Observer vs True Demon Lord

[Voidnether]

SBA (Battle takes place in New York)
Speed is equalized
Both are 100 meters away from each other

The Observer — Ishmael
True Demon Lord — Rimuru Tempest

Ishmael:
Inconclusive: AlipheeseXIV, TheGreatJedi13, AlexSamDen, Richtofen115rdg5 (4)
Rimuru:

 

[AlexSamDen]

So, does Ishmael have anything against CM1 and Law manip

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Why does New York need to be destroyed Uhh, it seems Rimuru has an AP advantage and some hax potency advantage but how exactly does he get past ND2?

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

So, does Ishmael have anything against CM1 and Law manip

Just the ND2, from what I'm seeing seems she has the superior defensive hax while Rimuru has the superior offensive hax. Although, unless my understanding of the justification is lacking it seems his CM1 is not as dominant as others

 

[Voidnether]

Why does New York need to be destroyed

Because yes
Apparently, I just figured out Granblue Fantasy really doesn't have anything related to Nonduality after checking it out properly. Always thought at the least they'd have them..

I was wondering if ND2 on PGR gives you Immunity since iirc it has to be stated or else it wouldn't give you that.

Nonduality doesn't make you immune to things until stated

The nonduality page says that being nondual regarding something makes you immune to attacks using that thing. My simple proposal: Remove that, because in general that is simply not true. Instead make it something a verse can have the ability do if it clarifies the ability does that. I first...

vsbattles.com

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Because yes
Apparently, I just figured out Granblue Fantasy really doesn't have anything related to Nonduality after checking it out properly. Always thought at the least they'd have them..

I was wondering if ND2 on PGR gives you Immunity since iirc it has to be stated or else it wouldn't give you that.

Nonduality doesn't make you immune to things until stated

The nonduality page says that being nondual regarding something makes you immune to attacks using that thing. My simple proposal: Remove that, because in general that is simply not true. Instead make it something a verse can have the ability do if it clarifies the ability does that. I first...

vsbattles.com

Yeah, I believe GBF can qualify for it in some way shape or form but seems Jedi has not gone for it. ND2 on PGR does give complete immunity, it's pretty textbook so it works the same way that the example is given on the page. So I'm not sure what Rimuru could do given that

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Ig another angle Ishmael has is info type 2, seems Rimuru does not have that. Ishmael's Observer key is a bit lacking due to her chapter not having released on the global version of the game yet, otherwise she would have type 1 CM but I don't really wanna make excuses lol. What are Rimuru's defensive hax? Would be easier to get that info from one of you rather than looking at the page GBF is so massive I get lost

 

[AlexSamDen]

Ig another angle Ishmael has is info type 2, seems Rimuru does not have that. Ishmael's Observer key is a bit lacking due to her chapter not having released on the global version of the game yet, otherwise she would have type 1 CM but I don't really wanna make excuses lol. What are Rimuru's defensive hax? Would be easier to get that info from one of you rather than looking at the page GBF is so massive I get lost

Defence: at the very least AE on CM and Law, with which I don't see interaction on her page

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Defence: at the very least AE on CM and Law, with which I don't see interaction on her page

He has AE on CM & Law? Ig it's on the wedge physiology page? Well, yeah Ishmael doesn't have that currently so nothing she can do there

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Ah...I see to be a wedge is to literally be a law/concept in GBF, gotcha

 

[Voidnether]

Ig another angle Ishmael has is info type 2, seems Rimuru does not have that. Ishmael's Observer key is a bit lacking due to her chapter not having released on the global version of the game yet, otherwise she would have type 1 CM but I don't really wanna make excuses lol. What are Rimuru's defensive hax? Would be easier to get that info from one of you rather than looking at the page GBF is so massive I get lost

Afaik its on the true dragons one, thats the one called as wedge physiology cause what is tensura if they don't have IM2

Primal Beast Physiology (Granblue Fantasy)

Primal Beasts are Myth's/Concept/Abstract/Faith etc. given life, personality and sentience by Astral in Granblue Fantasy. It can range from already existing Myth to self-made myth from concept that only exist in the mind or Concept that can affect the beings that exist within the Verse. Some...

vsbattles.fandom.com

There's no nonduality whatsoever though, but there are like immortality and regeneration ig we'd just have to wait for the supporters since they're not active rn

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Afaik its on the true dragons one, thats the one called as wedge physiology cause what is tensura if they don't have IM2

Primal Beast Physiology (Granblue Fantasy)

Primal Beasts are Myth's/Concept/Abstract/Faith etc. given life, personality and sentience by Astral in Granblue Fantasy. It can range from already existing Myth to self-made myth from concept that only exist in the mind or Concept that can affect the beings that exist within the Verse. Some...

vsbattles.fandom.com

There's no nonduality whatsoever though, but there are like immortality and regeneration ig we'd just have to wait for the supporters since they're not active rn

Hmm...there is another problem tho, Rimuru can just summon Veldora (who I'm assuming is comparable to him in the collab story) with this the fight effectively becomes a 2v1. While I can't see them winning without bypassing ND2 I don't see them losing with the likely 8D stats advantage either, even if their is a massive difference in speed amps later down the line. I am leaning towards incon finding matchups for PGR is a little tuff

 

[AlexSamDen]

Yeah, I believe GBF can qualify for it in some way shape or form but seems Jedi has not gone for it. ND2 on PGR does give complete immunity, it's pretty textbook so it works the same way that the example is given on the page. So I'm not sure what Rimuru could do given that

As I remeber ND2 gives immunity to dualities inside the verse, that raises a question: would it still grant immunity to higher dimensional attacks? (by being higher than the verse)

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

As I remeber ND2 gives immunity to dualities inside the verse, that raises a question: would it still grant immunity to higher dimensional attacks? (by being higher than the verse)

Afaik, ND2 is one of the major defensive hax that can carry characters in fights all the way until around L1A opponents (similarly to NEP 2) the only way to circumvent or bypass it when characters are of similar tiers is through having the ability iirc, also Rimuru & her are equal in dimensionality, so I don't think that last part applies here specifically

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Wait...I just realized he's L1C and only 1C with Beelzebub???

 

[Voidnether]

Wait...I just realized he's L1C and only 1C with Beelzebub???

Yeah, Rimuru doesn't have any HDE
(That 1-C is 7-D, likely 8-D one)

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Hmm...there is another problem tho, Rimuru can just summon Veldora (who I'm assuming is comparable to him in the collab story) with this the fight effectively becomes a 2v1. While I can't see them winning without bypassing ND2 I don't see them losing with the likely 8D stats advantage either, even if their is a massive difference in speed amps later down the line. I am leaning towards incon finding matchups for PGR is a little tuff

Ok I kinda lied sorry it's pretty late where I am and I'm a little tired I don't think Rimuru can incon since he lacks the stamina to do so

 

[AlexSamDen]

Wait...I just realized he's L1C and only 1C with Beelzebub???

I don't think that matters much, because CM and Law are 7-8 D

 

[AlexSamDen]

Ok I kinda lied sorry it's pretty late where I am and I'm a little tired I don't think Rimuru can incon since he lacks the stamina to do so

Can't incon be reached by just existing, due to AE?

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Yeah, Rimuru doesn't have any HDE
(That 1-C is 7-D, likely 8-D one)

Hmm...we will probably have to wait until Jedi replies to this ig since he's the most knowledgeable on the verse, but...from what I'm seeing it seems it'll be a fairly high diff fight with Rimuru losing in the end due to his lack of stamina to properly incon

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Can't incon be reached by just existing, due to AE?

Not exactly, since Rimuru would actually run out of stamina after exhausting his magicule supply (regardless of how large it is) he'll eventually just incon himself even with the AE. Not to mention, because Ishmael has inf stamina she could just BFR/Portal him away which would result in a win through that method (she also does have superior intelligence)

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I don't think that matters much, because CM and Law are 7-8 D

That is true, but it does change the context of the fight a bit more in Ishmael's favor

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Hello. The Non duality thing does not exist in granblue as of yet.

Although there are nondual beings they cannot possibly hax them but can affect them physically or directly

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Hello. The Non duality thing does not exist in granblue as of yet.

Although there are nondual beings they cannot possibly hax them but can affect them physically or directly

What is your verdict Jedi? What are some major wincons Rimuru has other than what's been listed?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Hmm...there is another problem tho, Rimuru can just summon Veldora (who I'm assuming is comparable to him in the collab story) with this the fight effectively becomes a 2v1. While I can't see them winning without bypassing ND2 I don't see them losing with the likely 8D stats advantage either, even if their is a massive difference in speed amps later down the line. I am leaning towards incon finding matchups for PGR is a little tuff

You can restrict Veldora since that's like 8D or a higher tier. i believe it is allowed for fair match up but should be stated at the result

 

[AlexSamDen]

Not exactly, since Rimuru would actually run out of stamina after exhausting his magicule supply (regardless of how large it is) he'll eventually just incon himself even with the AE. Not to mention, because Ishmael has inf stamina she could just BFR/Portal him away which would result in a win through that method (she also does have superior intelligence)

Don't see BFR on her page, and portal can probably be absorbeb with Beelzebub

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I currently have no idea how Nonduality works in PGR.

Are they Nondual in 7D or only towards 6D entities

As for BFR. Pretty sure Six Dragon can portal in and out.
Lyria stated they can even portal to Estalucia if they want which is a 9D place

though it is not in the physiology page somehow (I'm gonna add that to my list of CRT)

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Don't see BFR on her page, and portal can probably be absorbeb with Beelzebub

Well she can BFR with the portal is what I meant, also he won't be able to beelzebub if he's out of stam no?

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I currently have no idea how Nonduality works in PGR.

Are they Nondual in 7D or only towards 6D entities

Hmm...that's a good question, using the info we currently have I'd say yes but tbf we have not seen Ishmael fight against anyone that's actually passed through the Gate. I don't like doing this much but...using the info we have from CN she was able to pretty much no diff a character even after they did pass through the Gate (which should make them 7D) but I can't really get into the specifics because it's untranslated stuff atm

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Hmm...that's a good question, using the info we currently have I'd say yes but tbf we have not seen Ishmael fight against anyone that's actually passed through the Gate. I don't like doing this much but...using the info we have from CN she was able to pretty much no diff a character even after they did pass through the Gate (which should make them 7D) but I can't really get into the specifics because it's untranslated stuff atm

Any idea what the dualities are under nonduality? Since it might likely become Incon and BFR may not even work due to Wedges range for their teleportation. (It's not only the Six dragon as initially thought since even Orologia can create portal or teleport which is specifically not a six dragon but a wedge)

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

As for BFR. Pretty sure Six Dragon can portal in and out.
Lyria stated they can even portal to Estalucia if they want which is a 9D place

though it is not in the physiology page somehow (I'm gonna add that to my list of CRT)

Can they do that even when out of stam? I went with the BFR assumption only after Rimuru exhausted all his magicules

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Any idea what the dualities are under nonduality?

Causality, Concept, Info, Law. Those kinds of things, other characters in the verse have the ability to manip all of these things at a high lvl and are just unable to effect or even interact with Ishmael but again, CN stuff aside this is mostly just the case for 6D characters. Won't really get a direct answer until her page gets upgraded sometime next month when I decide to make a CRT for it

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Ironically enough...there is actually another character in the verse who was recently introduced in a recent chap that should be 7D but is still an entire dimensional tiering below Ishmael (according to the lore) so it's very likely she gets raised to 8D but...that's neither here nor there. I also am voting for incon but, am struggling to see how Rimuru could incon with his limited stamina reservoirs

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Can they do that even when out of stam? I went with the BFR assumption only after Rimuru exhausted all his magicules

Probably not, but Rimuru can recover magicules just by resting. Though I'm not sure how fast. Creating portals is kinda a very basic ability for them.

When he entered the Sky-realm, all his magicules became unstable, but he was able to use his abilities just fine. untilhe was told to not use it by the six dragons

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Probably not, but Rimuru can recover magicules just by resting. Though I'm not sure how fast. Creating portals is kinda a very basic ability for them.

When he entered the Sky-realm, all his magicules became unstable, but he was able to use his abilities just fine. untilhe was told to not use it by the six dragons

Hmm...if he has to rest for an uquantifiable amount of time though isn't it a bit of a stretch to say he can incon against a character with infinite stamina? Also having unstable magicules is a tad different from not having any/depleting their reserves but eh...

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I am mostly on board with the incon

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Causality, Concept, Info, Law. Those kinds of things, other characters in the verse have the ability to manip all of these things at a high lvl and are just unable to effect or even interact with Ishmael but again, CN stuff aside this is mostly just the case for 6D characters. Won't really get a direct answer until her page gets upgraded sometime next month when I decide to make a CRT for it

so causality is a duality too. does that mean she should have Acausality type 5? Idk if we can allow NEP nature 2 as an assumption to be able to interact since NEp nature 2 is already considered to have a level of nonduality in existence. but likely not

Hmm...if he has to rest for an uquantifiable amount of time though isn't it a bit of a stretch to say he can incon against a character with infinite stamina? Also having unstable magicules is a tad different from not having any/depleting their reserves but eh...

The unstable magicule temporarily disabled all his capabilities and made him pass out. but he recovered quiet fast since he was able to awaken when Gran found him

and kinda ooc for rimuru to let himself become completely tired

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

so causality is a duality too. does that mean she should have Acausality type 5?

Something I was actually working on in the background

Idk if we can allow NEP nature 2 as an assumption to be able to interact since NEp nature 2 is already considered to have a level of nonduality in existence. but likely not

Nah the NEP 2 was kind of an example, it isn't meant to be a 1:1

The unstable magicule temporarily disabled all his capabilities and made him pass out. but he recovered quiet fast since he was able to awaken when Gran found him

and kinda ooc for rimuru to let himself become completely tired

Oh I see, okay then yeah that makes sense. Also true, it is ooc for him to let himself become completely exhausted but that's typically because it's in his power to do so

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Idk if we can allow NEP nature 2 as an assumption to be able to interact since NEp nature 2 is already considered to have a level of nonduality in existence. but likely not

Oh...okay I see what you meant here (sorry it is late where I'm at lol) yeah...I don't think using NEP 2 as an assumption to be capable of interacting with ND2 is smth that's allowed, since technically NEP 2 in of itself would still be bound as a sort of nonduality within an entire area of existence. Pretty sure the abilities function a tad bit too differently for that

 

[Voidnether]

I am mostly on board with the incon

Would it be fine for me to list it for now?