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On some more Honkai chainscaling + NEP3 removal

TheGreatJedi13 said:
I would agree with Welt having a conditional ED but not scaling to anything else, which doesn't need to be a new key with that. (This sounds like one of those 1/2 of a multiverse beerus argument, which kinda sounds funny, but instead Welt is clearly inferior, but still contributed to the rupturing)

the rest looks fine to me
Click to expand...
i mean both would be ED then, i even remember seeing that zephyro ruptures cosmos after devouring welts black
hole which is more of an chain reaction feat, but theres that guy wet dreaming zephyro sliming IX
 
Regarding the black hole and white hole thing. From what I know, the only effect of the two clashing is that the black hole absorbs the white hole, becoming an even more massive black hole.

Yet we see Zephy's white hole overpowering Welt's black hole, meaning Welt wasn't able to absorb it. This honestly bunks the idea that Zephy and Welt were only able to do that feat through a chain reaction.
 
Honestly, you can just say it's an outlier for Welt and be done with it. Or you could say he just downscales from the feat (meaning he gets an 'At Most" rating)
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
I would agree with Welt having a conditional ED but not scaling to anything else, which doesn't need to be a new key with that. (This sounds like one of those 1/2 of a multiverse beerus argument, which kinda sounds funny, but instead Welt is clearly inferior, but still contributed to the rupturing)

the rest looks fine to me
Click to expand...
Is there any reason UES doesn’t affect ED?
 
SuperNova55555 said:
Is there any reason UES doesn’t affect ED?
Click to expand...
I’m not sure how this is an ED feat at all ngl. ED is usually when there’s zero reason for a feat to scale to an AP of an attack.

For example, Made In Heaven has Universal + Environmental Damage because it's as special ability not tied to a power source nor powered by an energy system to allow it to be AP.

Honkai/Imaginary Energy is UES it automatically becomes AP applicable. Divine keys are powered by Welt's own Honkai Energy. Both of their attacks are dependent on their user’s own energy output. It is AP applicable.

(Btw it doesn’t matter if it’s UES or not. Even under NPES this would still be AP applicable due to Honkai/Imaginary energy powering the attacks in the first place)
 
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With that said, it reminded me of something I forgot to say, but what’s the reason for Welt not scaling to SoE?

Sure, it lets him apply IE differently, but it’s still explicitly Welt’s own IE. So he’d still possess a High 1-C equivalent amount of IE, even without SoE, which as far as I’m aware, is enough to scale him there.

(That would also mean every Emanator is High 1-C too yea)
 
SuperNova55555 said:
With that said, it reminded me of something I forgot to say, but what’s the reason for Welt not scaling to SoE?

Sure, it lets him apply IE differently, but it’s still explicitly Welt’s own IE. So he’d still possess a High 1-C equivalent amount of IE, even without SoE, which as far as I’m aware, is enough to scale him there.

(That would also mean every Emanator is High 1-C too yea)
Click to expand...
I remember someone talking about how zeroth power raises his output far beyond his normal capabilities or something. I’m not sure
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
I remember someone talking about how zeroth power raises his output far beyond his normal capabilities or something. I’m not sure
Click to expand...
It’s js a form of application, but it’s explicitly just his energy.
IMG-7878.jpg
 
SuperNova55555 said:
With that said, it reminded me of something I forgot to say, but what’s the reason for Welt not scaling to SoE?

Sure, it lets him apply IE differently, but it’s still explicitly Welt’s own IE. So he’d still possess a High 1-C equivalent amount of IE, even without SoE, which as far as I’m aware, is enough to scale him there.

(That would also mean every Emanator is High 1-C too yea)
Click to expand...
Iirc it’s cause divine keys allow one to output more energy than their normal attacks like how Su thought he’d be able to damage Kevin with The Twins of Eden and Abyss flower despite obviously being far below him.

Also Zeroth is a special move of SoE so it’s kinda weird to scale that to casual star of Eden blasts or not anything that’s not one of the other Star of Eden powers (1st and third power). Also welt can be killed by his own Zeroth Power (Second eruption, somewhere between chapters 27-29)

But sheesh yeah if we really do use SoE to scale to Welt’s basic stats ig most of our 3-C characters become 2-A possibly High 1-C💀
 
SuperNova55555 said:
Is there any reason UES doesn’t affect ED?
Click to expand...
Not sure what you meant
But if it's through Honkai3rd stuff and there are UES there.
then im not sure. Since I don't have the full context there, nor do I know much of it

But we know this is his last Gambit in that situation, so if it literally took all of his energy all at once, with no chance of being able to do anything more after it. Then, even if there is UES, we can't reasonably assume he would always use that much amount of energy for every single attack he does. making it uniquely special and different, rather than being his base statistics and abilities. Does that power come from the Star of Eden or from him, though?
Cause if it's something he is able to do with Star of Eden only, then there is good reason to be suspect on whether this UEs would even apply to his own base statistics
 
SuperNova55555 said:
With that said, it reminded me of something I forgot to say, but what’s the reason for Welt not scaling to SoE?

Sure, it lets him apply IE differently, but it’s still explicitly Welt’s own IE. So he’d still possess a High 1-C equivalent amount of IE, even without SoE, which as far as I’m aware, is enough to scale him there.

(That would also mean every Emanator is High 1-C too yea)
Click to expand...

Because there's still a Herrscher Core of Stars powering the damn thing and giving it the authority to make black holes.

No, Previous Era Divine Keys aren't effected by Kiana's embrace and removal of authority; they do cover this in story. It's just his energy enables him to use the divine key. The PE cores are dead and non-adaptable and thus it means they keep their authority... for plot reasons.

So it's more like Welt + SoE = SoE's output, but Welt obviously doesn't scale yet the SoE does as it's actually using Welt's energy and magnifying / adding it with its own.
 
PlungingThroughTime said:
Because there's still a Herrscher Core of Stars powering the damn thing and giving it the authority to make black holes.

No, Previous Era Divine Keys aren't effected by Kiana's embrace and removal of authority; they do cover this in story. It's just his energy enables him to use the divine key. The PE cores are dead and non-adaptable and thus it means they keep their authority... for plot reasons.

So it's more like Welt + SoE = SoE's output, but Welt obviously doesn't scale yet the SoE does as it's actually using Welt's energy and magnifying / adding it with its own.
Click to expand...
Das fine then
 
PlungingThroughTime said:
Because there's still a Herrscher Core of Stars powering the damn thing and giving it the authority to make black holes.

No, Previous Era Divine Keys aren't effected by Kiana's embrace and removal of authority; they do cover this in story. It's just his energy enables him to use the divine key. The PE cores are dead and non-adaptable and thus it means they keep their authority... for plot reasons.

So it's more like Welt + SoE = SoE's output, but Welt obviously doesn't scale yet the SoE does as it's actually using Welt's energy and magnifying / adding it with its own.
Click to expand...
Well since I remembered, but what's the percentage that Welt shares here? Like whats he contributing? Because unless its nearly 0%, hed still be 2-A
 
Gonna quote myself:
I just think this is incorrect. IMO he maxed at 3-c with SoE and the 2-A part comes from the explosion aka a conditional feat that he nor zephyro doesnt scale to

Which is why first of all soe should vary because its current rating would be assuming every user has high 1-C output and dont even get me started on how nonsensical that is and secondly the cosmo nuke should just be a conditional key/effect for SoE and it’s users
 
SuperNova55555 said:
Ye but like how does UES not mess this up
Click to expand...
Its just a chain reaction from the singularities colliding it shouldnt affect UES cause its technically not their output just a reaction from the opposing singularities
 
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Mbpoops said:
Gonna quote myself:
I just think this is incorrect. IMO he maxed at 3-c with SoE and the 2-A part comes from the explosion aka a conditional feat that he nor zephyro doesnt scale to

Which is why first of all soe should vary because its current rating would be assuming every user has high 1-C output and dont even get me started on how nonsensical that is and secondly the cosmo nuke should just be a conditional key/effect for SoE and it’s users
Click to expand...
11-D Singularity
 
SuperNova55555 said:
Well since I remembered, but what's the percentage that Welt shares here? Like whats he contributing? Because unless its nearly 0%, hed still be 2-A
Click to expand...
We actually have no clue and nothing like that is ever stated so you can just assume from his normal energy output without SoE. Without it he made a 10,000G black hole, a massive army of warships, battleships, etc.
Schro's statement is IIRC Herrschers have enough energy to power an Ether Anchor to build a microcosm within the SoQ but they can control much greater amounts of energy, this should be taken with a massssive grain of salt though, it's schro.
 
Is there any particular reason IX still has Aspect 2? Wasn't conceptual stuff nuked?
 
Natsuki012 said:
while i do agree that Zephyro is stronger than welt, i don't know how you got that he was completely nodiffed from a vague 10 second clip that we have barely context on how the fight plays out. Besides, the "devour each other" does imply that a big fight happened, but once again we have little context
Click to expand...
I am fine with Welt downscaling from Zephyro due to this.

Any summary on 2 and 3 since there is 3 pages of bickering?
 
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