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Not yet, Sparkle, not yet....(Naruto: Part I Speed Revision)

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UchihaSlayer96

UchihaSlayer96

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VS Battles
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Hello everyone!

In case you couldn't tell by the title, this will officially mark the beginning of the Verse wide Naruto Speed Revisions. This moment has eluded us for the better part of five years, but it's finally upon us.

So strap in, grab your popcorn, and let's do this!

This will be uncharacteristically short and barebones because, honestly, there's just not that much to say or explain.

The Sandbox that has all of the changes speaks for itself. It includes all of the affected characters, with the changes being indexed in profile format, so ya'll can see what everything will look like. As with previous revisions, highlighting the changes individually is a pointless endeavor because we redid everything from scratch here. Not even the Calculations were spared, as we're working with an entirely new set of calcs and values.

Speaking of which, here are all of the new calcs and values. To specifically highlight the values we're actively using, they are as follows.

The New Values We're Working With:
Everything else in the Calculations Sandbox is pretty much just supporting calcs.

With all of that out of the way, there's a couple of minor notes I'd like to make to avoid any confusion.

Minor Notes to Keep in Mind:
  • As some of you may notice, some of the characters in the sandbox had more than their Speed ratings adjusted. This is strictly a Speed Revision, so what gives? So, basically, in those rare exceptions, we thought it'd be fine to make minor adjustments to all of their stats because the changes we made to their speed happen to affect more than just their speed. So instead of leaving them with incomplete profiles for god knows how long, we decided to just get it all over with here, since they're isolated cases that affect no characters outside of themselves, really. For example, Hinata and Tenten were Unknown in all stats for the longest time. We found an avenue to, perhaps, give them some scaling. It affects more than just their speed. So we just nipped it in the bud. That's about it.
  • Some characters that you'd think would be handled in the Part II speed revisions, such as Haku and Kakashi, are present in the Sandbox. Isn't this supposed to just be a Part I Revision? Well, yes, but these particular characters happened to affect certain characters within this revision's scope. Kakashi in particular is going to be a quintessential figure for these Speed Revisions moving forward, so we thought we'd update his value while we're at it.
  • What happened to Forest of Death CS1 Sasuke's Supersonic calc? Well, it's simple. The feat the calc is based on isn't valid, and here's why. The calc assumes that Zaku's using a sound wave to attack Sasuke, but he is not. Zaku's technique allows him to alternate between Air Pressure and Sound Waves. To increase the power he's pumping out, he can release a blast of "100% Air Pressure, 0% Sound Waves". He constantly switches between the two types of attacks in the midst of combat to suit his needs in any particular situation. Now, against Sasuke, he very clearly released the more powerful Air Pressure version, as we can clearly see by the damage he causes to the environment, which the DB makes note of. Oh, and please, don't bring up the fact that the attack had "Supersonic" in its title. That'd just be a classic example of the Nominal Fallacy.
With all of that out of the way, I'd like to give special thanks to two people.
1) @LordTracer. He has been my main partner in this project. We split the workload between us, and he's been a key part in why this revision turned out the way it did. Literally couldn't have done it without him.
2) @KingTempest: I'd also like to extend special thanks to KT, as he's the one who recalced all of the feats we'll be using in this revision. He also helped a bit with the sandbox as well, and has been with us behind the scenes from the beginning discussing everything and whatnot.
Massive thanks to those two, as I'm not sure if this revision would've even happened without their help.

Now then, let's get this party started, shall we?

Votes:
Agree: Dark_Soul20189, Arc7Kuroi, LordTracer, Vzearr, ssgengar, Excellence616, DarkDragonMedeus, SlendVeny, Shadyboi0, Dalesean027, KingTempest, That_moron2, LordGriffin1000, LuffyRuffy46307, NeoKingOfLight, BlastX,
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
Last edited:
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Click to expand...
We can even see Shikamaru Ino and Chouji protecting their ears with their hands, the fact that the attack has supersonic on it's name already implies that he used some degree of sound. Also the databook you showed was incomplete

LvB6Vuf.png



As you can see the very attack that was used on Sasuke appears on the dattabook and mentions the use of both ultrasound and air pressure, the ultimate attack where he uses both sound and air, it goes as far as talk about it's high speed
As far as I saw it appears to be first dattabook 188, if you have another translation be free to show
 
I have a slight issue with the Kimimaro bit. It doesn't really take into account the Curse Mark.

Other than that, good stuff. Maybe throw a couple "At least" ratings in, but that's just some semantics bullshit from me.
 
SlendVeny said:
I have a slight issue with the Kimimaro bit. It doesn't really take into account the Curse Mark.
Click to expand...
Which bit are you referring to?
Suigetsuhyugs said:
We can even see Shikamaru Ino and Chouji protecting their ears with their hands, the fact that the attack has supersonic on it's name already implies that he used some degree of sound. Also the databook you showed was incomplete

LvB6Vuf.png



As you can see the very attack that was used on Sasuke appears on the dattabook and mentions the use of both ultrasound and air pressure, the ultimate attack where he uses both sound and air, it goes as far as talk about it's high speed
As far as I saw it appears to be first dattabook 188, if you have another translation be free to show
Click to expand...
Fair enough on it using both, that's my mistake. I got both attacks mixed up.
However, the issue still kinda remains because sounds waves mixed in with air pressure blasts isn't the same as pure sound waves, I don't think. More calc savvy people can chime in, but I'm pretty sure the air mixed in would still affect things.
Also, again, the name is a complete non-factor. It doesn't matter in the slightest. Not to mention, it's a Viz thing, anyhow. The actual name does not include the word "Supersonic", or anything of the sort.
 
SlendVeny said:
The way the Hiruzen killing part is written makes it seem like the statements refer to his base form.
Click to expand...
If that were the case, we'd have added a "higher" with the Curse Mark or something.

We can hash out the specifics when we get to the AP redos (which will come after speed), but I think the best way to deal with it would be to do an 'At most [10x weaker than his peak]' rating for his base form perhaps, but we'll see ig. Also he doesn't use the Curse Mark against KCM, so who even knows atp.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Which bit are you referring to?

Fair enough on it using both, that's my mistake. I got both attacks mixed up.
However, the issue still kinda remains because sounds waves mixed in with air pressure blasts isn't the same as pure sound waves, I don't think. More calc savvy people can chime in, but I'm pretty sure the air mixed in would still affect things.
Also, again, the name is a complete non-factor. It doesn't matter in the slightest. Not to mention, it's a Viz thing, anyhow. The actual name does not include the word "Supersonic", or anything of the sort.
Click to expand...
I can't tell you the full science but the fact that the technique differentiates between sound and air, the fact it mentions it's high speed, the other technique in the databook inclusive says "100% air and 0% sound" which further supports the techniques using both sound and air, I searched on Google about air speed effect on sound and apparently since both air and sound where obviously released on the same direction, the speed of sound would actually increase rather than slow down, if anyone want to play scientist and say otherwise I will be fine
 
SlendVeny said:
The way the Hiruzen killing part is written makes it seem like the statements refer to his base form.
Click to expand...
That wasn’t the intent, I left out the Curse Mark stuff because we just don’t know if he would use it or not in those scenarios. Like US96 mentioned, Edo Kimimaro didn’t use it against KCM Nard, but we could give him an “At most 1/10 of peak” when we get to the proper AP revisions.
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
We can even see Shikamaru Ino and Chouji protecting their ears with their hands, the fact that the attack has supersonic on it's name already implies that he used some degree of sound. Also the databook you showed was incomplete

LvB6Vuf.png



As you can see the very attack that was used on Sasuke appears on the dattabook and mentions the use of both ultrasound and air pressure, the ultimate attack where he uses both sound and air, it goes as far as talk about it's high speed
As far as I saw it appears to be first dattabook 188, if you have another translation be free to show
Click to expand...
Suigetsuhyugs said:
I can't tell you the full science but the fact that the technique differentiates between sound and air, the fact it mentions it's high speed, the other technique in the databook inclusive says "100% air and 0% sound" which further supports the techniques using both sound and air, I searched on Google about air speed effect on sound and apparently since both air and sound where obviously released on the same direction, the speed of sound would actually increase rather than slow down, if anyone want to play scientist and say otherwise I will be fine
Click to expand...
You can't eat your cake and have it. It saying "100% air and 0% sound" means that he can control when sound is and isn't used.

The air is used to damage them while the sound is used to mess up their ears. For it to utilize full power, it would be entirely air pressure.

This is why we see air being blasted out, not sound.

He has the capability to use sound but sound wasn't used in the instance, which is why it was all air, unless you're implying he was holding back on Sasuke
 
KingTempest said:
You can't eat your cake and have it. It saying "100% air and 0% sound" means that he can control when sound is and isn't used.

The air is used to damage them while the sound is used to mess up their ears. For it to utilize full power, it would be entirely air pressure.

This is why we see air being blasted out, not sound.
Click to expand...
KingTempest said:
He has the capability to use sound but sound wasn't used in the instance, which is why it was all air, unless you're implying he was holding back on Sasuke
Click to expand...
The databook clearly referring to this very attack says it used both air and sound, I will also remind you the first thing I said in my comment is how we can see Ino, Shikamaru and Chouji protecting their ears when Zaku uses this attack on Sasuke. I will assume you didn't read my comment so I will bring it back again
Suigetsuhyugs said:
We can even see Shikamaru Ino and Chouji protecting their ears with their hands, the fact that the attack has supersonic on it's name already implies that he used some degree of sound. Also the databook you showed was incomplete

LvB6Vuf.png



As you can see the very attack that was used on Sasuke appears on the dattabook and mentions the use of both ultrasound and air pressure, the ultimate attack where he uses both sound and air, it goes as far as talk about it's high speed
As far as I saw it appears to be first dattabook 188, if you have another translation be free to show
Click to expand...
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
The databook clearly referring to this very attack says it used both air and sound, I will also remind you the first thing I said in my comment is how we can see Ino, Shikamaru and Chouji protecting their ears when Zaku uses this attack on Sasuke. I will assume you didn't read my comment so I will bring it back again
Click to expand...
It said the same thing for the one below, which can alternate between air and sound.

Air pressure is loud. Covering your ears to not hear the sounds air makes (especially air that pulverizes rock) doesn't mean the attack moves at Mach 1
 
KingTempest said:
It said the same thing for the one below, which can alternate between air and sound.
Click to expand...
And that one is specifically talks about how his technique allows for him to control both air and sound and then specifically states that that this one uses 0% sound, the other one is describing the attack itself as a "Dreadful disruptive pressure plays with ultrasound waves and air pressure
KingTempest said:
Air pressure is loud. Covering your ears to not hear the sounds air makes (especially air that pulverizes rock) doesn't mean the attack moves at Mach 1
Click to expand...
So? When he used air attacks before there was no need to cover the ears but suddenly in this very attack that is mentioned as using both they did.
This attack is the ultimate one if the other uses 100% air this one uses at least the 100% air and uses sound, the databook itself very clearly talks how this attack has high speed, its just so many evidence that ignoring takes mich mote effort than those excuses.
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
And that one is specifically talks about how his technique allows for him to control both air and sound and then specifically states that that this one uses 0% sound, the other one is describing the attack itself as a "Dreadful disruptive pressure plays with ultrasound waves and air pressure
Click to expand...
They both talk about how they can both use ultrasound waves and air pressure, and can freely alternate between such
Suigetsuhyugs said:
So? When he used air attacks before there was no need to cover the ears but suddenly in this very attack that is mentioned as using both they did.
Click to expand...
Ok mr cover ears.

They covered their ears because the environment was being shat on and the noise was too much, not because he used sound waves.
They weren't even in the line of sight. Ino didn't cover her ears, Dosu didn't cover her ears, even Sakura ain't cover her ears.

The ear covering is trash.

Suigetsuhyugs said:
This attack is the ultimate one if the other uses 100% air this one uses at least the 100% air and uses sound, the databook itself very clearly talks how this attack has high speed, its just so many evidence that ignoring takes mich mote effort than those excuses.
Click to expand...
How the heck would it use 100% air and any room for sound. You do know what 100% air means right?
 
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