Omnipresence and Speed Equalized

[FateAlbane]

Okay, so this is a certain thing that has been bugging me.

From the day I joined this site, every character Nigh-Omnipresent or Omnipresent is assumed to be on the same level as anyone they fight when speed is equalized, making said Omnipresence/Speed on even grounds so it doesn't become a blitz for the one side or another via being, you know everywhere already.

That's what everyone always told me as well when I asked.

That's also what we have in both the Speed Page and Omnipresence is listed on the speed stats to this day.

Now what I want to understand here is: Are people bringing up this whole "BB's Omnipresence still works" in the right and all the other matches I've seen so far actually wrong?

Because I'd like to point out that characters such as Arceus, YHVH and even higher dimensional omnipresents are affected by said equalization.

And I want to clarify this here once and for all so that this doesn't pop up in literally every single BB or any other Omnipresent/Nigh Omnipresent thread in existence, so we end this.

Now the question: Omnipresence is Equalized via Speed Equalized.

Right or wrong?

Again, this is the part that matters. NO ONE WILL GAIN OR LOSE POWERS HERE.

Once this ends up resolved I suggest we add a note to the Omnipresence page listing whether it's one or the other, in order to end this problem.

 

[FateAlbane]

Because once this ends up resolved I suggest we add a note to the Omnipresence page listing whether it's one or the other, in order to end this problem.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Isn't BB's "Omnipresence" closer to just having her consciousness present across all of time? Doesn't sound like "speed" to me.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Saik People say that said conscience can attack or do anything the present BB does at the same time as the present one is fighting across every point in time to the opponent so sounds pretty Omnipresent to me.

 

[Schnee_One]

This is what I find funny.

Speed Equalized, despite being stated by the guy who made the rule, Equalizes attack speed, doesn't Equalize the spear.

Also Saikou's right

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Agree with Saik

My thoughts on the matter though are speed equalised means "it isn't a blitz"

That's it. One character cannot blitz the other.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Saik People say that said conscience can attack or do anything the present BB does at the same time as the present one is fighting across every point in time to the opponent so sounds pretty Omnipresent to me.

/\ @Gar

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Not all cases of omnipresence are directly speed related.

You can be everywhere but still have subsonic attack speed, some forms pf omnipresence aren't even physical, like in BB's case.

 

[FateAlbane]

I'm not asking "physical omnipresence" or some type. I'm asking about the power in general since the end result is the same as the opponent is everywhere. Using the example above, YHVH is as much as a concept of everything and omnipresent. Still gets equalized.

 

[Schnee_One]

It's a state of existence in anything below 4D

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Saik People say that said conscience can attack or do anything the present BB does at the same time as the present one is fighting across every point in time to the opponent so sounds pretty Omnipresent to me.

They are wrong. The consciousness itself cannot do anything.

Her past and future selves are capable of fighting.

 

[FateAlbane]

Hell, I don't even care what we get out of this. What I want is closure on this matter that has gone on long enough.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Personally i think Omnipresence should be an ability opposed to speed unless shown to be the case.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

This is what I find funy.
Speed Equalized, despite being stated by the guy who made the rule, Equalizes attack speed, doesn't Equalize the spear.

The spear bypasses distance. Which isn't really infinite attack speed per se, seeing as it can still only be used as fast as Reinhard is.

 

[Schnee_One]

So it's more teleportation.

That's fair

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Saik People say that said conscience can attack or do anything the present BB does at the same time as the present one is fighting across every point in time to the opponent so sounds pretty Omnipresent to me.

They are wrong. The consciousness itself cannot do anything.
Her past and future selves are capable of fighting.

 

[FateAlbane]

They are wrong. The consciousness itself cannot do anything.

Her past and future selves are capable of fighting.

That settles as omnipresence (well, actually nigh) since she's throughout all of time and space and Nigh-Omnipresence is listed on her profile already, tho.

Though yet again, while BB is the one who sparked this, I'm asking about the power in general. Does Omnipresence get affected by speed equalized? Yes, or no?

All characters with it will lean to the final decision as the end result of the power is fundamentally the same.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Just wanna use this as an example, take Giygas or Zamasu, both are omnipresent but neither have infinite attack speed or anything of the sort.

While BB is like a temporal hive mind.


All have omnipresence, completely different functions.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Basically does speed equal effect omnipresence? Your answer is maybe, it depends.

 

[FateAlbane]

@TheK-ManRequiem No. Stop giving types to Omnipresence, the end result is the same thing.

You literally told me in the other thread "she's already there and she can hax him simultaneously across space and time". That's textbook definition of Omnipresence.

Same as Arceus being everywhere, Lucemon, YHVH, Madoka-Kaname who exists as kind of a concept etc, etc.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Its not that her consciousness can do anything

Her consciounsess expands over all of space time, but that's it.

Her past, present and future selves, are physical bodies that are not omnipresent and only exist in one location at each point in space-time.

But her memories of past, present and future are all connected, so each self has all the memories and knowledge of her past and future selves as well, and can and will use that knowledge to fight threats. The higher dimensional persepctive and the fact that they can time travel and rearrange the timeline only makes that knowledge easier to make use of

 

[FateAlbane]

Anyways, since this is in regards to a rather important power to the wiki, within the "Omni Trinity" per se, I'll be waiting for more staff input on this as well.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

>stop giving types to something that has types

That's wrong man.

Let me reiterate then, her past self already knows what to do. Also I didn't use the word simultaneously or space and time, if ya wanna quote me actually do so and not rephrase my statement.

 

[FateAlbane]

>stop giving types to something that has types
That's wrong man.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Omnipresence

Not seeing any types there.

Also let me pull this directly from BB's profile:

Nigh-Omnipresent throughout space-time (Exists in past, present, and future simultaneously and can view and appear across space-time as if it were a book, absorbed the data of Tiamat, who also exists across space-time),

/\ So your point about being different is...?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Fate, in this case there is a "type" to her omnipresence. It's purely her consciousness. Her "omnipresent self" cannot actually do anything. Only her real bodies in space-time can do things. She isn't like Madoka who is everywhere and everywhen and can appear and attack everywhere and everywhen

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

:
Nigh-Omnipresent throughout space-time (Exists in past, present, and future simultaneously and can view and appear across space-time as if it were a book, absorbed the data of Tiamat, who also exists across space-time),

/\ So your point about being different is...?

It is purely her consciousness, just like Tiamat. She has a physical body, which is where she uses all her powers from, but her mind is everywhere.

 

[FateAlbane]

You all do realize that still works like Omnipresence, right? And that's the reason why she has Nigh-Omnipresent listed in her profile instead of some other power.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Her consciouness, which is the only part of her that is nigh-omnipresent, cannot do anything, ergo it cannot blitz, ergo equalizing its speed does nothing

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Because it is omnipresence, just not the usual space time everywhere all at once kind and it's not even applicable to speed in the slightest

 

[FateAlbane]

Her consciouness, which is the only part of her that is nigh-omnipresent, cannot do anything, ergo it cannot blitz, ergo equalizing its speed does nothing

If that were the case it would be one thing. Except that, your own argument of how this works was the following:

"All of BB's infinite past, present, and future selves simultaneously rearange the timeline to time paradox Rimuru from the timeline, while also writing game laws into the fabric of reality saying "Rimuru cannot exist", "Rimuru cannot return", etc etc

She doesn't even have to "go back" in time, because she's A) already there and B) can just rearrange the timeline from wherever she is

Sure Rimuru would be doing something immediately too, but... he can only affect the BB of the present, while all the BBs of the past and future are attacking him too."

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Because I'm talking about her past and future selves, not her consciousness.

When I say "she's already there", I'm not talking about her consciousness being omnipresent, I'm talking about her past selves being in the past because they are her past selves, and these past selves, with all the knowledge of their future selves, with restructure the timeline themselves

 

[FateAlbane]

So yes, Omnipresent sounding.

Will be waiting for more community input in regards to this.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

How does past, present and future selves all sharing the same knowledge and memories sound like omnipresence?

IIRC Sailor Moon can relay information to her past selves, that in no way makes her omnipresent. BB's just doing a more efficient version of it.

In case you missed it after I edited it in:

When I say "she's already there", I'm not talking about her consciousness being omnipresent, I'm talking about her past selves being in the past because they are her past selves, and these past selves, with all the knowledge of their future selves, with restructure the timeline themselves

 

[FateAlbane]

As she's using all of herself across space-and time, that's omnipresence. There's a literal infinity of BBs, as per the argument above. One thing is sharing information (like Byakuran who does that via communication with Parallel World Selves), another is literally using yourself across all of time to fight at once - hence, Omnipresent.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

She doesn't exist as some kind of concept across the universe. It's a hive mind style, like J-Man already said.

You "exist" in a single moment, present. Even though there is "you" in the past and future, you cannot interact with them and you cannot use them. BB is connected to every "BB" in past and future and "the main BB" is in command of them. She can interact with them and use them in every way. "The main BB", which you face in versus match, can kill you in the past because she is connected to "BB in the past" who kills you.

You can think of it as being in a match against infinite BBs scattered across space-time.

Am I making it sound complicated or?

 

[FateAlbane]

@Swag Well, the main question of the thread is whether Omnipresence/Nigh-Omnipresence gets equalized as speed or not. That would affect all omnipresents or nigh-omnipresents in the wiki, of course. BB is just the one who made me bring this up.

As for her having the power, It's a-ok with me.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Simplification to the max, D4C but instead of universes it's time.

 

[FateAlbane]

And no worries, you explained well.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

BB's Omnipresence is irrelevant in Speed Equalized matches. And if it is purely a consciousness thing it shouldn't even be listed as Speed.

 

[Reppuzan]

We're gonna need a lot of input on this one.

I honestly don't know how to approach this.