OG Dragon Ball Rivals vs OG Sonic Rivals

[ShockingShoes]

i'm adding that win by BFR is also allowed

 

[ShockingShoes]

I feel like Sonic's ressutection might needs to be checked, maybe it's not infinite.

Sonic's ressurection is not infinite, he needs to use Soul Points or something like that

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Only Sonic can revive here, since this is an ability in this key that's tied with the Soul Gauge.


Knuckles can close the AP gap by using Passive stats amp and the Maximum Heat Attack in turn, which is the same as the LSA.

Knuckles can amp but so can Goku and to a ludicrous degree too because of his saiyan genes, so they'll most likely incap or kill knuckles before he becomes a threat.

Goku and Piccolo can knock out or knock off the island

I see well can't Goku or piccolo just do something like this?

or a dragon throw or something and send sonic's corpse half way across the planet like he did 17?

 

[ShockingShoes]

Knuckles can amp but so can Goku and to a ludicrous degree too because of his saiyan genes, so they'll most likely incap or kill knuckles before he becomes a threat.

I see well can't Goku or piccolo just do something like this?

or a dragon throw or something and send sonic's corpse half way across the planet like he did 17?

Sonic has appropriate speed amps, as well as several other abilities. Since I can't restrict Standard Equipment, he also can use the Chaos Emeralds, and if he'll revive if he's dead and his corpse is getting thrown across the world.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Sonic has appropriate speed amps, as well as several other abilities. Since I can't restrict Standard Equipment, he also can use the Chaos Emeralds, and if he'll revive if he's dead and his corpse is getting thrown across the world.

What is his speed amp 2x or more? I'm assuming it's similar to his doubled attack power but this is not really a big of an amp and both can still keep up. That could easily be over come by Goku's reactive power level which makes him grow stronger a ludicrous amount very quickly. Also Goku can just send him flying and ring him out while before he revives, or he can incapacitate then throw him out, I'm basically disregarding knuckles as he's fodder here lol, gets one shot by piccolo.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I feel like Sonic's ressutection might needs to be checked, maybe it's not infinite.

Sonic can refill his Soul Gauge by running

 

[ShakeResounding]

What is his speed amp 2x or more? I'm assuming it's similar to his doubled attack power but this is not really a big of an amp and both can still keep up.

Sonic can nigh-instantly use the Spuer Peel Out technique, which multiplies his speed by a factor of 4x. The Boost does the same thing

That could easily be over come by Goku's reactive power level which makes him grow stronger a ludicrous amount very quickly.

You're overplaying Goku's Reactive Evolution. His RE isn't on the same level as somebody like Broly's, he's not just gonna "lol adapt" like how Broly does. In fact, any meaningful occurrences of that usually only happens after a battle or through a recovery period (as short or as long as they tend to be)

Also Goku can just send him flying and ring him out while before he revives, or he can incapacitate then throw him out

An incapacitation is gonna rely on meaningful damage being done to Sonic, which isn't likely to happen due to Sonic's often absurd levels of mobility, agility, and speed amplification. And Sonic is no stranger to fighting people who can fly freely, snap-vanish, and teleport. Not to mention, on top of all of that, Sonic's quills can sense danger. Any attacks he can't immediately see or sneak attacks in general are rendered null.

I'm basically disregarding knuckles as he's fodder here lol, gets one shot by piccolo.

Not a chance, their level of upscaling is too massive. Sonic's grown in strength to the point of growing stronger than Infinite, who stomped Sonic in the beginning of Forces. Knuckles is considered a physical rival to Sonic. Even being conservative and labelling it as a 2x difference between Pre-Forces Sonic and Post-Forces Sonic (it's likely more since Sonic was casually KO'd in like 4 hits), that'd place them around a casual 64 Tenatons. And that's a conservative measure.

Also, Sonic losing due to a ring-out by being launched through force isn't really gonna work. He's shown several means of mid-air shifts in momentum, so he won't be going far. Same for Knuckles, as the guy can freely glide in the air.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Sonic can nigh-instantly use the Spuer Peel Out technique, which multiplies his speed by a factor of 4x. The Boost does the same thing

So he gets 8x faster? Doesn't he just stomp then via blitz? Since even a 3x or 5x gap can be a blitz. Also he's slower than Goku and piccolo by many times, so a win like that is invalid.

You're overplaying Goku's Reactive Evolution. His RE isn't on the same level as somebody like Broly's, he's not just gonna "lol adapt" like how Broly does. In fact, any meaningful occurrences of that usually only happens after a battle or through a recovery period (as short or as long as they tend to be)

Actually scaling to Guys like caulifula who can improve to the point that she goes from sturggling against base Goku to keeping up with him in SSJ2 through reactive evolution alone, which is pretty broken. There also other examples of Goku doing this in the top through his saiyan genes so it scales to namek Goku too.

An incapacitation is gonna rely on meaningful damage being done to Sonic, which isn't likely to happen due to Sonic's often absurd levels of mobility, agility, and speed amplification. And Sonic is no stranger to fighting people who can fly freely, snap-vanish, and teleport. Not to mention, on top of all of that, Sonic's quills can sense danger. Any attacks he can't immediately see or sneak attacks in general are rendered null.

Well that's pretty impressive, but if he's 8x faster then it's just no fair for Goku and piccolo. If he isn't 8x then they would still incapacitate despite all this and knock them out.

Not a chance, their level of upscaling is too massive. Sonic's grown in strength to the point of growing stronger than Infinite, who stomped Sonic in the beginning of Forces. Knuckles is considered a physical rival to Sonic. Even being conservative and labelling it as a 2x difference between Pre-Forces Sonic and Post-Forces Sonic (it's likely more since Sonic was casually KO'd in like 4 hits), that'd place them around a casual 64 Tenatons. And that's a conservative measure.

Also, Sonic losing due to a ring-out by being launched through force isn't really gonna work. He's shown several means of mid-air shifts in momentum, so he won't be going far. Same for Knuckles, as the guy can freely glide in the air.

No upscaling like that is unquantifiable and doesn't give you a number, that 2x stuff is baseless, you need actual multipliers or numbers not just "this guy stomped this guy therefore 2x" so the gap is still in one shot range.
He needs to be able to stop the force of being lauched in the air, which is not gonna happen looking at the AP gap, or he can just get killed and then his corpse is launched out while he still hasn't revived. same deal with knuckles. If they could just stop their momentum then nobody would get knocked around in DB since they all can shift momentum and fly and stuff.

 

[ShakeResounding]

So he gets 8x faster? Doesn't he just stomp then via blitz? Since even a 3x or 5x gap can be a blitz. Also he's slower than Goku and piccolo by many times, so a win like that is invalid.

No, a win like that IS valid. It just can't be added to the profiles if that's the SOLE reason they win.

Actually scaling to Guys like caulifula who can improve to the point that she goes from sturggling against base Goku to keeping up with him in SSJ2 through reactive evolution alone, which is pretty broken. There also other examples of Goku doing this in the top through his saiyan genes so it scales to namek Goku too.

I already know about DBS, I've watched the entirety of it. But there's a difference of "it should scale" and "it should scale but he's never really shown it". So no, nothing meaningful comes from it in this match because Goku's zenkais and Reactive Evolution has never been shown to work as patently as theirs mid-combat. Do you know how many battles in Dragon Ball would have been much different if Goku's RE was as potent as you claimed?

Well that's pretty impressive, but if he's 8x faster then it's just no fair for Goku and piccolo. If he isn't 8x then they would still incapacitate despite all this and knock them out.

That's just you saying "no, they WILL incapacitate and knock them out" without really giving much reason to it. If anything, Knuckles is far more likely to incapacitate than Goku or Piccolo because his uppercuts negate durability. Not to mention both Sonic and Knuckles can restore their vitality through healing.

No upscaling like that is unquantifiable and doesn't give you a number, that 2x stuff is baseless, you need actual multipliers or numbers not just "this guy stomped this guy therefore 2x" so the gap is still in one shot range.

Not how it works. Regardless of whether it's a 2x difference or as little as a 1.2x difference, truth is that it's already enough to negate a one-shot due to both Sonic and Knuckles having skills that passively increase their durability. So even if we scale them DIRECTLY to 32 Tenatons in AP, their Durability is higher than that anyways. So nice effort, but it doesn't matter whether we go my route OR yours.

He needs to be able to stop the force of being lauched in the air, which is not gonna happen looking at the AP gap

I literally explained why he CAN stop the force of being launched. Sonic is the same guy who can instantly stop his forward momentum, change things like his torque and aerial positioning on a whim, and has an aerial boost that's literally designed to thrust himself forward (and his stomp technique is shown to negate that as well, so being launched forward won't do anything either). A ring out by being flung through force isn't going to happen with the several methods Sonic (and Knuckles has by extension) of canceling it.

he can just get killed and then his corpse is launched out while he still hasn't revived same deal with knuckles.

That would rely on them dying, which isn't happening here. I'm not even sure why Resurrection was brought up, since this battle is gonna come to a close before that's even needed. And worst case scenario, Goku isn't gonna run under the assumption that Sonic and Knuckles can resurrect. He's not going to take the preemptive measure of flinging a corpse out of bounds when he's logically gonna assume neither can come back. Goku and Piccolo have only ever seen resurrection (by this point) through the Dragon Balls.

if they could just stop their momentum then nobody would get knocked around in DB since they all can shift momentum and fly and stuff.

That follows the line of reasoning that Sonic and Knuckles can't do it simply because Goku and co. don't do it. I don't think I have to explain why that argument is wrong.

Goku and Piccolo don't have an answer to Sonic and Knuckles' much wider versatility and arsenal. Not to mention Sonic's danger sense is gonna make any unexpected attacks null. Worst case scenario and Knuckles is dispatched of easily, Sonic uses Chaos Control and that's a fat GG for them anyways.

 

[ShockingShoes]

By the way, you shouldn't use Caulfia and/or any DBS characters to justify DBZ Lore, just like it is for GT's universal feat not scaling to 110x universe level because of DBS's cosmology.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

No, a win like that IS valid. It just can't be added to the profiles if that's the SOLE reason they win.

Yes that's what I mean by invalid.

I already know about DBS, I've watched the entirety of it. But there's a difference of "it should scale" and "it should scale but he's never really shown it". So no, nothing meaningful comes from it in this match because Goku's zenkais and Reactive Evolution has never been shown to work as patently as theirs mid-combat. Do you know how many battles in Dragon Ball would have been much different if Goku's RE was as potent as you claimed?

it shouldn't be disregarded as a saiyan can impove faster the more pressure they're under. Goku's reactive evolution during the TOP was potent like this and due only to his saiyan genes so it would scale to this fight here despite being his z counter part.

That's just you saying "no, they WILL incapacitate and knock them out" without really giving much reason to it. If anything, Knuckles is far more likely to incapacitate than Goku or Piccolo because his uppercuts negate durability. Not to mention both Sonic and Knuckles can restore their vitality through healing.

AP advantage makes all their moves super effective, one solid hit and they get knocked out and incapacitated. Also how skilled are sonic and knuckles in h2h? goku and piccolo are martial arts gods so if they can't compete they just get skill stomped. How does knuckles negate durability? How does healing work? Piccolo also has regen, but I think healing won't be very useful if they get incapacitated before they use it and or they get too damaged that it won't be useful, so that's why I'm asking. (This is all assuming that Goku and piccolo don't get 8x blitzed)

Not how it works. Regardless of whether it's a 2x difference or as little as a 1.2x difference, truth is that it's already enough to negate a one-shot due to both Sonic and Knuckles having skills that passively increase their durability. So even if we scale them DIRECTLY to 32 Tenatons in AP, their Durability is higher than that anyways. So nice effort, but it doesn't matter whether we go my route OR yours.

Isn't passively increasing durability non quantifiable too? I really don't want to use this argument because I feel it's unfair for sonic and knuckles because I agree that them scaling so high above their value, they should be stronger, but without solid numbers the AP gap will stay the same, because these gaps are unquantifiable.

I literally explained why he CAN stop the force of being launched. Sonic is the same guy who can instantly stop his forward momentum, change things like his torque and aerial positioning on a whim, and has an aerial boost that's literally designed to thrust himself forward (and his stomp technique is shown to negate that as well, so being launched forward won't do anything either). A ring out by being flung through force isn't going to happen with the several methods Sonic (and Knuckles has by extension) of canceling it.

Well you have to prove that sonic can stop himself getting launched at a much higher speed that he normally can after getting punched and incapacitated or one shot. If he dies while getting launched he will get rung out before he resurrects unless it's instant.

That would rely on them dying, which isn't happening here. I'm not even sure why Resurrection was brought up, since this battle is gonna come to a close before that's even needed. And worst case scenario, Goku isn't gonna run under the assumption that Sonic and Knuckles can resurrect. He's not going to take the preemptive measure of flinging a corpse out of bounds when he's logically gonna assume neither can come back. Goku and Piccolo have only ever seen resurrection (by this point) through the Dragon Balls.

I'm here assuming that Goku and piccolo don't get blitzed 8x over. Goku and piccolo will either knock them out and send them out of the ring while they're incapacitated or dead. They don't need to know they can ressurect, they just need to know they can ring out and they will just go for the in character move which doesn't involve death, one shot and incapacitate while knocking them off.

That follows the line of reasoning that Sonic and Knuckles can't do it simply because Goku and co. don't do it. I don't think I have to explain why that argument is wrong.

Goku and Piccolo don't have an answer to Sonic and Knuckles' much wider versatility and arsenal. Not to mention Sonic's danger sense is gonna make any unexpected attacks null. Worst case scenario and Knuckles is dispatched of easily, Sonic uses Chaos Control and that's a fat GG for them anyways.

Yes I was basing sonics maneuvers off of what you said initially which were all things goku and co. could already do.
AP covers that mostly, I'm pretty sure Goku has intent sensing and analytical prediction, though I don't remember if he has it by this time but he should have it iirc which would counter the danger sense. What is chaos control, is it time manipulation or something?

 

[ShockingShoes]

it shouldn't be disregarded as a saiyan can impove faster the more pressure they're under. Goku's reactive evolution during the TOP was potent like this and due only to his saiyan genes so it would scale to this fight here despite being his z counter part.

is invalidated by

By the way, you shouldn't use Caulfia and/or any DBS characters to justify DBZ Lore, just like it is for GT's universal feat not scaling to 110x universe level because of DBS's cosmology.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

is invalidated by

Oh yes I forgot to respond to this.

By the way, you shouldn't use Caulfia and/or any DBS characters to justify DBZ Lore, just like it is for GT's universal feat not scaling to 110x universe level because of DBS's cosmology.

This is wrong, dbs directly scales to dbz and is canon to it, gt is not canon to dbs so they don't scale to each other, this is a false equivalence.

 

[ShakeResounding]

it shouldn't be disregarded as a saiyan can impove faster the more pressure they're under. Goku's reactive evolution during the TOP was potent like this and due only to his saiyan genes so it would scale to this fight here despite being his z counter part.

I understand what you mean, but this is essentially a non-answer. Goku's Reactive Evolution simply isn't always that effective, or else many events would have unfolded differently. Best case scenario, you can claim it has moments of effectiveness and moments where it means very little. Which in turn makes it something reliable to count on within a vs match, because you can't predict how efficient his Reactive Evolution will be and thus isn't a viable win condition. And it isn't just Goku's RE, that's how we treat most things in versus matches when it's inconsistent.

AP advantage makes all their moves super effective, one solid hit and they get knocked out and incapacitated. Also how skilled are sonic and knuckles in h2h? goku and piccolo are martial arts gods so if they can't compete they just get skill stomped.

Sonic himself can fight against enemies that can steal his moves, stats, and techniques simply by observing them (Emerl), has fought against beings that had 4000 years of straight war and combat experience alongside the skills of the entire Sonic Battle cast (himself included, which was also done by Emerl), has triumphed over machines created by Dr. Eggman that were specifically made with the studies of his movements and techniques in mind (the Egg Dragoon and Metal Sonic), and can face primordial/time immemorial beings that are older than beings such as (just for a comparison you can probably understand) Beerus and Whis. And I guess Buu, since I think he's been around since the dawn of time iirc. And Knuckles can competently fight Sonic more often than not, so neither are lacking in the skill department. You don't have to summarize skill for Goku and Piccolo in case you feel like you need to, I ******* love DBZ so I've watched it in its entirety

How does knuckles negate durability? How does healing work? Piccolo also has regen, but I think healing won't be very useful if they get incapacitated before they use it and or they get too damaged that it won't be useful, so that's why I'm asking. (This is all assuming that Goku and piccolo don't get 8x blitzed)

Knuckles' Durability Negation happens through him literally just uppercutting, as weird as it sounds. Sonic's healing is just described as him healing rapidly, though he's stationary while doing it. Knuckles just uses the power of the Earth to heal himself, though he's also stationary while doing it. But both can burrow underground, so they wouldn't do it in plain sight if it were necessary.

Isn't passively increasing durability non quantifiable too? I really don't want to use this argument because I feel it's unfair for sonic and knuckles because I agree that them scaling so high above their value, they should be stronger, but without solid numbers the AP gap will stay the same, because these gaps are unquantifiable.

Ah, no worries. Their Durability augmentation is indeed unquantifiable, though me bringing it up was less of doing so to say they can go toe-to-toe with Goku and Piccolo and moreso me arguing that it Sonic and Knuckles can't be one-shot by them. Sonic and Knuckles are still for sure at a sizeable AP disadvantage, I agree with that.

Well you have to prove that sonic can stop himself getting launched at a much higher speed that he normally can after getting punched and incapacitated or one shot. If he dies while getting launched he will get rung out before he resurrects unless it's instant.

That's the thing. If Knuckles dies (since he's much more likely to die, if at all), Sonic's gonna immediately go for hax.

I'm here assuming that Goku and piccolo don't get blitzed 8x over. Goku and piccolo will either knock them out and send them out of the ring while they're incapacitated or dead. They don't need to know they can ressurect, they just need to know they can ring out and they will just go for the in character move which doesn't involve death, one shot and incapacitate while knocking them off.

Two issues. One is the fact that it relies on a quick and seamless knockout/incap for both, which is already very unlikely. The second, and much bigger, issue with that is Sonic is going to use the Wisps fairly quickly since they're part of his Standard Equipment. Turning into a black hole with Pre-Stellar Lifting Strength suction, turning into a planetoid that tears things apart on a molecular level through deconstruction, one that eats and absorbs things it comes into contact with to add it to its own mass, etc. And to be honest, I completely forgot to mention Wisps sooner because I forgot that Sonic had them in this key (my bad lol). He'll likely even open up with one, considering they're always eager to help Sonic when he has them.

Yes I was basing sonics maneuvers off of what you said initially which were all things goku and co. could already do.

AP covers that mostly, I'm pretty sure Goku has intent sensing and analytical prediction, though I don't remember if he has it by this time but he should have it iirc which would counter the danger sense. What is chaos control, is it time manipulation or something?
Sonic has Analytical Prediction on top of his Danger Sense. And Danger Sense in itself wasn't a large part of my argument, it was really just covering the basis of attacks that Sonic won't expect/can't see. Chaos Control allows for Resistance-Negating Time Stop, Time Slow and Acceleration, and Teleportation. Sonic actually spams the teleportation aspect of the technique whenever he's at risk of falling off of the Space Colony Ark, so he'd do the same at the risk of a ring-out here. But I was moreso referring to the Time Stop aspect, yeah.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Two issues. One is the fact that it relies on a quick and seamless knockout/incap for both, which is already very unlikely. The second, and much bigger, issue with that is Sonic is going to use the Wisps fairly quickly since they're part of his Standard Equipment. Turning into a black hole with Class Z Lifting Strength suction, turning into a planetoid that tears things apart on a molecular level through deconstruction, one that eats and absorbs things it comes into contact with to add it to its own mass, etc. And to be honest, I completely forgot to mention Wisps sooner because I forgot that Sonic had them in this key (my bad lol). He'll likely even open up with one, considering they're always eager to help Sonic when he has them.

Actually the Violet Void and other Wisps scales to Pre-Stellar LS while containing Tier 4 mass on their own, just saying.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Actually the Violet Void and other Wisps scales to Pre-Stellar LS while containing Tier 4 mass on their own, just saying.

Thank you, forgot that detail

 

[JED]

Grace over anyways so this can be added.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I understand what you mean, but this is essentially a non-answer. Goku's Reactive Evolution simply isn't always that effective, or else many events would have unfolded differently. Best case scenario, you can claim it has moments of effectiveness and moments where it means very little. Which in turn makes it something reliable to count on within a vs match, because you can't predict how efficient his Reactive Evolution will be and thus isn't a viable win condition. And it isn't just Goku's RE, that's how we treat most things in versus matches when it's inconsistent.

I see, well Goku's reactive evolution makes it so that basically the more he fights the stronger he gets, a good example is vegeta vs granolah, you can see that vegeta's reactive evolution is significant, there is also a higher potency example with caulifula which she got far stronger very fast and also Goku's TOP examples, so in regular vs matches, Goku should at least have the same level of RL as vegeta did vs granolah and higher if he was in say UI.

Sonic himself can fight against enemies that can steal his moves, stats, and techniques simply by observing them (Emerl), has fought against beings that had 4000 years of straight war and combat experience alongside the skills of the entire Sonic Battle cast (himself included, which was also done by Emerl), has triumphed over machines created by Dr. Eggman that were specifically made with the studies of his movements and techniques in mind (the Egg Dragoon and Metal Sonic), and can face primordial/time immemorial beings that are older than beings such as (just for a comparison you can probably understand) Beerus and Whis. And I guess Buu, since I think he's been around since the dawn of time iirc. And Knuckles can competently fight Sonic more often than not, so neither are lacking in the skill department. You don't have to summarize skill for Goku and Piccolo in case you feel like you need to, I ******* love DBZ so I've watched it in its entirety

Yeah that surpasses DBZ goku and piccolo's skill, DBS would be a match since super Goku steps into literal godly realms of skill but right now no.

Knuckles' Durability Negation happens through him literally just uppercutting, as weird as it sounds. Sonic's healing is just described as him healing rapidly, though he's stationary while doing it. Knuckles just uses the power of the Earth to heal himself, though he's also stationary while doing it. But both can burrow underground, so they wouldn't do it in plain sight if it were necessary.

whaaat? I had to check the profile to understand this lol. Anyway healing is pretty bad since it makes them stationary which won't work against Goku and piccolo.

Two issues. One is the fact that it relies on a quick and seamless knockout/incap for both, which is already very unlikely. The second, and much bigger, issue with that is Sonic is going to use the Wisps fairly quickly since they're part of his Standard Equipment. Turning into a black hole with Pre-Stellar Lifting Strength suction, turning into a planetoid that tears things apart on a molecular level through deconstruction, one that eats and absorbs things it comes into contact with to add it to its own mass, etc. And to be honest, I completely forgot to mention Wisps sooner because I forgot that Sonic had them in this key (my bad lol). He'll likely even open up with one, considering they're always eager to help Sonic when he has them.

what...?

Sonic has Analytical Prediction on top of his Danger Sense. And Danger Sense in itself wasn't a large part of my argument, it was really just covering the basis of attacks that Sonic won't expect/can't see. Chaos Control allows for Resistance-Negating Time Stop, Time Slow and Acceleration, and Teleportation. Sonic actually spams the teleportation aspect of the technique whenever he's at risk of falling off of the Space Colony Ark, so he'd do the same at the risk of a ring-out here. But I was moreso referring to the Time Stop aspect, yeah.

oh noooo, time stop. Bruh Goku and piccolo are getting stomped, you should've mentioned the wisps and 8x speed gap earlier, TIME STOP?! Yeah I don't think this can be added to the profiles man...

 

[ShakeResounding]

I see, well Goku's reactive evolution makes it so that basically the more he fights the stronger he gets, a good example is vegeta vs granolah, you can see that vegeta's reactive evolution is significant, there is also a higher potency example with caulifula which she got far stronger very fast and also Goku's TOP examples, so in regular vs matches, Goku should at least have the same level of RL as vegeta did vs granolah and higher if he was in say UI.

I'll say that this is at least fair. The bigger part is that I don't think the battle is gonna last long enough for Goku's Reactive Evolution TO matter, if you get what I mean. It'd moreso be a much larger help if Sonic and Knuckles were on an even level in terms of AP, because then you'd definitely have an argument to be made there. Though if this were DBS then yes, I'd 100% agree that Goku's Reactive Evolution would be far more reliable to use.

whaaat? I had to check the profile to understand this lol. Anyway healing is pretty bad since it makes them stationary which won't work against Goku and piccolo.

For sure, I agree that healing is essentially a non-factor here. Sonic and Knuckles would likely rely on other things if their backs were against the wall.

what...?

Yeahhhh, my fault for not remembering sooner lol.

oh noooo, time stop. Bruh Goku and piccolo are getting stomped, you should've mentioned the wisps and 8x speed gap earlier, TIME STOP?! Yeah I don't think this can be added to the profiles man...

No opinion on this part. I'm not sure if it's fair enough to be added or unfair enough to be considered a stomp match. I'll let others decide here.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I'll say that this is at least fair. The bigger part is that I don't think the battle is gonna last long enough for Goku's Reactive Evolution TO matter, if you get what I mean. It'd moreso be a much larger help if Sonic and Knuckles were on an even level in terms of AP, because then you'd definitely have an argument to be made there. Though if this were DBS then yes, I'd 100% agree that Goku's Reactive Evolution would be far more reliable to use.

For sure, I agree that healing is essentially a non-factor here. Sonic and Knuckles would likely rely on other things if their backs were against the wall.

Yeahhhh, my fault for not remembering sooner lol.

No opinion on this part. I'm not sure if it's fair enough to be added or unfair enough to be considered a stomp match. I'll let others decide here.

Imo it would be a stomp because if by the slim chance sonic doesn't speed amp goku and piccolo kill knuckles and sonic, sonic resurrects, gets angry amps uses wisps, chaos control and stomps. Btw how long is resurrection?

 

[ShakeResounding]

Btw how long is resurrection?

It happens in like two seconds or so iirc, there's no footage on youtube and it's been years since I played Secret Rings

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

It happens in like two seconds or so iirc, there's no footage on youtube and it's been years since I played Secret Rings

Yes then it should definitely be a stomp since if sonic dies then knuckles is dead, which means sonic GG.