NPI for The Witch (Town of Salem)

[Pikaman]

Here’s a little more:

The Witch’s magical power is able to attract Ghosts, showing they can sense it and thus were affected by it:




The Witch’s magic also works fine on the Grim Reaper, who doesn’t appear to have a solid body bar his skeletal hands:



None of this is perfect evidence, but it’s enough “maybe” instances of NPI to together argue for a “Possibly”


Agree: @Pikaman @RandomGuy2345 @Maverick_Zero_X @Dereck03 @Just_a_Random_Butler @Qawsedf234

Neutral: @Magicomethkuon (Leans agree)

Disagree: @Mr._Bambu

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Have the Ghouls in Town of Salem been shown to possess non-physical properties? Always felt like they're more of zombies in composition.

 

[Pikaman]

This is their only ever appearance, but aren’t ghouls inherently spirits (akin to ghosts)? That’s why I said a “Possibly” may work best

 

[Magicomethkuon]

This is their only ever appearance, but aren’t ghouls inherently spirits (akin to ghosts)? That’s why I said a “Possibly” may work best

By the classical definition of the word in legends and myth, Ghouls are more like zombies or demons. Furthermore, the ones in Town of Salem are raised by necromancers which does make me think more of a zombie than a ghost.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I actually looked up the difference between ghouls and ghosts, and I found a description for ghouls:

 

[Magicomethkuon]

I decided to search a little more! Judging from the pages of the Ghouls and the Necromancer, feels safe to say that the ones in ToS are depicted as Zombies:

Zombies (Town of Salem)

Zombies, or the Ghouls, are non-playable characters in the mystery role-playing game Town of Salem. Zombies are the deceased people reanimated by the Necromancer. The Necromancer reanimates them to use their own ability to the Necromancer's target. Depends on the reanimated person, they can...

villains.fandom.com

Necromancer

Necromancer may refer to: Necromancer, a role in Town of Salem Necromancer, a role in Traitors in Salem Necromancer, a role in Town of Salem 2

town-of-salem.fandom.com

In light of these statements, don't think this will qualify for NPI.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Ghouls are blatantly described as "evil spirits", so I think NPI might work here.

Of course, I recommend contacting staff here.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I decided to search a little more! Judging from the pages of the Ghouls and the Necromancer, feels safe to say that the ones in ToS are depicted as Zombies:

Zombies (Town of Salem)

Zombies, or the Ghouls, are non-playable characters in the mystery role-playing game Town of Salem. Zombies are the deceased people reanimated by the Necromancer. The Necromancer reanimates them to use their own ability to the Necromancer's target. Depends on the reanimated person, they can...

villains.fandom.com

Necromancer

Necromancer may refer to: Necromancer, a role in Town of Salem Necromancer, a role in Traitors in Salem Necromancer, a role in Town of Salem 2

town-of-salem.fandom.com

In light of these statements, don't think this will qualify for NPI.

If Ghouls are directly stated to be Zombies in-verse, then you can't really do anything about that.

Sorry, Pika...

 

[Pikaman]

Here’s a little more:

The Witch’s magical power is able to attract Ghosts, showing they can sense it and thus were affected by it:



The Witch’s magic also works fine on the Grim Reaper, who doesn’t appear to have a solid body bar his skeletal hands:




None of this is perfect evidence, but it’s enough “maybe” instances of NPI to together argue for a “Possibly”

 

[Magicomethkuon]

I don't know if this will be enough for others to accept NPI, but these are more reliable than the ghouls for evidence. Neutral for now. Among other things, calling the ghosts could be summoning or from the Witch having connections with the undead. And I don't know enough things about the Grim Reaper to factor them properly, thought it was just a skin.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

The Witch’s magical power is able to attract Ghosts, showing they can sense it and thus were affected by it:

I think this is enough to potentially warrant a "Possibly" rating.

 

[Pikaman]

the ghosts could be summoning

It was an unexpected side effect, so I doubt it, it’s more likely her magical aura influencing them.

or from the Witch having connections with the undead.

She doesn’t particularly have said connections though, and all kinds of monsters appeared alongside the ghosts

And I don't know enough things about the Grim Reaper to factor them properly, thought it was just a skin.

The Grim Reaper is a skin, but each skin is a genuine character with its own unique characteristics (For example the Demon skin has a custom lynch animation where Uriel kills them, because in the lore only they are powerful enough to do so).

 

[Magicomethkuon]

It was an unexpected side effect, so I doubt it, it’s more likely her magical aura influencing them.
She doesn’t particularly have said connections though, and all kinds of monsters appeared alongside the ghosts
The Grim Reaper is a skin, but each skin is a genuine character with its own unique characteristics (For example the Demon skin has a custom lynch animation where Uriel kills them, because in the lore only they are powerful enough to do so).

Then I'm still neutral, but leaning yes upon closer inspection.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

A tad ambiguous but Possibly NPI should be fine

 

[Pikaman]

Thanks! How much input would be good to get this accepted?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Thanks! How much input would be good to get this accepted?

Maybe like one or two more staff members, as like Mav said, it is a bit ambiguous.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

I am fine with the "possibly" NPI proposition.

 

[Dereck03]

Same opinion as Maverick and Butler.

 

[Qawsedf234]

A tad ambiguous but Possibly NPI should be fine

I guess I'm okay with this. There's not enough for a solid rating though.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Possibly seems best. Not discarding the possibility entirely, but also acknowledging that the nature of the feats remains uncertain.

 

[Crabwhale]

A possibly is fine by me.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I think this can be applied now.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm gonna vote no to this. Ghouls aren't ghosts, following traditional visuals for 'em they're closer to zombies than anything. Summoning a ghost is not grounds for NPI. We don't know what the Reaper has underneath there, and again, going by traditions, the grim reaper is a skeleton- not a ghost.

 

[Pikaman]

Summoning a ghost is not grounds for NPI.

Yes except this isn’t summoning them, it’s them naturally being attracted and influenced by The Witch’s magical power. Regardless, counted of course. the current vote count:

Agree: @Pikaman @RandomGuy2345 @Maverick_Zero_X @Dereck03 @Just_a_Random_Butler @Qawsedf234

Neutral: @Magicomethkuon (Leans agree)

Disagree: @Mr._Bambu

I had planned to apply the revisions this morning, would that still be possible given the new landscape?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's still not interacting with them in a way that is equatable to NPI, though.

I wouldn't, given the lukewarm feelings of certain staff members.

 

[Pikaman]

That's still not interacting with them in a way that is equatable to NPI, though.

Why not? Her magic clearly affected the ghosts. I was under the assumption any and all interaction with non-physical entities counts, given the description:

The power to interact with intangible or non-corporeal beings or objects.

The Witch ticks those boxes by interacting with the ghosts through her magic

I wouldn't, given the lukewarm feelings of certain staff members.

I mean, an agree is an agree. I was more asking if a 4:1 Agree to Disagree ratio of staff votes was good enough to pass a CRT.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No? Ghosts are drawn to her magic, that's not the same as being able to hit them with it. We may as well hand everyone whom a ghost can hear NPI via Sound Manip.

Not from what you've shown, no.

And I'm saying let's wait to see what staff members think when provided with a counter argument, when there hasn't been one of those yet, really.

 

[Pikaman]

No? Ghosts are drawn to her magic, that's not the same as being able to hit them with it. We may as well hand everyone whom a ghost can hear NPI via Sound Manip.

Ghosts are drawn to her magic because they felt compelled to follow it to its source. Her magic exerted influence over them, and thus interacted with them. I agree that it’s a rather shaky form of NPI, but that’s what the “possibly” pre-fix protects against. I’m well aware this isn’t enough for a flat rating

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Again, this isn't the same as hitting them. "possibly" has to be damn close to properly award, lest we begin handing out "possibly" in many silly cases (read: the NPI via Sound Manip for talking to a ghost). I'm aware of what you're going for here, but this isn't strong enough evidence, even for "possibly".

 

[Pikaman]

Being able to hit/harm non-physical entities is not required for NPI, just interacting with them

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Mr. Bambu's point is the reason why I was wondering in neutrality for a while. And actually, it seems to be:

Users can both see and interact with intangible, or non-corporeal, abstract, and nonexistent objects or life-forms and entities, allowing them to make physical contact and possibly cause harm.

Maybe put it as "possibly limited NPI" (verbose wording though that may be), if this gets through. Seeing how the interactions are bringing up many second guesses.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Users can both see and interact. The Witch isn't interacting with them. They sense her power, come over. If our definition for "interaction" is as low as what you're gunning for, we ought to change it, so as not to mislead people.

 

[Crabwhale]

Yeah on second though, Bambu is making more sense here. Changing my vote to disagree.

 

[Pikaman]

I thought sensing and being influenced by her power would count for “interaction”, but if it doesn’t, I see your point

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Damn...

 

[Pikaman]

Yeah it’s a shame, but Bambu does make sense

 

[Crabwhale]

Seeing as this CRT has been thoroughly rejected, I think it's appropriate that it be closed.