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Well i was bored so here we go P3 vs P5 final boss. Both are fighting in the "real world" aaand there's no limit here.
Yaldabaoth:
Nyx:
Incon:
Yaldabaoth:
Nyx:
Incon:
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Nyx vs Yaldabaoth
- Thread starter MHXX
- Start date
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Yaldy is Low 2-C now so this kinda doesn't work anymore rip
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Pretty sure that's Philemon and Nyarla you're thinking of
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No, they are below her. Heck, the reason the entire collective subconscious exist is because of Nyx. Igor himself, who knows of Philemon and Nyarlathotep calls Nyx an 'undefeatable foe'
And she remains true to her statement. She is never beaten, nor is Messiah on par with Nyx (despite what this site says), all it can do is to seal itself which bars the path for Erebus to keep telling Nyx to killing mankind, but otherwise Nyx is untouched
And she remains true to her statement. She is never beaten, nor is Messiah on par with Nyx (despite what this site says), all it can do is to seal itself which bars the path for Erebus to keep telling Nyx to killing mankind, but otherwise Nyx is untouched
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Being the mother of all shadows does not make her the strongest.
Minato is weaker than Joker.
Those are the two fulcrums your argument is weighted on.
Minato is weaker than Joker.
Those are the two fulcrums your argument is weighted on.
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We should also note that this is a statement made before Yaldy and P5 were a thing and Nyx lacks the feats or context needed to scale as she is never compared to Yaldabaoth.
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Although, after talking to Sera, I think Nyx may be stronger or equal.
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Also remember that while Nyx created the chain of events that allowed for humans to grasp the Collective Unconscious, Philemon states the CU is the same power that crafted the cosmos which clearly is precedent before Nyx.
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She is literrally the only being who existed in the previous timeline besides Nyar and Phil (as the Night Queen in the alternate path). She is able to possess Kandori, the one who wields Nyarlathotep as a Persona.
Overall, there are subtle but clear things that indeed Nyx is the most powerful being. Especially because, according to the themes of the game, Death is final (while you can rebel against Control)
The only thing is that Nyx seems ... much more complacent than Yal, so he might trick her in not fighting him
Overall, there are subtle but clear things that indeed Nyx is the most powerful being. Especially because, according to the themes of the game, Death is final (while you can rebel against Control)
The only thing is that Nyx seems ... much more complacent than Yal, so he might trick her in not fighting him
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Nyx wins. She's the reason the Persona series even exists. The Collective Unconscious, the concept of Personas, as well as the Gods and Demons that appear in the series act as a defense mechanism against Nyx. Like, they're not even meant to defeat her, just defend humanity and delay her inevitable awakening. By concept alone, Yaldabaoth CANNOT defeat Nyx.
Also, side note, the reason Nyx's page isn't upgraded to 2-C is because that's Nyx Avatar's page, not the real Nyx.
While we're at it, can we give Makoto Yuki an upgrade too since he's the wielder of the Universe Arcana and was able to seal away the real Nyx.
Also, side note, the reason Nyx's page isn't upgraded to 2-C is because that's Nyx Avatar's page, not the real Nyx.
While we're at it, can we give Makoto Yuki an upgrade too since he's the wielder of the Universe Arcana and was able to seal away the real Nyx.
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We should wait untiol the Persona blog for this in which Nyx will be upgraded to Low 2-C.
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While yes, Yalda can kill Nyx Avatar, permanently destroying him is pretty much impossible since you need to get rid of Nyx permanently to destroy the Avatar for good, and as I've said above, it's out of the question.
Someone really needs to rework Nyx's page and include not only the Avatar's tier, but her true self as well.
Let's also give Makoto Yuki (and his female counterpart as well) a Low 2-C upgrade considering not only does he wield what's explicitly the strongest Arcana in the series (something not even Tatsuya and Joker could wield and not even Igor could comprehend), he also went toe-to-toe with Elizabeth all on his own and his soul was strong enough to act as the gate keeping Nyx behind proverbial bars.
Someone really needs to rework Nyx's page and include not only the Avatar's tier, but her true self as well.
Let's also give Makoto Yuki (and his female counterpart as well) a Low 2-C upgrade considering not only does he wield what's explicitly the strongest Arcana in the series (something not even Tatsuya and Joker could wield and not even Igor could comprehend), he also went toe-to-toe with Elizabeth all on his own and his soul was strong enough to act as the gate keeping Nyx behind proverbial bars.
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While I agree with upgrading Makoto to Low 2-C, I'm not so sure I agree with your reasoning.
I'm unsure about Tatsuya, but quite blatantly I don't know where the Joker comparison is coming from. Persona 3 chronologically takes place far before Persona 5, and those two games barely reference eachother at all. I don't see why we should assume that "Joker could not wield it".
Going toe-to-toe with Elizabeth only happens on a NG+. If we considered NG+ battles to be canon, then mid-game Joker would be Low 2-C due to the fact that you can beat the Twin Wardens before Joker undergoes the power boost by resisting Yaldabaoth. That would be a massive double-standard.
Your comparison to Nyx is actually a major common misconception. Makoto's Soul was not directly fighting or stopping Nyx in any way. It was purely a seal that prevented Erebus from ever reaching Nyx and awakening her, which means that he would only likely be comparable to Erebus under that feat.
I still agree with Low 2-C Makoto, since he does face off against the true form of Nyx at the very end of Persona 3. While it's still obvious that Makoto is nowhere near as strong as Nyx, he did manage to survive several powerful attacks against Nyx nearly unharmed by the end, a feat that easily puts him at Low 2-C.
I'm unsure about Tatsuya, but quite blatantly I don't know where the Joker comparison is coming from. Persona 3 chronologically takes place far before Persona 5, and those two games barely reference eachother at all. I don't see why we should assume that "Joker could not wield it".
Going toe-to-toe with Elizabeth only happens on a NG+. If we considered NG+ battles to be canon, then mid-game Joker would be Low 2-C due to the fact that you can beat the Twin Wardens before Joker undergoes the power boost by resisting Yaldabaoth. That would be a massive double-standard.
Your comparison to Nyx is actually a major common misconception. Makoto's Soul was not directly fighting or stopping Nyx in any way. It was purely a seal that prevented Erebus from ever reaching Nyx and awakening her, which means that he would only likely be comparable to Erebus under that feat.
I still agree with Low 2-C Makoto, since he does face off against the true form of Nyx at the very end of Persona 3. While it's still obvious that Makoto is nowhere near as strong as Nyx, he did manage to survive several powerful attacks against Nyx nearly unharmed by the end, a feat that easily puts him at Low 2-C.
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Okay yeah, I can see why the Elizabeth and Joker comparisons are a bit out there. Also, I might need to rephrase the Nyx part since the Great Seal kinda works like this:
There is a locked door that some (literal) two-faced idiot is trying to open it to no avail. So he decides to use a toaster in a vain attempt to tear it down. Little did he know, said toaster is capable of shooting bread at immensely high speeds, hospitalizing and nearly killing said idiot, sending him into a year-long coma. Oh, and the toaster is in love with the door.
Does that make a bit more sense?
There is a locked door that some (literal) two-faced idiot is trying to open it to no avail. So he decides to use a toaster in a vain attempt to tear it down. Little did he know, said toaster is capable of shooting bread at immensely high speeds, hospitalizing and nearly killing said idiot, sending him into a year-long coma. Oh, and the toaster is in love with the door.
Does that make a bit more sense?
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No, I wrote that one on the spot.
Overall, we do agree that Nyx and Makoto need an upgrade, yes?
Overall, we do agree that Nyx and Makoto need an upgrade, yes?
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Yeah, I agree. Specifically, given that Nyx should at least be comparable to the likes of Yaldabaoth, I think an "At least Low 2-C" upgrade seems reasonable. Note that I think Nyx will need her own profile, or at least her own key on the Nyx Avatar profile.
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Nyx's profile is still massively outdated, so until the cosmology blog is published, the resulting CRT concluded and the changes implemented, this is a blatant mismatch. And seeing as none of that is happening anytime soon considering Sera's taking a break from the wiki, there's no point keeping this match around.
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