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I’m here to argue for characters in One Piece to be buffed ap wise and speed wise.
Let’s start.
First off, the Wiki has Luffy at Relativistic+ In speed and Large Mountain+ AP. I’m going to show why this is too far lowballed. The real problem is that this wiki has Luffy at his weakest at mountain, and his strongest at mountain. How that work?
First, in Skypiea, God Enel was about to destroy all of Skypiea in a single blow, via Raigoh. This attack destroyed Angel Island, so at the lowest it’s an island busting feat, but as stated by Enel, there was no escape in the country. Take that as you will. But this attack has more busting power than Luffy’s scale. Luffy defeated this man, and before you say “well he was immune to lightning”, the attack would’ve worked just as well had Luffy used Haki. He still damaged an opponent capable of island busting feats (As extra, both Nami and Usopp can dodge lightning bolts).
Next, we move to Enies Lobby. Using CP9 as a base. The power level used by the group, Blueno is at 820. For Luffy to defeat him, he should be equal or higher to that in Gear 2 (he was far stronger than Blueno though). Rob Lucci’s power level is 4000. Nearly 5x that of Blueno. In the battle of Lucci vs Luffy, Lucci was evened out with Luffy strength wise, even tanking a punch from Gear 3, which is superior to his base. Lucci > Enel, strength and durability wise. Gear 3 gives Luffy’s arm or leg the size of a giant’s. The difference in mass is more than 10x obviously. I think it’s only fair that both Lucci and Luffy should be Large Island AP, scaling up from Enel (Kaku and Jabra should also scale up from Enel, being at least equal to him, as they are both stronger than Blueno, with power levels of 2200 and 2180). Chopper in Monster Point should scale to Large Island, as Kumadori has a power level of 810, near equal to Blueno, and can use Iron Body, which is superior to Luffy’s attacks in base (same base Luffy that badly damaged Enel)
And speed wise, all members of CP9 use Shave, which was originally able to blitz all of the Straw Hats, the weakest of which could dodge lightning. In Enies Lobby, all of the Straw Hats could keep up with their speed. Especially the Monster Trio.
Blackbeard vs Ace. Both are island level, as their fight affected the entire island and destroyed everything on it. Keep in mind that here Blackbeard stated that his fruit grants him infinite gravity. Ace loses, Blackbeard is superior to Ace. Ace is small island level.
Next we use Thriller Bark to scale from Oars. In the Vivre Card data book, it’s stated that Oars created a new country by piecing several countries together. His nickname is the Continent Puller, so it’s safe to say he’d physically move countries. This would make Oars Small Country minimum, as his lifting strength should scale to pulling countries together (don’t say that he’s weaker when dead. He was buffed with shadows and given Luffy’s DF so even if he was a zombie, he was arguably stronger than he was alive). Now with that being said, almost all of the Straw Hats tanked attacks from Oars (to say they were still in fighting condition). Durability buff? I don’t know for sure (Quick note that Sanji and Zoro could block attacks from and hurt Oars) But I do know that Nightmare Luffy was far stronger than Oars. Nightmare Luffy has Country AP from this. Possible that Zoro and Sanji do too, being able to tank attacks and hurt Oars. After Nightmare Luffy was no more, he still defeated Oars using Gigant Bazooka, a Gear 3 attack. Luffy should scale to Oars in Gear 3. At the end of Thriller Bark we meet Kuma. Kuma stated himself that his attacks were light speed. Zoro dodged these very attacks one after another consistently. It isn’t reaction speed, as he was barraged with attacks. This is his combat speed. More than 3 reactions. Zoro is Relativistic+ speed wise. Next.
Sabaody Arc. Using Kizaru and Pacifistas. Kizaru is minimum light speed, as it’s not confirmed that he caps of at light speed, and we haven’t seen him fight seriously. So his base speed is light. Now if you actually did the math to calculate a kick from Kizaru, you’d find that at 99% the Speed of Light, he’d be able to wipe a country from the map. But I won’t use that since were already at country level. Kizaru’s speed is superior to all Supernovas, but we can argue that they are superior or equal to Zoro, since they rival Luffy, and have higher bounties.
Luffy did in fact dodge light beams before the timeskip, before he had Haki. People like to nerf Luffy’s speed because he has precognition, not realizing that even if he did, his body still must be fast enough to dodge. And it wasn’t aim dodging, as Luffy could only dodge at the last second. This Luffy is probably in the realm of Sub-Relativistic or Massively Hypersonic. Buuut, Luffy in Gear 2 is superior to Zoro in base. And from Thriller Bark, we know that Zoro is already Relativistic+. He couldn’t show off any good feats in Sabaody only because he was badly injured. Yet he could still avoid light beams. Now Rayleigh is equal to Kizaru. He was able to not only intercept his attacks from a distance, but match him to the point that Kizaru wasn’t able to leave or Rayleigh would likely injure him. Kizaru is made of light, and light can not move slower than light speed. So Rayleigh is definitely at least Speed of Light. It’s only natural since he’s superior to the Straw Hats.
Timeskip. I can make the argument that Luffy got 100x faster during 3D2Y by beating Byrnndi World, but some people don’t like accepting this as canon, which doesn’t make sense, as it’s literally what happened during the two years Luffy was away from the public eye. It also explains why he’d call light beams “too slow”. So yeah, FTL Luffy (Rayleigh is superior to Luffy in Gear 4 via blitzing and one shotting him so remember that. Rayleigh scales to Gear 4 Luffy). If light by itself is too slow, you’re faster than it. Simple logic.
Dressrosa. Now this is where it gets good. To scale Luffy’s AP any higher, we have to scale from Sai of the Happosui Army. Don Chinjao back in the day was stated to be able to split the Jewel Ice Sheet A.K.A. the Ice Continent, in half using his drill head. Before anyone tries to say “ah, it was ice, or the ice was shallow, or it wasn’t a continent”. The ice was stated to be more durable than steel. So that gets rid of the ice thing. You tell me what’s harder to break, steel, or rock and dirt. Also, an Ice Sheet, is a continental glacier by definition. So yes, the Jewel Ice Sheet is indeed a continent that Chinjao split in half. There are no contradictions to this, so it’s fair game. Garp one shotted Chinjao, Garp is continental ap minimum (it was also stated that he casually busted 5 mountains as a warm up for this fight, but OP characters aren’t above Mountain level? That’s stupid). Anyway, Garp’s fist punched inward Chinjao’s drill head, making him unable to get back into the Jewel Ice Sheet. In Dressrosa, Luffy in Gear 3 one shotted Chinjao and reformed his drill head. This should take equal force as Garp’s fist, but most might say that Chinjao is old so it doesn’t count. That’s where good ol’ Sai comes in handy. Sai fought Chinjao, and bent his drill head with his foot, defeating him in battle. Chinjao himself, stated, that Sai was now strong enough to get into the Jewel Ice Sheet. That makes Sai equal or stronger than prime Chinjao. Sai, via Dragon Drill Nail, is continental ap. And I don’t wanna hear “but he only opened the continent using a sharp point”. Sai’s whole FOOT with that clunky boot, can get inside the Ice Sheet. It’s a literal kick. That counts. Sai is inferior to Luffy of course, as he serves under the Grand Fleet. Sai scales to Lao G, Doflamingo is superior to both. So, now that that’s out the way, Doflamingo is continental ap minimum, which scales to Law, who nearly killed him, Trebol, who nearly killed Law, and survived a fatal blow from Law, and Diamanté, who is relative to Trebol (this serves as continental ap to Sabo, who is superior to Diamanté, and Fujitora, who is at least equal to Sabo. I also believe that gravity moves at light speed correct? Sabo can dodge Fujitora’s gravity, staying cosnistent with FTL characters. All of the admirals are relative to each other). Luffy in Gear 2 was shown to be relative to Doffy. Doffy said that when Luffy goes into Gear 4, he becomes 5x stronger. So Gear 4 Luffy is Multi Continental AP, and that scales to anyone relative to him. This 5x boost also goes for Luffy’s speed, as he became too fast for Doffy to react to, and speed blitzed him. Luffy is even more FTL if you didn’t think so before. And for Zoro, he’s continental by scaling to Pica who is superior to both Trebol and Diamanté. Sanji scales to Zoro.
Now that we have Luffy’s AP in Bounce Man, let’s see who scales to that. Cracker, who defeated Bounce Man, all of the Sweet Generals, who are superior to him, and of course Big Mom, who is relative to the other Yonko. Now let’s scale to Katakuri. Now Katakuri, annihilated Luffy while he was in Gear 4. This says a lot, because Luffy in Gear 4 is multi continental. So Katakuri is superior to everything Luffy has. By the end of the fight, base Luffy scaled to him. He could keep up speed wise, and could go blow for blow in base, Gear 2, and Gear 3. Gear 4 Snakeman (5x booster, superior to Bounce Man) defeated Katakuri. Considering the fact that Luffy got so much stronger during his fight, he should be Moon-Small Planet AP if anything, this scales to the Yonko, Sabo, Admirals, and anyone able to keep up with those characters or Gear 4 Luffy.
Wano. Gear 4 Luffy gets one shotted by Kaido. Kaido should be superior to Luffy by a long shot. Kaido should be planetary ap wise. Scaling to the other Yonko, including Whitebeard, Shanks, Mihawk, and all Admirals including Garp and Sengoku. Luffy does NOT scale to them. In Wano Luffy was able to harm Kaido via durability negation, not by strength. He still got smacked, so his scale ends there. Zoro scales to Luffy, Oden scales to Zoro as both of them have the same feat, damaging Kaido. You could argue that Oden scales to Kaido, but Whitebeard is far stronger than him. Also Blackbeard, who has no feats, scales to the other Yonko, as he soloed the Whitebeard Pirates including Marco. Marco is superior to Zoro.
Tell me what you think, be respectful, as this is simply a discussion, and all feats that I have mentioned are in the manga or anime of One Piece. Even if you disagree, you can’t avoid the fact that calling Luffy Mountain level is severely disrespectful as there are feats higher than Mountain level everywhere in the series almost.
Let’s start.
First off, the Wiki has Luffy at Relativistic+ In speed and Large Mountain+ AP. I’m going to show why this is too far lowballed. The real problem is that this wiki has Luffy at his weakest at mountain, and his strongest at mountain. How that work?
First, in Skypiea, God Enel was about to destroy all of Skypiea in a single blow, via Raigoh. This attack destroyed Angel Island, so at the lowest it’s an island busting feat, but as stated by Enel, there was no escape in the country. Take that as you will. But this attack has more busting power than Luffy’s scale. Luffy defeated this man, and before you say “well he was immune to lightning”, the attack would’ve worked just as well had Luffy used Haki. He still damaged an opponent capable of island busting feats (As extra, both Nami and Usopp can dodge lightning bolts).
Next, we move to Enies Lobby. Using CP9 as a base. The power level used by the group, Blueno is at 820. For Luffy to defeat him, he should be equal or higher to that in Gear 2 (he was far stronger than Blueno though). Rob Lucci’s power level is 4000. Nearly 5x that of Blueno. In the battle of Lucci vs Luffy, Lucci was evened out with Luffy strength wise, even tanking a punch from Gear 3, which is superior to his base. Lucci > Enel, strength and durability wise. Gear 3 gives Luffy’s arm or leg the size of a giant’s. The difference in mass is more than 10x obviously. I think it’s only fair that both Lucci and Luffy should be Large Island AP, scaling up from Enel (Kaku and Jabra should also scale up from Enel, being at least equal to him, as they are both stronger than Blueno, with power levels of 2200 and 2180). Chopper in Monster Point should scale to Large Island, as Kumadori has a power level of 810, near equal to Blueno, and can use Iron Body, which is superior to Luffy’s attacks in base (same base Luffy that badly damaged Enel)
And speed wise, all members of CP9 use Shave, which was originally able to blitz all of the Straw Hats, the weakest of which could dodge lightning. In Enies Lobby, all of the Straw Hats could keep up with their speed. Especially the Monster Trio.Blackbeard vs Ace. Both are island level, as their fight affected the entire island and destroyed everything on it. Keep in mind that here Blackbeard stated that his fruit grants him infinite gravity. Ace loses, Blackbeard is superior to Ace. Ace is small island level.
Next we use Thriller Bark to scale from Oars. In the Vivre Card data book, it’s stated that Oars created a new country by piecing several countries together. His nickname is the Continent Puller, so it’s safe to say he’d physically move countries. This would make Oars Small Country minimum, as his lifting strength should scale to pulling countries together (don’t say that he’s weaker when dead. He was buffed with shadows and given Luffy’s DF so even if he was a zombie, he was arguably stronger than he was alive). Now with that being said, almost all of the Straw Hats tanked attacks from Oars (to say they were still in fighting condition). Durability buff? I don’t know for sure (Quick note that Sanji and Zoro could block attacks from and hurt Oars) But I do know that Nightmare Luffy was far stronger than Oars. Nightmare Luffy has Country AP from this. Possible that Zoro and Sanji do too, being able to tank attacks and hurt Oars. After Nightmare Luffy was no more, he still defeated Oars using Gigant Bazooka, a Gear 3 attack. Luffy should scale to Oars in Gear 3. At the end of Thriller Bark we meet Kuma. Kuma stated himself that his attacks were light speed. Zoro dodged these very attacks one after another consistently. It isn’t reaction speed, as he was barraged with attacks. This is his combat speed. More than 3 reactions. Zoro is Relativistic+ speed wise. Next.
Sabaody Arc. Using Kizaru and Pacifistas. Kizaru is minimum light speed, as it’s not confirmed that he caps of at light speed, and we haven’t seen him fight seriously. So his base speed is light. Now if you actually did the math to calculate a kick from Kizaru, you’d find that at 99% the Speed of Light, he’d be able to wipe a country from the map. But I won’t use that since were already at country level. Kizaru’s speed is superior to all Supernovas, but we can argue that they are superior or equal to Zoro, since they rival Luffy, and have higher bounties.
Luffy did in fact dodge light beams before the timeskip, before he had Haki. People like to nerf Luffy’s speed because he has precognition, not realizing that even if he did, his body still must be fast enough to dodge. And it wasn’t aim dodging, as Luffy could only dodge at the last second. This Luffy is probably in the realm of Sub-Relativistic or Massively Hypersonic. Buuut, Luffy in Gear 2 is superior to Zoro in base. And from Thriller Bark, we know that Zoro is already Relativistic+. He couldn’t show off any good feats in Sabaody only because he was badly injured. Yet he could still avoid light beams. Now Rayleigh is equal to Kizaru. He was able to not only intercept his attacks from a distance, but match him to the point that Kizaru wasn’t able to leave or Rayleigh would likely injure him. Kizaru is made of light, and light can not move slower than light speed. So Rayleigh is definitely at least Speed of Light. It’s only natural since he’s superior to the Straw Hats.
Timeskip. I can make the argument that Luffy got 100x faster during 3D2Y by beating Byrnndi World, but some people don’t like accepting this as canon, which doesn’t make sense, as it’s literally what happened during the two years Luffy was away from the public eye. It also explains why he’d call light beams “too slow”. So yeah, FTL Luffy (Rayleigh is superior to Luffy in Gear 4 via blitzing and one shotting him so remember that. Rayleigh scales to Gear 4 Luffy). If light by itself is too slow, you’re faster than it. Simple logic.
Dressrosa. Now this is where it gets good. To scale Luffy’s AP any higher, we have to scale from Sai of the Happosui Army. Don Chinjao back in the day was stated to be able to split the Jewel Ice Sheet A.K.A. the Ice Continent, in half using his drill head. Before anyone tries to say “ah, it was ice, or the ice was shallow, or it wasn’t a continent”. The ice was stated to be more durable than steel. So that gets rid of the ice thing. You tell me what’s harder to break, steel, or rock and dirt. Also, an Ice Sheet, is a continental glacier by definition. So yes, the Jewel Ice Sheet is indeed a continent that Chinjao split in half. There are no contradictions to this, so it’s fair game. Garp one shotted Chinjao, Garp is continental ap minimum (it was also stated that he casually busted 5 mountains as a warm up for this fight, but OP characters aren’t above Mountain level? That’s stupid). Anyway, Garp’s fist punched inward Chinjao’s drill head, making him unable to get back into the Jewel Ice Sheet. In Dressrosa, Luffy in Gear 3 one shotted Chinjao and reformed his drill head. This should take equal force as Garp’s fist, but most might say that Chinjao is old so it doesn’t count. That’s where good ol’ Sai comes in handy. Sai fought Chinjao, and bent his drill head with his foot, defeating him in battle. Chinjao himself, stated, that Sai was now strong enough to get into the Jewel Ice Sheet. That makes Sai equal or stronger than prime Chinjao. Sai, via Dragon Drill Nail, is continental ap. And I don’t wanna hear “but he only opened the continent using a sharp point”. Sai’s whole FOOT with that clunky boot, can get inside the Ice Sheet. It’s a literal kick. That counts. Sai is inferior to Luffy of course, as he serves under the Grand Fleet. Sai scales to Lao G, Doflamingo is superior to both. So, now that that’s out the way, Doflamingo is continental ap minimum, which scales to Law, who nearly killed him, Trebol, who nearly killed Law, and survived a fatal blow from Law, and Diamanté, who is relative to Trebol (this serves as continental ap to Sabo, who is superior to Diamanté, and Fujitora, who is at least equal to Sabo. I also believe that gravity moves at light speed correct? Sabo can dodge Fujitora’s gravity, staying cosnistent with FTL characters. All of the admirals are relative to each other). Luffy in Gear 2 was shown to be relative to Doffy. Doffy said that when Luffy goes into Gear 4, he becomes 5x stronger. So Gear 4 Luffy is Multi Continental AP, and that scales to anyone relative to him. This 5x boost also goes for Luffy’s speed, as he became too fast for Doffy to react to, and speed blitzed him. Luffy is even more FTL if you didn’t think so before. And for Zoro, he’s continental by scaling to Pica who is superior to both Trebol and Diamanté. Sanji scales to Zoro.
Now that we have Luffy’s AP in Bounce Man, let’s see who scales to that. Cracker, who defeated Bounce Man, all of the Sweet Generals, who are superior to him, and of course Big Mom, who is relative to the other Yonko. Now let’s scale to Katakuri. Now Katakuri, annihilated Luffy while he was in Gear 4. This says a lot, because Luffy in Gear 4 is multi continental. So Katakuri is superior to everything Luffy has. By the end of the fight, base Luffy scaled to him. He could keep up speed wise, and could go blow for blow in base, Gear 2, and Gear 3. Gear 4 Snakeman (5x booster, superior to Bounce Man) defeated Katakuri. Considering the fact that Luffy got so much stronger during his fight, he should be Moon-Small Planet AP if anything, this scales to the Yonko, Sabo, Admirals, and anyone able to keep up with those characters or Gear 4 Luffy.
Wano. Gear 4 Luffy gets one shotted by Kaido. Kaido should be superior to Luffy by a long shot. Kaido should be planetary ap wise. Scaling to the other Yonko, including Whitebeard, Shanks, Mihawk, and all Admirals including Garp and Sengoku. Luffy does NOT scale to them. In Wano Luffy was able to harm Kaido via durability negation, not by strength. He still got smacked, so his scale ends there. Zoro scales to Luffy, Oden scales to Zoro as both of them have the same feat, damaging Kaido. You could argue that Oden scales to Kaido, but Whitebeard is far stronger than him. Also Blackbeard, who has no feats, scales to the other Yonko, as he soloed the Whitebeard Pirates including Marco. Marco is superior to Zoro.
Tell me what you think, be respectful, as this is simply a discussion, and all feats that I have mentioned are in the manga or anime of One Piece. Even if you disagree, you can’t avoid the fact that calling Luffy Mountain level is severely disrespectful as there are feats higher than Mountain level everywhere in the series almost.
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well I tried lol guess I’ll go back and try to scale my Webnovel
