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Obito Uchiha (Tobi) VS Muu

  • Fight Location: Place
  • Starting Distance: 20m
  • Both in-character
  • Equalized speed
  • Tobi and Edo Muu
Tobi: 1 (@XSOULOFCINDERX)
Muu:
Inconclusive:


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So what prevents Obito from just Kamui'ing through Particle Style like he did to Onoki and Genjutsu'ing him?
Obito transports members to another dimension, but some other members aren't transported, and could be taken by Jinton.

Obito also doesn't use genjutsu in-character and will have no Muu location.
 

GokuSparkle

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Hm...interesting match. Two high kage level characters that we don't see fighting much. Jinton probably won't be too effective since Obito will just kamui, but if Muu goes invisible and catches Obito off guard from behind he could erase him. Then again, Obito has shwon many times he can react to attacks from behind, like when Guy kicked through him when he was about to defeat KCM Naruto. In character, neither should have any knowledge on each other (although Obito might have some vague knowledge about Muu and his jinton), which could make it easy for either to get a surprise attack in. And Muu could theroretically stay out of Obito's range perpetually by flying and attacking again and again due to his constantly regenerating stamina, and if OBito tries teleporting to the sky and sucking him in there Muu can just fly away. Idk...I think I'll vote incon for now.
 

XSOULOFCINDERX

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Because they can see their chakra, while Muu's invisibility is stated to erase a detectable chakra signature
We've never seen that motherfucker's Invisibility interact with a Sharingan either, so there's no proof the Sharingan can or can't see through it.
 

GokuSparkle

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We've never seen that motherfucker's Invisibility interact with a Sharingan either, so there's no proof the Sharingan can or can't see through it.
Right after he stabs the invisible man he says
Naruto Chapter 243 Page 2

So clearly if he can't see the chakra where Muu is, he wouldn't be able to detect him.
 

GokuSparkle

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Well then he's just never letting Kamui deactivate since he knows he's in a fight and he can't find his opponent.
He doesn't do that in character. And that'll just stalemate, it won't let Obito win. And since Muu has infinite chakra while Obito doesn't that strategy would just end in Obito's defeat in a battle of attrition. He needs to go on the offensive to have a chance.
 

XSOULOFCINDERX

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He doesn't do that in character. And that'll just stalemate, it won't let Obito win. And since Muu has infinite chakra while Obito doesn't that strategy would just end in Obito's defeat in a battle of attrition. He needs to go on the offensive to have a chance.
Muu can never hit him and Obito will eventually just phase under the ground and come out when Muu least expects, just like with Danzo's Guards.
 

GokuSparkle

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Muu can never hit him and Obito will eventually just phase under the ground and come out when Muu least expects, just like with Danzo's Guards.
Muu definitely could hit him by a surprise attack, and Muu will see Obito slipping into the ground and expect an attack and thus stay in the sky. He's a very shrewd person from what we've seen. Don't compare one of the most powerful Kage to some fodder Jonin.
 
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Because they can see their chakra, while Muu's invisibility is stated to erase a detectable chakra signature
Sharingan users don't sense chakra though, so it doesn't matter if Muu erases his chakra signature, what matters is that he still has chakra and thus the Sharingan and by extension Obito can see him, his ability doesn't erase his chakra it just makes it so it can't be sensed by sensory ninja.

Also, we currently list the Sharingan as being able to see invisible stuff, such as Itachi seeing the King of Hell, there's literally no reason why Obito wouldn't be able to see Muu.
 

GokuSparkle

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Sharingan users don't sense chakra though, so it doesn't matter if Muu erases his chakra signature, what matters is that he still has chakra and thus the Sharingan and by extension Obito can see him, his ability doesn't erase his chakra it just makes it so it can't be sensed by sensory ninja.

Also, we currently list the Sharingan as being able to see invisible stuff, such as Itachi seeing the King of Hell, there's literally no reason why Obito wouldn't be able to see Muu.
Proof chakra signature doesn't extent to visible chakra? It'd be a pretty big oversight for his invisbility to not extend towards any dojutsu. I'm sure he fought Byakugan and Sharingan users before and thought of that.

The King of Hell doesn't have the same properties as Muu's invisibility.
 

AdNiBN002

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The speed being equalised actually makes the premise of this fight very interesting.

Something that i believe would be extremely important in this matchup is that Obito actually eliminates his chakra signature when activating his Kamui, meaning that Muu's inherent advantage of turning invisible, can effectively be matched by Obito's intagability while phasing through matter, to some extent. (It is also quite notable as Muu is a sensory-type, so his tracking capabilities would also be reduced).

The problem this would present to Muu is that any attempt to use invisibilty as a way to catch Obito off-guard becomes significantly less likely to succeed as the sheer task of simply locating Obito would become quite a tall order in this matchup (albeit Obito would also have the same problem, vice-versa)

Any attempt of splitting himself to create an opening wouldn't be effective either, as the divided state is not capable of using the Jinton (particle) style and would inadvertently give away Muu's biggest (and realistically only) win-condition.

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All of this essentially makes it extremely unlikely that Muu's particle style would ever actually connect, as his options capable of countering Kamui would be either:
a suprise-attack when Obito lets his guard down, or to hit him with a counter when he materializes.
Which are both options that Obito has dealt with before without issue on multiple ocassions.


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On the other hand, while offensive use of Kamui isn't ideal, it would likely prove far more potent than particle style as it is shown being capable of pressuring opponents who completely outscale Muu speed-wise in various ways.
(I am aware that Rinnegan Obito stomps Orange-mask Obito, but unless i'm mistaken, the Rinnegan doesn't boost his MS in any way and all of this should apply to his Tobi form as a result)

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However, what truly settles this for me is Obito's Izanagi.

What makes Izanagi so dangerous here, (aside from it being a get-out-of-jail-free card, in case Obito somehow gets hits by Muu's Jinton)
is that it's completely untraceable even by sensory-types, and can provide potentially fatal attack openings if utilized correctly (proven as Karin was completely unaware of Danzo being alive, while Sasuke wasn't able to react at all, despite heavily outclassing Danzo).

Specifically, it provides an excellent opportunity for Obito to backstab Muu by teleporting him into the Kamui dimension, with Muu having no legitimate way of anticipating Obito, aswell as not having any counter for Kamui.
At which point, Obito can win by BFR among other methods.

All of this makes me very confident in saying that Obito would win this battle, most likely in a similar manner to how he beat Konan.


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GokuSparkle

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The speed being equalised actually makes the premise of this fight very interesting.

Something that i believe would be extremely important in this matchup is that Obito actually eliminates his chakra signature when activating his Kamui, meaning that Muu's inherent advantage of turning invisible, can effectively be matched by Obito's intagability while phasing through matter, to some extent. (It is also quite notable as Muu is a sensory-type, so his tracking capabilities would also be reduced).

The problem this would present to Muu is that any attempt to use invisibilty as a way to catch Obito off-guard becomes significantly less likely to succeed as the sheer task of simply locating Obito would become quite a tall order in this matchup (albeit Obito would also have the same problem, vice-versa)

Any attempt of splitting himself to create an opening wouldn't be effective either, as the divided state is not capable of using the Jinton (particle) style and would inadvertently give away Muu's biggest (and realistically only) win-condition.

004-398.png
007-514.png



All of this essentially makes it extremely unlikely that Muu's particle style would ever actually connect, as his options capable of countering Kamui would be either:
a suprise-attack when Obito lets his guard down, or to hit him with a counter when he materializes.
Which are both options that Obito has dealt with before without issue on multiple ocassions.


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On the other hand, while offensive use of Kamui isn't ideal, it would likely prove far more potent than particle style as it is shown being capable of pressuring opponents who completely outscale Muu speed-wise in various ways.
(I am aware that Rinnegan Obito stomps Orange-mask Obito, but unless i'm mistaken, the Rinnegan doesn't boost his MS in any way and all of this should apply to his Tobi form as a result)

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However, what truly settles this for me is Obito's Izanagi.

What makes Izanagi so dangerous here, (aside from it being a get-out-of-jail-free card, in case Obito somehow gets hits by Muu's Jinton)
is that it's completely untraceable even by sensory-types, and can provide potentially fatal attack openings if utilized correctly (proven as Karin was completely unaware of Danzo being alive, while Sasuke wasn't able to react at all, despite heavily outclassing Danzo).

Specifically, it provides an excellent opportunity for Obito to backstab Muu by teleporting him into the Kamui dimension, with Muu having no legitimate way of anticipating Obito, aswell as not having any counter for Kamui.
At which point, Obito can win by BFR among other methods.

All of this makes me very confident in saying that Obito would win this battle, most likely in a similar manner to how he beat Konan.


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He isn't likely to use Izanagi as he only uses that when pushed very hard, and by the time Muu hits him once it'll be too late to activate it.

Also Rinnegan Obito>>>MS Obito, the Rinnegan is accepted as boosting physical stats.
 

AdNiBN002

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He isn't likely to use Izanagi as he only uses that when pushed very hard, and by the time Muu hits him once it'll be too late to activate it.

Also Rinnegan Obito>>>MS Obito, the Rinnegan is accepted as boosting physical stats.
Ah, my mistake regarding the Rinnegan then, although i still believe that Kamui would remain potent as a method against Muu as even just MS Obito's Kamui was fast enough to catch Minato and force him into using FR to escape.

As for the Izanagi, i wondered how it would work here as indeed, being hit by Jinton is basically just insta-death
Essentially, what counteracts this is that Izanagi is (or at the very least can be) activated preemptively before contact.

And although i agree that Izanagi might not be needed, the reason why i think it's important to mention is that it basically ensures that even Obito's worst-case scenario (I.E. being suprised by Muu and unable to dodge) would still result in a victory for him.


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GokuSparkle

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Ah, my mistake regarding the Rinnegan then, although i still believe that Kamui would remain potent as a method against Muu as even just MS Obito's Kamui was fast enough to catch Minato and force him into using FR to escape.

As for the Izanagi, i wondered how it would work here as indeed, being hit by Jinton is basically just insta-death
Essentially, what counteracts this is that Izanagi is (or at the very least can be) activated preemptively before contact.

And although i agree that Izanagi might not be needed, the reason why i think it's important to mention is that it basically ensures that even Obito's worst-case scenario (I.E. being suprised by Muu and unable to dodge) would still result in a victory for him.


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Kamui is his best chance, but it'd be hard AF.

But Izanagi only lasts like a minute once activated, then his eye will be gone, so Obito isn't gonna activate it randomly in the middle of the battle.
 

AdNiBN002

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Kamui is his best chance, but it'd be hard AF.

But Izanagi only lasts like a minute once activated, then his eye will be gone, so Obito isn't gonna activate it randomly in the middle of the battle.
Agreed, honestly what gives Obito the edge in attack here is more that his Kamui has a "relatively low" chance of hitting, compared to Muu's "extremely low" chance for me.
Because of this i do believe this will be a pretty drawn out fight, which again makes me think Izanagi can be a factor.
As unlike Muu due to him being an Edo, Obito can't sustain the "hide and seek" forever because his intagibililty can only last so long. At which point he might feel inclined to use Izanagi, similar to the Konan fight.

I agree that Obito wouldn't use Izanagi randomly and would most likely try to spare it, but as his intagibility would be pushed quite hard in this fight, i think that would enough reason for him to use it in-character.

All in all, i think either one of two things would happend:
1. Obito's Kamui would successfully hit after repeated attempts (unlikely but plausible)
2. The two have an extremely drawn out fight with multiple failed killing attempts, ending with Obito using Izanagi as his stamina runs low.

(Also this isn't that important, but Obito also seemed to heavily imply that his Izanagi lasts longer than Danzo's, although to which extent is unknown)


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GokuSparkle

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Agreed, honestly what gives Obito the edge in attack here is more that his Kamui has a "relatively low" chance of hitting, compared to Muu's "extremely low" chance for me.
Because of this i do believe this will be a pretty drawn out fight, which again makes me think Izanagi can be a factor.
As unlike Muu due to him being an Edo, Obito can't sustain the "hide and seek" forever because his intagibililty can only last so long. At which point he might feel inclined to use Izanagi, similar to the Konan fight.

I agree that Obito wouldn't use Izanagi randomly and would most likely try to spare it, but as his intagibility would be pushed quite hard in this fight, i think that would enough reason for him to use it in-character.

All in all, i think either one of two things would happend:
1. Obito's Kamui would successfully hit after repeated attempts (unlikely but plausible)
2. The two have an extremely drawn out fight with multiple failed killing attempts, ending with Obito using Izanagi as his stamina runs low.

(Also this isn't that important, but Obito also seemed to heavily imply that his Izanagi lasts longer than Danzo's, although to which extent is unknown)


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But what if he used Izanagi and then the timer ran out and THEN Muu got him?

1. Eh, maybe.
2. Muu is a sensor though so he'd detect Obito behind him, like he did with KCM Naruto.
 

AdNiBN002

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But what if he used Izanagi and then the timer ran out and THEN Muu got him?

1. Eh, maybe.
2. Muu is a sensor though so he'd detect Obito behind him, like he did with KCM Naruto

If Izanagi runs out of time then this might drastically shift in Muu's favour, enough so where he could win outright as the intagability would still be on cooldown.
But that's a very big if, and being completely honest i don't see any scenario where Obito uses Izanagi to counter and doesn't end up hitting Muu.

As while Muu is a sensor, Izanagi seems to be untraceable by sensory means, as Karin was completely unable to track Danzo multiple times in the Sasuke-Danzo fight.
Karin being unable to sense Danzo is actually a pretty major feat aswell as Karin is an extremely gifted sensory ninja who (aside from simply being purely amplified in sensory skills), has an uncanny ability to use sensory skills subconsciously, unlike normal sensory-types who need to actively concentrate their chakra to use sensory skills.
 
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GokuSparkle

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If Izanagi runs out of time then this might drastically shift in Muu's favour, enough so where he could win outright as the intagability would still be on cooldown.
But that's a very big if, and being completely honest i don't see any scenario where Obito uses Izanagi to counter and doesn't end up hitting Muu.

As while Muu is a sensor, Izanagi seems to be untraceable by sensory means, as Karin was completely unable to track Danzo multiple times in the Sasuke-Danzo fight.
Karin being unable to sense Danzo is actually a pretty major feat aswell as Karin is an extremely gifted sensory ninja who (aside from simply being purely amplified in sensory skills), has an uncanny ability to use sensory skills subconsciously, unlike normal sensory-types who need to actively concentrate their chakra to use sensory skills.
Maybe

I don't recall that. I'm pretty sure she just tried sensing if her or Sasuke's chakra network was disrupted and didn't sense anything. She could still track Danzo's location.
 

AdNiBN002

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Maybe

I don't recall that. I'm pretty sure she just tried sensing if her or Sasuke's chakra network was disrupted and didn't sense anything. She could still track Danzo's location.
She seemed visibly shocked on multiple occasions by Danzo constantly appearing out of nowhere. Normally i'd just chalk that up to it being a suprise attack, but as her trait is that she's extremely good at tracking even when letting her guard down, it makes me believe that there's more to it.
Karin not being able detect any chakra disruption also strenghtens my belief that it can't be sensed, as Izanagi technically qualifies as a Genjutsu.
 
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GokuSparkle

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She seemed visibly shocked on multiple occasions by Danzo constantly appearing out of nowhere. Normally i'd just chalk that up to it being a suprise attack, but as her trait is that she's extremely good at tracking even when letting her guard down, it makes me believe that there's to it.
Karin not being able detect any chakra disruption also strenghtens my belief that it can't be sensed, as Izanagi technically qualifies as a Genjutsu.
Do u have an examplr?

She can't sense the genjutsu, but she can sense his location, which is all Muu needs to avoid an Izanagi surprise attack.
 

AdNiBN002

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Do u have an examplr?

She can't sense the genjutsu, but she can sense his location, which is all Muu needs to avoid an Izanagi surprise attack.
Karin actually directly commented on this matter in the second pic. Aside from being visibly suprised multiple times, she also stated that she could only sense his 1st entity. So it seems unlikely that she would be able to poinpoint Danzo's location if she was caught off-guard and not able to detect the 2nd Danzo replacing the 1st.

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