One Piece: Calc Removal

[CloverDragon03]

I never said he aim-dodged it, I'm saying he isn't LS for dodging it which is objectively correct given what where shown.

It's not objectively correct though. The light gets super close to him and in the timeframe he moves a small distance, the light also moves a small distance (he had to have tilted his head before the light reached his face, which was a small distance away based on the anime)

And it's consistent with his "too slow" statement

I have no idea how the one-piece anime canonicity works so if it's usable then go ahead

The general rule of thumb is that the anime can be used as a secondary canon if the events don't contradict the manga's. This would be a case of that, as it's the same feat of Luffy dodging a laser

 

[That_moron2]

Aim Dodging is also a thing. Luffy had a clear view of the attack being charged & aimed at him.

Then he wouldn't have said too slow.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah just because Aim Dodging exists as a concept, doesn't mean it's what happened.

To me, the arguments against this calc's usage come from creating unnecessary assumptions for something that far simpler explanations can solve

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

It's not objectively correct though. The light gets super close to him and in the timeframe he moves a small distance, the light also moves a small distance (he had to have tilted his head before the light reached his face, which was a small distance away based on the anime)

And it's consistent with his "too slow" statement

Then calc it and if it's FTL movement then I'm fine with using it

But using manga there is no clear evidence that he dodged in that panel so both our assumptions are equally valid

In which case occums razor takes effect which I can say for certain would favor my interpretation of the events since Luffy at this point is still nowhere near admiral level yet

 

[CloverDragon03]

Okay, we're clearly at a bit of a misunderstanding, so lemme clear some things up.

Then calc it and if it's FTL movement then I'm fine with using it

This would be calc stacking if we applied this to the Kaido calc

In which case occums razor takes effect which I can say for certain would favor my interpretation of the events since Luffy at this point is still nowhere near admiral level yet

This has nothing to do with being Admiral level, what?

He considered light speed to be too slow specifically when he was using Kenbunshoku Haki (basically seeing into the future). Then, when fighting Kaido, he notes that Thunder Bagua was too fast, even when he was seeing into the future.

 

[SnookB]

He considered light speed to be too slow specifically when he was using Kenbunshoku Haki (basically seeing into the future). Then, when fighting Kaido, he notes that Thunder Bagua was too fast, even when he was seeing into the future.

Nah, he wasn't using Kenbun when he dodged the beam.
People just use that as cope for him being able to time light before One Piece was accepted as ftl. The only haki noted there is armament after he smacks the pacifista.

So natural perception Luffy considers light too slow, whereas FS Luffy considers Kaido too fast

 

[Stryker861]

He considered light speed to be too slow specifically when he was using Kenbunshoku Haki (basically seeing into the future). Then, when fighting Kaido, he notes that Thunder Bagua was too fast, even when he was seeing into the future.

it might be just me but the link isent working
edit: nvm

 

[CloverDragon03]

Nah, he wasn't using Kenbun when he dodged the beam.
People just use that as cope for him being able to time light before One Piece was accepted as ftl. The only haki noted there is armament after he smacks the pacifista.

So natural perception Luffy considers light too slow, whereas FS Luffy considers Kaido too fast

Well that's even more support for this. Dude didn't even need to see into the future to effortlessly dodge the laser, yet even when seeing the future, Thunder Bagua was too fast

 

[SnookB]

Well that's even more support for this. Dude didn't even need to see into the future to effortlessly dodge the laser, yet even when seeing the future, Thunder Bagua was too fast

And to say "he dodged it before it was fired" is a bad take when the anime itself has the feat looking like this

He waits until it's practically in the same frame before he tilts his head

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Okay, we're clearly at a bit of a misunderstanding, so lemme clear some things up.

This would be calc stacking if we applied this to the Kaido calc

If he has shown the ability to react to light from a distance less than one meter then he should qualify for LS reaction regardless of what the calc ends up being

This is why we are allowed to use subsonic+ reaction speeds in calcs for characters who consistently react to bullets from close range

This has nothing to do with being Admiral level, what?

It was an example of occams razor that I used

I am obviously aware that this has nothing to do with Luffy being admiral level

He considered light speed to be too slow specifically when he was using Kenbunshoku Haki (basically seeing into the future). Then, when fighting Kaido, he notes that Thunder Bagua was too fast, even when he was seeing into the future.

Him considering light to be to slow in this instance literally does nothing towards proving that his reactions are equal to LS/ 1 meter like we use in the wiki.

A baseball can be "To slow" to make it past the batter yet the batter's reaction are not the baseballs speed/ 1 meter

Your best bet like I said above is to calc it and then duke it out with Damage over whether it would qualify him for LS reactions

 

[SnookB]

Your best bet like I said above is to calc it and then duke it out with Damage over whether it would qualify him for LS reactions

You do realize if he was 50X ftl via a calc it still does not qualify for LS reactions and is therefore calc stacking, right?
The canon statement of him saying light is "too slow" is what qualifies for official LS reaction, not how easily he dodged it.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

You do realize if he was 50X ftl via a calc it still does not qualify for LS reactions and is therefore calc stacking, right?
The canon statement of him saying light is "too slow" is what qualifies for official LS reaction, not how easily he dodged it.

The the canon statement is not enough on it's own

That can literally be interpreted any number of ways

Once again him saying it's to slow to hit him does not mean his reactions are automatically equal to LS/1 meter

 

[CloverDragon03]

That can literally be interpreted any number of ways

Occam's Razor would favor me, as the simplest interpretation would be that Luffy simply views light as too slow. Requires zero assumptions, unlike any other interpretation

 

[SnookB]

That can literally be interpreted any number of ways

"Any number of ways" that you're purposefully creating and ignoring what's pretty much given on paper, yes.
He dodged a beam of light
he called it "too slow"
That's occam's razor. The right answer is the simplest> Luffy's reactions are equal to or superior than light speed

The rest of y'all are making up extra interpertations that aren't on page nor are supported by secondary canon.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Occam's Razor would favor me, as the simplest interpretation would be that Luffy simply views light as too slow. Requires zero assumptions, unlike any other interpretation

Occums Razor would deem that the ATTACK was to slow

He refers to the attack itself, that is the simplest assumption

Also apologies on my earlier claim that if it got ftl results you could argue LS reaction
I was misremembering

That only applies if he was reacting to the attack from less than a meter away which he unfortunately doesn't in this instance

 

[CloverDragon03]

Occums Razor would deem that the ATTACK was to slow

He refers to the attack itself, that is the simplest assumption

And the attack itself is SoL... So again, Occam's Razor would favor me

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

"Any number of ways" that you're purposefully creating and ignoring what's pretty much given on paper, yes.
He dodged a beam of light
he called it "too slow"
That's occam's razor. The right answer is the simplest> Luffy's reactions are equal to or superior than light speed

The rest of y'all are making up extra interpertations that aren't on page nor are supported by secondary canon.

He dodged an attack from a Pacifista

He called it "Too slow"

That's the simplest interpretation

 

[SnookB]

He dodged an attack from a Pacifista

He called it "Too slow"

That's the simplest interpretation

he's not refering to the Pacifista as too slow.
He's calling the laser beam too slow.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

And the attack itself is SoL... So again, Occam's Razor would favor me

The attack itself was once again done over a distance

Meaning that you don't get LS of of the statement alone

 

[CloverDragon03]

The attack itself was once again done over a distance

Meaning that you don't get LS of of the statement alone

This is where you're just adding stuff for the sake of adding stuff

The attack is SoL -> Luffy calls it too slow -> Therefore, SoL is too slow for Luffy

That's how Occam's Razor works

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

he's not refering to the Pacifista as too slow.
He's calling the laser beam too slow.

He's referring to the attack from the Pacifista, which is indeed light speed, attack which was from a distance away

 

[SnookB]

The distance has no bearing. Luffy isn't a damn mathematician.
He saw a beam of light
he waited for the beam of light
he avoided it once it got right in his face and called it too slow

What about that is hard to get

 

[CloverDragon03]

He's referring to the attack from the Pacifista, which is indeed light speed, attack which was from a distance away

And as shown in the anime, he didn't dodge until it was right up in his face, so this is a moot point

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also, Snook and Shmeaty, is now a bad time to mention that as a Calc Group Discussion thread, this is supposed to only be for CGMs? Though by now that may be pretty moot

 

[SnookB]

Also, Snook and Shmeaty, is now a bad time to mention that as a Calc Group Discussion thread, this is supposed to only be for CGMs? Though by now that may be pretty moot

apologies I straight up forgot
watching from the shadows

 

[CloverDragon03]

apologies I straight up forgot
watching from the shadows

He forgor

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

And as shown in the anime, he didn't dodge until it was right up in his face, so this is a moot point

That's fine go ahead and use the anime to get a exact value

I'm still firm in believing that by our current standards as of now the statement isn't enough to qualify for LS reaction

I'd ask Damage when you get the change

Also, Snook and Shmeaty, is now a bad time to mention that as a Calc Group Discussion thread, this is supposed to only be for CGMs? Though by now that may be pretty moot

"A board serving as a workshop for the calc group, to more easily discuss different calculations and wiki projects. Other members should only comment if they can provide information, or it is otherwise useful for a discussion."

I myself am contributing to the discussion and have contributed to other discussions as well

I also have quite a history with calcs as a pretty experienced calcer

I find it sort of rude that you would bring this up despite not saying anything for Kachon as it leads me to believe your doing it simply to remove me from the equation

 

[CloverDragon03]

"A board serving as a workshop for the calc group, to more easily discuss different calculations and wiki projects. Other members should only comment if they can provide information, or it is otherwise useful for a discussion."

I myself am contributing to the discussion and have contributed to other discussion as well

I also have quite a history with calcs as a pretty experienced calcer

I find it sort of rude that you would bring this up despite not saying anything for Kachon as it leads me to believe your doing it simply to remove me from the equation

Well first off, I mentioned Snook as well. I was actually pretty worried about this kinda reaction.

Second, I completely forgot Kachon was present in the thread ngl, probably because the ongoing discussion was between me, you, and Snook.

Third, my b on the rules. Should be fine for y'all to comment then, I just wanted to be sure. I 100% know the timing of this came off as me having less-than-honorable motives but I promise that wasn't my intention

 

[CloverDragon03]

That's fine go ahead and use the anime to get a exact value

I'm still firm in believing that by our current standards as of now the statement isn't enough to qualify for LS reaction

I'd ask Damage when you get the change

I'll get to looking into this as well

 

[KingTempest]

If he has shown the ability to react to light from a distance less than one meter then he should qualify for LS reaction regardless of what the calc ends up being

He has

This is why we are allowed to use subsonic+ reaction speeds in calcs for characters who consistently react to bullets from close range

No mf we aren't allowed to do that

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

No mf we aren't allowed to do that

It's been accepted for multiple other verses

It's the same as using Subsonic reaction for people who can reliably blitz humans

If that's not allowed then I'm afraid we have a few downgrades we need to make

Third, my b on the rules. Should be fine for y'all to comment then, I just wanted to be sure. I 100% know the timing of this came off as me having less-than-honorable motives but I promise that wasn't my intention

It's fine

 

[CloverDragon03]

Alright, here's what I got for this moment in particular. It's a rough calc, but it gives us a general idea at least:

Image here

Luffy's Head Height = 13% of Luffy's Height = 1.74 * 0.13 = 0.2262 meters = 106 px

0.2262 / 106 = 0.002154285714 meters per px

Distance from Laser to Luffy = 368.11 px = 0.778 meters

Luffy reacted to the laser from less than a meter away

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Alright, here's what I got for this moment in particular. It's a rough calc, but it gives us a general idea at least:

Image here

Luffy's Head Height = 13% of Luffy's Height = 1.74 * 0.13 = 0.2262 meters = 106 px

0.2262 / 106 = 0.002154285714 meters per px

Distance from Laser to Luffy = 368.11 px = 0.778 meters

Luffy reacted to the laser from less than a meter away

Alright then

Lets see what Damage has to say

 

[LordGinSama]

I know this is a calculation group thread but I'll drop this off here. Use it or not, that's not up to me as I'm simply providing some information. (I'll unfollow the thread after this comment.)



Proficient Kenbunshoku Haki users are stated to be capable of reacting to the speed of light.

 

[EndlessPheonix750]

Alright, here's what I got for this moment in particular. It's a rough calc, but it gives us a general idea at least:

Image here

Luffy's Head Height = 13% of Luffy's Height = 1.74 * 0.13 = 0.2262 meters = 106 px

0.2262 / 106 = 0.002154285714 meters per px

Distance from Laser to Luffy = 368.11 px = 0.778 meters

Luffy reacted to the laser from less than a meter away

Bro, isn't it still stacking? The feats he says SOL slow with the feats he says thunder is faster are two events in a rather distant time, and isn't it possible for his perception to increase to FTL? As stated in the stacking page, using unclear time frames and compressing the results to SOL to make it look Low Ball is stacking

 

[Damage3245]

Nah, he wasn't using Kenbun when he dodged the beam.
People just use that as cope for him being able to time light before One Piece was accepted as ftl. The only haki noted there is armament after he smacks the pacifista.

So natural perception Luffy considers light too slow, whereas FS Luffy considers Kaido too fast

There is no reason to think that Luffy wasn't using Haki to dodge it.

 

[Damage3245]

Alright then

Lets see what Damage has to say

Well, what I have to say about the anime version is that it is too different to what happened in the manga to be used.

 

[Fikriskps]

 

[KingTempest]

There is no reason to think that Luffy wasn't using Haki to dodge it.

You know there's kinda no reason to think that he was using Haki to dodge it too right?

 

[Damage3245]

You know there's kinda no reason to think that he was using Haki to dodge it too right?

Sure. I was just arguing against the assumption that this had to be nothing but Luffy without Haki.

I think it's likely that Luffy was using Haki personally, but I'm not going to say it is objective fact.