakness.
Crocodile can't fullbody haki himself then go shower. That is entirely your headcanon that isn't proven

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You do realize busoshoku can be invisible correct?

Sure.. But we literally see Luffy use the more potent hardening every time he faces against attacks like that...

Never says it at all. He literally said "hey you can beat katakuri's ability with moisture" and you took it as overpowering when jinbe didn't even move his arm at all

What...? It says it here is what I meant

Luffy, who fused the power of his armament color and rubber, made his armament color, which is normally hardened, more elastic. If an attack is made by an armament color lower than Luffy's, it will repel the attack as before.

Otherwise what Jinbe said is factually correct when speaking solely on his paramecia powers and not Katakuri's usage of Haki and Df

Crocodile can't fullbody haki himself then go shower. That is entirely your headcanon that isn't proven

It simply isn't my headcanon as it's shown with Luffy and is stated, with katakuri also being similar to Luffy's power....

Bringing up a Logia ability is different since yes we know nothing about how that would even work, I don't even think we have seen a Logia user show hardening whenever they use Haki... You keep bringing up these comparisons and correlations that are just not the same thing or we don't have any information on to justify you're reason to go against something that is both shown and stated

Crocodile also wasn't affected by the fluidity of magma... Which can be considered more evidence against your claim

Nothing says that haki needs to be overpowered to affect a devil fruit user through their weakness.

Luffy, who fused the power of his armament color and rubber, made his armament color, which is normally hardened, more elastic. If an attack is made by an armament color lower than Luffy's, it will repel the attack as before.

 

[Stefano4444]

He both outpaced him and overpowered his arm haki, the same one Gear 4th Snakeman couldn't escape

Jinbe used water to free Luffy not raw strength, also that wasn't even the same techinque and Katakuri has yet to going all out.

Also Jinbe outpacing Katakuri? The same Jinbe who couldn't intercept and stop Katakuri despite be in front of him?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Also Jinbe outpacing Katakuri? The same Jinbe who couldn't intercept and stop Katakuri despite be in front of him?

Future sight exists...

Jinbe used water to free Luffy not raw strength, also that wasn't even the same techinque and Katakuri has yet to going all out.

I'm not saying raw strength (he would then be hurting even Luffy)... I'm saying Jinbe has higher arm haki levels to both Snakeman and Katakuri, as he was able to affect his devil fruit ability even tho he guarded it with Haki

 

[SlendVeny]

There's no indication that Jinbe infused Haki into the tea he shot at Luffy & Katakuri's arm.

Like, I'm the #1 Jinbe fan and even I ain't saying this shit.

 

[SlendVeny]

Future sight exists...

Plenty of things exist.