- 20,696
- 14,903
They 2v1'd Kaku when they beat him, as the anime indicates.
The clashes themselves are both mid-air for Kaku and S-Hawk, but only Kaku's pushed Zoro back.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
One Piece: Egghead
- Thread starter Kachon123
- Start date
-
- Tags
- one piece (verse)
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,507
- 6,800
Yeah, which is why it's generous to use S-Hawk running from the whole group of four to imply all four are on a similar level or that individually the four are too much for S-Hawk on his own.
S-Hawk running came down to the efficiency of completing his task not a measurement of power levels, as Lucci described their goal was to quickly take out the weaker targets so the stronger ones would waver.
Both instances Zoro was pushed back.
Last edited:
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,507
- 6,800
The anime doesn't explicitly depict it as Diable Jambe and in the manga visually it's hard to distinguish if he's using it or not.
Personally I think it was diable jambe based on the name and the explosion caused by the impact.
- 34,541
- 34,962
I think that Sanji did use Diable Jambe for that.
- 20,526
- 15,199
just explain the problems and what you think the solutions are to those problems and then boom, you don't need to invest that much... Kinda, hopefully 
gg
- 20,696
- 14,903
Speaking of DJ, how do we view Zoro fighting DJ Sanji evenly at the start of Egghead?
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,507
- 6,800
It's listed on the profiles, MOL did bring up that it should be listed as Combat speed instead of reaction speed tho.
- 20,696
- 14,903
Same with Bepo, he should get an addition for his Sulong form.
- 18,140
- 13,942
Bepo
Bepo is a polar bear mink and the navigator of the Heart Pirates. Bepo tends to get depressed easily and apologizes whenever people point out that he's a talking polar bear. Tier: Unknown possibly 6-C, 5-C in Sulong Name: Bepo Origin: One Piece Gender: Male Age: 20-22 Classification: Polar Bear...
vsbattles.fandom.com
- 20,696
- 14,903
For Base Kaku, why not have him at 753 exatons and just say "comparable to Base Zoro, but weaker"? Since he was initially scared of Base Zoro I think him being weaker is fine, but them fighting off-screen in base with no decisive winner means that Base Zoro shouldn't be double his power.
Also, his Awakened Form's durability should be 753 exatons on its own, but 3 zettatons with buso haki since Buso Zoro couldn't cut it and it endured a slam from buso zoro (of course, this is durability only, not AP since he couldn't actually match Buso Zoro's AP).
Btw, what about Koby? Does he get tier 5 for destroying Pizarro's island arm?
Also, his Awakened Form's durability should be 753 exatons on its own, but 3 zettatons with buso haki since Buso Zoro couldn't cut it and it endured a slam from buso zoro (of course, this is durability only, not AP since he couldn't actually match Buso Zoro's AP).
I forgot.Bepo
Bepo is a polar bear mink and the navigator of the Heart Pirates. Bepo tends to get depressed easily and apologizes whenever people point out that he's a talking polar bear. Tier: Unknown possibly 6-C, 5-C in Sulong Name: Bepo Origin: One Piece Gender: Male Age: 20-22 Classification: Polar Bear...
Btw, what about Koby? Does he get tier 5 for destroying Pizarro's island arm?
Last edited:
- 6,432
- 4,295
BB's devil fruit makes it so he takes extra damage, this isn't a good feat
- 18,140
- 13,942
Impel Down
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,507
- 6,800
Since Kaku, S-Hawk, and Zoro keep coming up, I want to go over my thoughts on their scaling justifications in the sandbox in depth now that I have full access to scans and my PC again
S-Hawk:
He's currently being given a justification for "clashing" with Zoro. First of all, the version of Zoro being referred to is the one using two swords coated in CoA, which, to my knowledge, scales above the level that S-Hawk is currently placed at. However, the issue with using these two interactions as scaling justifications is that they weren't genuine clashes, Zoro was blocking S-Hawk's strikes, which were aimed at the Satellites. In both instances, Zoro successfully blocked the attacks and was shown smiling, while S-Hawk appeared to show fear. Zoro even commented on his fear during the first "clash," and in the second, S-Hawk ran from Zoro shortly after the encounter. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to continue using this as a justification for his AP.
(Scans)
The other issue is that, as far as I can tell, there isn’t a valid reason for him to scale to Small Planet level (753.448 exatons) with his Devil Fruit. The second justification doesn’t hold up, as both Zoro and Luffy dodged to protect Lucci and Kaku, who were powerless. In fact, they did the exact same thing earlier when S-Hawk used his regular swordsmanship, which is considered weaker than his Devil Fruit-enhanced attacks in the sandbox.
(Scans)
Kaku:
First, I want to address Kaku's Rokushiki techniques. As the justifications are currently presented, they place undue emphasis on certain techniques as being Kaku's strongest. This is what KT was pointing out in his previous post. White Thunder is absolutely not one of Kaku's most powerful Rokushiki techniques. Rather, the two techniques he used against S-Hawk are the same ones he used at the very start of his fight against Zoro in the pre-timeskip, and those were handled with relative ease compared to the techniques he used later in the fight. Slaughter is simply him spamming regular Tempest Kicks with both legs, and White Thunder is just a regular Tempest Kick executed with both legs simultaneously. The only Tempest Kick that is explicitly stated to be superior to the others is Sky Slicer, which builds up momentum before launching a dual-legged Tempest Kick. Kaku himself describes this technique as his strongest. Given this, it doesn't make sense to rate White Thunder above his base level.
(Scans)
Now, regarding the actual feats Kaku performed against S-Hawk: with his Tempest Kick Slaughter, the justification claims he "pressured" S-Hawk and forced him to defend himself. I disagree with this, as S-Hawk was not actually forced to defend—at the time, he still had his flame on and was more than capable of tanking the attack directly. It's simply in his nature, due to having Mihawk’s bloodline element, to instinctively defend against any attack with his blade. I also disagree with the assertion that S-Hawk was "pressured" From what I can see in the scan, S-Hawk was easily able to deflect every Tempest Kick sent his way. This justification would be more appropriate as a feat for S-Hawk rather than Kaku.
(Scans)
For White Thunder, the justification states that it "matched Zoro's Purgatory Onigiri." This would imply that it not only scales directly to Zoro's CoA rating but even higher, as Purgatory Onigiri is a technique that scales above Zoro's base physicals. This assumes that the two attacks actually matchedd with equal force. However, that assumption is contradicted by Kaku's direct feats against Zoro. The first interaction, which I’ve already covered in previous posts, shows Zoro destroying Kaku’s Sky Slicer using just one sword, without the aid of CoA or any named techniques. As I previously mentioned, Sky Slicer is explicitly stated to be Kaku’s strongest Tempest Kick, placing it above White Thunder.
The second relevant feat occurs during Kaku’s fight with Zoro in his Awakened form, where he not only used Rokushiki techniques like Nose Pistol and Kiliman-Gyro, but also enhanced their power further with CoA and his Awakened state (which, as we know, scales above his Hybrid form, which itself scales above his base form; the one used when performing White Thunder). This is relevant because in the pre-timeskip fight, Hybrid Kaku’s Nose Pistol gave Zoro more trouble than White Thunder did, even forcing Zoro to use stat-amping techniques to overcome it. Meanwhile, Kiliman-Gyro is an improved version of his Extreme Nose Pistol Giraffe Blast, which in turn is an enhanced version of Nose Pistol.
All of this is significant because Zoro, using CoA, was able to overpower Awakened Kaku’s CoA-coated Kiliman-Gyro without resorting to any named techniques. Given these feats, it doesn’t make sense to claim that White Thunder is on par with Zoro’s CoA-enhanced Purgatory Onigiri, as the justification suggests.
(Scans)
Their justifications would look like the following with these feats removed, although I'll wait for further comments on how they could be better revised into the profiles:
S-Hawk:
He's currently being given a justification for "clashing" with Zoro. First of all, the version of Zoro being referred to is the one using two swords coated in CoA, which, to my knowledge, scales above the level that S-Hawk is currently placed at. However, the issue with using these two interactions as scaling justifications is that they weren't genuine clashes, Zoro was blocking S-Hawk's strikes, which were aimed at the Satellites. In both instances, Zoro successfully blocked the attacks and was shown smiling, while S-Hawk appeared to show fear. Zoro even commented on his fear during the first "clash," and in the second, S-Hawk ran from Zoro shortly after the encounter. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to continue using this as a justification for his AP.
(Scans)
The other issue is that, as far as I can tell, there isn’t a valid reason for him to scale to Small Planet level (753.448 exatons) with his Devil Fruit. The second justification doesn’t hold up, as both Zoro and Luffy dodged to protect Lucci and Kaku, who were powerless. In fact, they did the exact same thing earlier when S-Hawk used his regular swordsmanship, which is considered weaker than his Devil Fruit-enhanced attacks in the sandbox.
(Scans)
Kaku:
First, I want to address Kaku's Rokushiki techniques. As the justifications are currently presented, they place undue emphasis on certain techniques as being Kaku's strongest. This is what KT was pointing out in his previous post. White Thunder is absolutely not one of Kaku's most powerful Rokushiki techniques. Rather, the two techniques he used against S-Hawk are the same ones he used at the very start of his fight against Zoro in the pre-timeskip, and those were handled with relative ease compared to the techniques he used later in the fight. Slaughter is simply him spamming regular Tempest Kicks with both legs, and White Thunder is just a regular Tempest Kick executed with both legs simultaneously. The only Tempest Kick that is explicitly stated to be superior to the others is Sky Slicer, which builds up momentum before launching a dual-legged Tempest Kick. Kaku himself describes this technique as his strongest. Given this, it doesn't make sense to rate White Thunder above his base level.
(Scans)
Now, regarding the actual feats Kaku performed against S-Hawk: with his Tempest Kick Slaughter, the justification claims he "pressured" S-Hawk and forced him to defend himself. I disagree with this, as S-Hawk was not actually forced to defend—at the time, he still had his flame on and was more than capable of tanking the attack directly. It's simply in his nature, due to having Mihawk’s bloodline element, to instinctively defend against any attack with his blade. I also disagree with the assertion that S-Hawk was "pressured" From what I can see in the scan, S-Hawk was easily able to deflect every Tempest Kick sent his way. This justification would be more appropriate as a feat for S-Hawk rather than Kaku.
(Scans)
For White Thunder, the justification states that it "matched Zoro's Purgatory Onigiri." This would imply that it not only scales directly to Zoro's CoA rating but even higher, as Purgatory Onigiri is a technique that scales above Zoro's base physicals. This assumes that the two attacks actually matchedd with equal force. However, that assumption is contradicted by Kaku's direct feats against Zoro. The first interaction, which I’ve already covered in previous posts, shows Zoro destroying Kaku’s Sky Slicer using just one sword, without the aid of CoA or any named techniques. As I previously mentioned, Sky Slicer is explicitly stated to be Kaku’s strongest Tempest Kick, placing it above White Thunder.
The second relevant feat occurs during Kaku’s fight with Zoro in his Awakened form, where he not only used Rokushiki techniques like Nose Pistol and Kiliman-Gyro, but also enhanced their power further with CoA and his Awakened state (which, as we know, scales above his Hybrid form, which itself scales above his base form; the one used when performing White Thunder). This is relevant because in the pre-timeskip fight, Hybrid Kaku’s Nose Pistol gave Zoro more trouble than White Thunder did, even forcing Zoro to use stat-amping techniques to overcome it. Meanwhile, Kiliman-Gyro is an improved version of his Extreme Nose Pistol Giraffe Blast, which in turn is an enhanced version of Nose Pistol.
All of this is significant because Zoro, using CoA, was able to overpower Awakened Kaku’s CoA-coated Kiliman-Gyro without resorting to any named techniques. Given these feats, it doesn’t make sense to claim that White Thunder is on par with Zoro’s CoA-enhanced Purgatory Onigiri, as the justification suggests.
(Scans)
Their justifications would look like the following with these feats removed, although I'll wait for further comments on how they could be better revised into the profiles:
Last edited:
- 20,696
- 14,903
Will wait to see what others think about the Kaku stuff, but the S-Hawk stuff looks ok.
And for Kaku's durability, Stussy did not use sea stone on him, only Lucci.
- 20,696
- 14,903
Also, didn't all 5 Elders tank a fire attack from Sabo without any injury?
- 34,541
- 34,962
Strictly speaking, while I did use to believe that, we also know all 5 of them can rapidly and effortlesly regenerate so it's possible that they took some damage from the attack and the next time we saw them they were silhouettes and transformed so we don't get a good look at them to say either way.
- 20,696
- 14,903
They don't transform until after the fireball ends IIRC, plus we don't get any indication that they took damage (especially since this was before the Elders were shown to have regen abilities).
- 34,541
- 34,962
We don't get any indication that they didn't take damage either, so it's a moot point.
- 20,696
- 14,903
Not to sound pushy, but any progress on this?
The fact that when the fire clears they all look fine even before transforming?
- 34,541
- 34,962
They're complete silhouettes and the regeneration is fast.
- 23,369
- 21,103
- Thread starter
- #147
There has been progress for sure, but things keep popping up... The moving process is difficult
- 20,696
- 14,903
Then I guess the best we have is to scale Saturn's body to Base Sanji kicking his leg away, since his leg doesn't take any damage from Sanji's kick.
Bananossauro
They/Them- 104
- 64
I think it's that it hurt G5 luffy
- 177,318
- 90,194
Anyone?Which staff members think what here so far?
- 2,174
- 3,364
Where is the 59 zettatons from
- 2,174
- 3,364
You should probably add that to the scaling notes in the verse profile sandbox.
