Watcher of Nihility vs Observer

[Voidnether]

Basically, Black Swan with Acheron on Rondo Across Countless Kalpas. But this time however, Black Swan isn't there and instead we have Ishmael as the Memokeeper. Obviously Ishmael is using her Primal Projection form when doing this to Acheron, however something Ishmael would terrifingly know soon that if you stare at Nihility for too long — It will eventually stare back at you. Thus, Acheron in that memory stared back at the Observer.

For starters, obviously Acheron would've known about this instead of her not knowing anything at all. Ishmael thinking that it's a risk someone noticed her down there decided to destroy Penacony and the rest.

• Standard Battle Assumptions (SBA)
• Arena takes place in Asdana galaxy
• Acheron and Primal Projection Ishmael are 100 meters away, however Ishmael could use her Observer key which would be her true form
• Acheron has access to Unsheathed Sword

Watcher of Nihility — Acheron:
The Observer — Ishmael:
Someone passing by — Inconclusive:

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Ignoring the massive AP gap...what can Acheron do here with Projection's acaus type 4, nigh-omniscience, HDM, DM & Info manip type 1? Been awhile since I looked at HSR's story so I could use the refresher if she has any counters at all.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Also, wait a sec. Her NEP type 1 was removed, lemme fix that cuz the person is too lazy to do it.

 

[Voidnether]

Ignoring the massive AP gap...what can Acheron do here with Projection's acaus type 4, nigh-omniscience, HDM, DM & Info manip type 1? Been awhile since I looked at HSR's story so I could use the refresher if she has any counters at all.

Well, Path of Nihility for starters and those are 12-D in terms of hax range and hax potency. The moment she unleashes the sword (Naught), like she stopped space-time altogether and Acheron could do the same thing that she did to Aventurine which would be to slash and teleport him into the Horizon of Existence. It's where the Void + EE stuff is, oh yeah and Imaginary Energy. Basically:

• Unsheathed Sword Acheron = space-time just freezes, this also activates the Passive Aura thingy and Imaginary Energy. However this doesn't erase them from existence yet
• Acheron could BFR her into the Horizon of Existence, as in her true form one because of the Hyperversal range. That's where she actually erase them from existence with the addition that whoever stared at Nihility would be irreversible

Despite this divergence, both sides agree on one aspect: The Border of Nihility solely affects its observers. In other words, once an individual has observed the Border of Nihility, they cannot stop this behavior and will irreversibly move towards the edge of the border, with no possibility of escape. Scholars intrigued by the Nihility speculate that affected Self-Annihilators and affected worlds will plunge into the Border itself, with their very existence eternally fixed to the other side of the unobservable Border, ultimately eradicated from reality.

That's all, fun fact though: Acheron could actually interact with all types and all aspects of NEP whether it be type 1, 2 or 3 in her NPI

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Well, Path of Nihility for starters and those are 12-D in terms of hax range and hax potency. The moment she unleashes the sword (Naught), like she stopped space-time altogether and Acheron could do the same thing that she did to Aventurine which would be to slash and teleport him into the Horizon of Existence.

This wouldn't work here though, Projection is alr used to moving in spaces where space-time doesn't exist or where it's as inconsequential as a map. Not to mention, Aventurine was able to move in the Horizon of Existence and didn't instantly die so it's EE is not instant, I don't even think the Horizon is 12-D since it just states it's the end of reality and not like...higher dimensional space where IX resides or smth? But I'm not gonna go on a tangent disproving this or smth, still...with 3B stats what exactly does Acheron do when she gets punched into oblivion? She can't deflect or block a punch with this massive AP difference or what if Projection tosses a universe at her? Projection has the advantage due to having nigh omniscience which Acheron is susceptible to, at the start of the fight she can realize these things.

 

[Voidnether]

This wouldn't work here though, Projection is alr used to moving in spaces where space-time doesn't exist or where it's as inconsequential as a map. Not to mention, Aventurine was able to move in the Horizon of Existence and didn't instantly die so it's EE is not instant, I don't even think the Horizon is 12-D since it just states it's the end of reality and not like...higher dimensional space where IX resides or smth? But I'm not gonna go on a tangent disproving this, still...with 3B stats what exactly does Acheron do when she gets punched into oblivion? She can't deflect or block a punch with this massive AP difference or what if Projection tosses a universe at her? Projection has the advantage due to having nigh omniscience which Acheron is susceptible to, at the start of the fight she can realize these things.

Aventurine resisted it through his Cornerstone, that's precisely the exact reason why (Astral Express cast even resisted Imaginary Energy in the first place due to their fight with Doomsday Beast). I mean, Horizon of Existence is the opposite of reality itself where reality refers to the Imaginary Tree given IX's NEP lacks everything that is in the Imaginary Tree. Whether it's a 12-D structure or not, it's still 12-D in terms of hax potency and range anyway

Acheron has like Immortality Type 2-3 to cover on that, but I mean Acheron itself is an extraordinary genius combatant though

Space-time not existing is practically just a timeless void, it's not inherently a resistance to it or something and even if she does: Couldn't it be bypassed by the smurf potency of Acheron anyway? Cause I don't think you actually need 1-A in terms of potency to bypass this

To be honest, I only view Ishmael's nigh-omniscience as something similar to cosmic awareness instead of it being like that. However that being said though, there are supergeniuses in PGR but their feats aren't exactly like what you intend them to act during a battle since those supergeniuses feat are similar to Otto Apocalypse or The Herta ngl

 

[Voidnether]

The tier being 3-B and this being Ishmael's only wincon is like, I don't know what to say cause genuinely Unsheathed Sword Acheron back then is High 1-C in statistics before it eventually got nuked. Acheron one is the most consistent feat back then before Phainon existed, given she's the only Emanator that could draw power from IX as much as she wants + on top of that, she also resisted it directly because the transformation affects her physical statistics

Well, if HSR weren't Tier 3 then there wouldn't be any matchup. That's boring

That being said though, Acheron's physiology could scale to IX honestly with the difference is that she would be NEP (Type 3) or something. That kind of NEP makes her invulnerable to any physical damage unless you're 1-A then you're only able to bypass it

I'm contemplating whether I should, or I shouldn't but it would make 99% of the matchups unusable which is like the reason I don't wanna do it lol

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Whether it's a 12-D structure or not, it's still 12-D in terms of hax potency and range anyway

Isn't hax potency not even being used that way with current wiki standards? I believe the "meta" rn is...unfortunately...supporting layered hax being over any amount of hax potency that isn't like L1A.

Acheron has like Immortality Type 2-3 to cover on that, but I mean Acheron itself is an extraordinary genius combatant though

I mean yeah but extraordinary genius doesn't change the fact her type 3 immortality is only mid, she can't survive being nuked from existence. Not to mention, nigh omniscience>extraordinary genius.

Space-time not existing is practically just a timeless void, it's not inherently a resistance to it or something and even if she does: Couldn't it be bypassed by the smurf potency of Acheron anyway? Cause I don't think you actually need 1-A in terms of potency to bypass this

I don't think that's how it works...pretty sure when it comes to resisting things such as a place lacking the aspect of smth...there is no higher potency that can change a person's resistance to it unless it is again...layered or L1A.

To be honest, I only view Ishmael's nigh-omniscience as something similar to cosmic awareness instead of it being like that.

It's not exactly cosmic awareness, still even if it was this would be a cosmic awareness that scales above Acheron to which she has no counter for. If Projection can literally see what's going to happen before it does, how can Acheron do anything? Inb4 you mention it yes...I am aware she has acaus type 2 but Projection's abilities work on people with acaus type 2.

However that being said though, there are supergeniuses in PGR but their feats aren't exactly like what you intend them to act during a battle since those supergeniuses feat are similar to Otto Apocalypse or The Herta ngl

I mean I'm not talking about supergenius intellect tho, this is nigh-omniscience. They are 2 very different things.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

The tier being 3-B and this being Ishmael's only wincon is like, I don't know what to say cause genuinely Unsheathed Sword Acheron back then is High 1-C in statistics before it eventually got nuked. Acheron one is the most consistent feat back then before Phainon existed, given she's the only Emanator that could draw power from IX as much as she wants + on top of that, she also resisted it directly because the transformation affects her physical statistics

Well, if HSR weren't Tier 3 then there wouldn't be any matchup. That's boring

That being said though, Acheron's physiology could scale to IX honestly with the difference is that she would be NEP (Type 3) or something. That kind of NEP makes her invulnerable to any physical damage unless you're 1-A then you're only able to bypass it

I'm contemplating whether I should, or I shouldn't but it would make 99% of the matchups unusable which is like the reason I don't wanna do it lol

I mean this is largely unrelated to the current state of her page, she's 3B for now and Projection has enough AP to nuke her from existence and she has no way to circumvent this.

 

[Voidnether]

Isn't hax potency not even being used that way with current wiki standards? I believe the "meta" rn is...unfortunately...supporting layered hax being over any amount of hax potency that isn't like L1A.

I mean yeah but extraordinary genius doesn't change the fact her type 3 immortality is only mid, she can't survive being nuked from existence. Not to mention, nigh omniscience>extraordinary genius.

I don't think that's how it works...pretty sure when it comes to resisting things such as a place lacking the aspect of smth...there is no higher potency that can change a person's resistance to it unless it is again...layered or L1A.

It's not exactly cosmic awareness, still even if it was this would be a cosmic awareness that scales above Acheron to which she has no counter for. If Projection can literally see what's going to happen before it does, how can Acheron do anything? Inb4 you mention it yes...I am aware she has acaus type 2 but Projection's abilities work on people with acaus type 2.

I mean I'm not talking about supergenius intellect tho, this is nigh-omniscience. They are 2 very different things.

Yeah, but as far as I understand: It only applies to those who are immune, not those who only has resistance to it. Those who are immune would be things like NEP, ND and whatever they're immune to in their fiction

If it was being nuked from existence, that's a completely different thing but I'm sure she resisted her existence being erased anyway. Even if it's mid, there's like kinda no reason at all to say the physical stats even if it's 1-C and 3-B: Would bypass the regeneration anyway, and we're talking like a 3-B that can utilize 1-B energy and resisting it btw

No, Low 1-A isn't the way to bypass it as it must be 1-A but layering, yeah. That being said in my first paragraph tho

I mean, Acheron's future cannot be seen by Elio that has Precognition that could see infinite possibilities and not to mention this is probably on a 12-D scale, I don't have a problem if her Precognition extends to 12-D though in range

Yeah, I know that but again from what I've seen on the justification: It's pretty much cosmic awareness, I don't think it's like in-character wise that Ishmael would do that. But if it's in her standard tactics then I guess she could given what scenario I'm giving you is practically the exact same when Acheron fought Aventurine lol

 

[Voidnether]

Matchup's dead, it was 18 hours ago when I posted this versus thread and only you replied but if it was with a mainstream verse. That thread would've been popular lol (HSR vs DB, HSR vs Bleach and et cetera). I mean I should've known but yeah, I already explained Acheron's wincon here and I honestly expected that Ishmael would've resisted Nihility itself but it seemed like I was wrong. Even if she actually does, it would've been a stalemate when Acheron's physiology scales to IX (NEP thingy)

Meh, invulnerability through NEP nullifies the wincon for Ishmael and I definitely cannot make this matchup if Acheron gets to 1-B

That's all ig, I kinda don't have anything to say anymore considering it's just us two lol

That reminds me of how HooH as an Aeon had this Nonduality (Type 2) where one of the things governed were Existence and Nonexistence. The former obviously refers to the Imaginary Tree and the latter would be IX, I mean that one stayed but I suppose: Acheron at the fullest potential if she scales to IX's physiology, it would be NEP2 with some kind of Nonduality (Type 1) in it but if I ever made a CRT about it. I prefer NEP (Type 3) anyway with no Nonduality involved. Just the aspects

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Yeah, but as far as I understand: It only applies to those who are immune, not those who only has resistance to it. Those who are immune would be things like NEP, ND and whatever they're immune to in their fiction

Not in the case of concepts, like being able to move in a space where time doesn't exist for example wouldn't grant you a ND or any sort of NEP just immunity to time manip.

If it was being nuked from existence, that's a completely different thing but I'm sure she resisted her existence being erased anyway. Even if it's mid, there's like kinda no reason at all to say the physical stats even if it's 1-C and 3-B: Would bypass the regeneration anyway, and we're talking like a 3-B that can utilize 1-B energy and resisting it btw

Brother if Acheron is galaxy lvl she can't stop a universe from being thrown at her and destroying her beyond her level of regeneration...

I mean, Acheron's future cannot be seen by Elio that has Precognition that could see infinite possibilities and not to mention this is probably on a 12-D scale, I don't have a problem if her Precognition extends to 12-D though in range

Well it isn't precog...it's just knowing what's gonna happen because you just know almost everything. It's not like Projection is trying to see into the future, she simply alr knows it.

Yeah, I know that but again from what I've seen on the justification: It's pretty much cosmic awareness, I don't think it's like in-character wise that Ishmael would do that. But if it's in her standard tactics then I guess she could given what scenario I'm giving you is practically the exact same when Acheron fought Aventurine lol

It is a bi-product of her status as a Watcher, it isn't something she turns off and on at will.

Matchup's dead, it was 18 hours ago when I posted this versus thread and only you replied but if it was with a mainstream verse. That thread would've been popular lol (HSR vs DB, HSR vs Bleach and et cetera).

I only took the time to reply cuz someone sent the matchup to me, but yeah neither of these 2 are mainstream verse's tbf.

I mean I should've known but yeah, I already explained Acheron's wincon here and I honestly expected that Ishmael would've resisted Nihility itself but it seemed like I was wrong. Even if she actually does, it would've been a stalemate when Acheron's physiology scales to IX (NEP thingy)

This was always gonna end with either a win for Projection or an incon at best cuz of Projections type 9 so...yeah.

Meh, invulnerability through NEP nullifies the wincon for Ishmael and I definitely cannot make this matchup if Acheron gets to 1-B

I mean...it won't really make a difference atp, you alr made a 3B vs 1C matchup and genuinely believe Acheron's hax potency to be 1B anyways.

 

[Voidnether]

Not in the case of concepts, like being able to move in a space where time doesn't exist for example wouldn't grant you a ND or any sort of NEP just immunity to time manip.

Brother if Acheron is galaxy lvl she can't stop a universe from being thrown at her and destroying her beyond her level of regeneration...

Well it isn't precog...it's just knowing what's gonna happen because you just know almost everything. It's not like Projection is trying to see into the future, she simply alr knows it.

It is a bi-product of her status as a Watcher, it isn't something she turns off and on at will.

I only took the time to reply cuz someone sent the matchup to me, but yeah neither of these 2 are mainstream verse's tbf.

This was always gonna end with either a win for Projection or an incon at best cuz of Projections type 9 so...yeah.

I mean...it won't really make a difference atp, you alr made a 3B vs 1C matchup and genuinely believe Acheron's hax potency to be 1B anyways.

It's explained in the Imaginary Energy page that Emanators have 1-B hax potency and hax range, I don't see why would Immortality (Type 9) even be a good ability when Acheron's Interdimensional on top of her Hyperversal range anyway. Well, I still don't think Precognition would work though cause that ability has to have the same range or it just wouldn't work at all and like self-annihilators are incorporeal tbh. That with Acheron walking the farthest out of them all so like

Their various existential properties — such as corporeal body, mental cognition, and personal memories... will gradually fade away in their journey of self-annihilation.

I thought moving in a place where this particular aspect doesn't exist wouldn't mean that you lack them though? You'd only get immunity if you specifically lack them

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

It's explained in the Imaginary Energy page that Emanators have 1-B hax potency and hax range

I don't think that's how it's really meant to be, it's more like you gain a portion of their power rather than outright their literal tier and range as that would kinda be an antifeat to Aeons but I'm not really gonna go back and forth on that honestly.

Well, I still don't think Precognition would work though cause that ability has to have the same range or it just wouldn't work at all and like self-annihilators are incorporeal tbh. That with Acheron walking the farthest out of them all so like

Yeah but for whatever reason, it doesn't change the fact that isn't on her page.

I thought moving in a place where this particular aspect doesn't exist wouldn't mean that you lack them though? You'd only get immunity if you specifically lack them

I mean lacking an aspect and having immunity because of it vs having immunity after an aspect of something you are shown relying on no longer exists are not entirely different wherein both give you an immunity. Whether conventional or unconventional, this is something that was approved by multiple staff.

 

[Hayato5652]

These two are my favorite characters...

Can they not fight ...?

Anyway, if Acheron has his 12-D abilities, the situation might get a bit difficult for the Observer.
Also, I think if Ishmael throws the Universe toward Acheron and an explosion occurs beyond Acheron durability, immortality Type 3 , and regeneration, it's definitely debatable.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Just so yall know this fight is washed now

 

[Hayato5652]

these two don’t even fight, they just sit together, drink coffee, play some games, and in the end, talk about their own worlds to each other.

 

[Voidnether]

these two don’t even fight, they just sit together, drink coffee, play some games, and in the end, talk about their own worlds to each other.

Peak cinema

 

[Hayato5652]

Just so yall know this fight is washed now

Just wait for Ishmael 1-B.
By then, it won’t be fight time anymore, it’ll be time to team up and take down the 1-B characters together.