Nonexistent Physiology Giratina

[Adem_Warlock69]

Credit to NeoZex6399



“While developing Diamond & Pearl, Giratina originally embodied the idea of an ‘antiworld,’ which is a paradox of Time and Space. It exists in relation to Dialga and Palkia. That’s what I had in mind when I was developing Diamond & Pearl.”

“I was not aware of any of that during the Diamond & Pearl’s development. Masuda told me about it when we started developing Platinum. So it was after Diamond & Pearl for me (laughs). I normally receive key terms from Masuda in the first stage of development, but there were many random terms like ‘antimatter’ and ‘e=mc2,’ ‘Reversed Mt. Fuji’ (‘Sakasa Fuji’) and so on. He explained that ‘Sakasa Fuji’ is the reflection of Mt Fuji on the lake, and it’s the antimatter world. It was challenging to put that concept into the game, so we did extensive research. I didn’t know what exactly ‘antimatter’ was either. I personally think I comprehend it well, but I wonder….

“Yes. It exists but it actually doesn’t. It doesn’t exist but it does. That sort of thing. The mountain exists on the lake through human eyes, but it’s only a reflection and doesn’t exist. It’s a diverse world. You see it only because you are looking at it with your eyes. I’m impressed [with Kawachimaru] for being able to take ingredients that were not substantial and incorporate them into Platinum.”

Arceus would also have this since Giratina is part of Arceus

 

[theultimate5105]

Looks good also at least arceus's NPI should scale to it if not the entire creation trios since Arceus has interacted with giratinas true form in canon

 

[Thelastmlg]

The arceus link is dead but we don't need it since it is already accepted.

I'm neutral on this, while it clearly states it doesn't technically exist, isn't the distortion world also refred to as made of antimatter and stuff?

No idea how antimatter works on pokemon since we don't have a matter pokemon, but in that case wouldn't giratina also be the embodiment of nothingness?

I don't think i fully understood what he mean't

 

[theultimate5105]

The arceus link is dead but we don't need it since it is already accepted.

I'm neutral on this, while it clearly states it doesn't technically exist, isn't the distortion world also refred to as made of antimatter and stuff?

No idea how antimatter works on pokemon since we don't have a matter pokemon, but in that case wouldn't giratina also be the embodiment of nothingness?

I don't think i fully understood what he mean't

basically it is antimatter but not in the way you think of it. Antimatter was just a term they used its most likely more the reverse of existence and it makes sense to have Giratina as the opposite of Dialga and Palkia which are existence

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Pokemon Anti-Matter is like the opposite of the world
Cynthia: I'm not quite sure how Giratina fits into this scheme of things, but... It's said that in the Distortion World, neither time nor space were stable. I think that tells us something about Giratina, the only Pokémon there. It must have been as powerful as Dialga and Palkia, the rulers of time and space. In some way, though, Giratina has to have a power opposite of theirs.

 

[Antoniofer]

A "mirror world" is not nonexistent per se, in pkm is basically another plane, with different rules yes, but Giratina clearly exist in the conventional sense, it doesn't not fit with our standards for NEP.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

A "mirror world" is not nonexistent per se, in pkm is basically another plane, with different rules yes

What about the "Yes. It exists but it actually doesn’t. It doesn’t exist but it does. That sort of thing. The mountain exists on the lake through human eyes, but it’s only a reflection and doesn’t exist."?

 

[Thelastmlg]

I think it means it doesn't exist in the pond we are looking or the world we are in, the fact he says it does exist makes it more confusing.

 

[Antoniofer]

Its just metaphoric language (it even says that it also exist) Giratina has manifested in the real world, and the distortion world its an actual dimension/plane.

 

[theultimate5105]

Its just metaphoric language (it even says that it also exist) Giratina has manifested in the real world, and the distortion world its an actual dimension/plane.

saying it also exists doesn't mean anything against NEP multiple characters have NEP and we know they exist within the story also his avatars would not have NEP so they would exist

 

[Thelastmlg]

I think i found another possible evidence, near the end of episode 11 of new generations, cyrus calls it a world of nothingness and says there is nothing there.

But that's on english though and might be different in jap, plus might not be enough.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Okay but neither Giratina nor the Distortion World show any signs of being nonexistent to any degree. The player can walk around in and interact with the Distortion World in any way they like with no issue. Same goes for the movie. And Giratina isn't harder to hurt than any other ghost type Pokémon.

The Distortion World being "nonexistent" is just a fancy metaphor for the themes of the Distortion World, how it's a "mirror" of the real world. That doesn't make it non-physical.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Pretty sure human entering the distortion world at all is a PIS inconsistency for the sake of plot

 

[Antoniofer]

Any reason why it is considered PIS?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Dude you can't just scream PIS when the thing you're trying to argue is never actually shown. You're twisting a metaphor into being literal and then you ignore every proof to the contrary.

 

[theultimate5105]

It feels weird to say but what happens might just be what your character thinks is happening but it is just a illusion

Masuda: “Yes. It exists but it actually doesn’t. It doesn’t exist but it does. That sort of thing. The mountain exists on the lake through human eyes, but it’s only a reflection and doesn’t exist. It’s a diverse world. You see it only because you are looking at it with your eyes. I’m impressed [with Kawachimaru] for being able to take ingredients that were not substantial and incorporate them into Platinum.”

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Any reason why it is considered PIS?

The Distortion World is apparently meant to keep you frozen in time or act as a Sealing Method

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You need a lot more proof of that than some old interview that talks about the inspiration behind the Distortion World and not the world itself.

Especially since every other lore piece treats the Distortion World as a physical place.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Being based off an idea doesn't grant special properties unless those properties are present in the work and aren't contradicted.

If you have any in-game content that can corroborate this, that would be better than just a tweet.

 

[Wokistan]

Seems contradicted by random people being able to just freely walk around in it, giritina being able to be perceived and smacked by everyone, Arceus being perceived and smacked by everyone, etc. I agree with rejection.

 

[Garchomp777]

In pokemon generations, Cyrus calls it a world of nothing. The "antimatter" in pokemon literally erases things from existence and even this wiki acknowledges it. Giratina embodies it. Giratina should definitely get NEP type 2

Humans moving in it doesn't contradict anything. Humans in pokemon aren't normal. The world is literally devoid of time and space is distorted and so are the laws of the universe. By that logic everything there is just a normal world because humans can move in it. Pokemon interacting with it would just give them NPI

And whats more, "space and time" are referred to as matter in pokemon in adventures. I don't think i need to explain why time isn't matter

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The Distortion World having inconsistent laws of physics doesn't mean humans are incapable of existing in it. In fact, them being able to proves that your idea of the Distortion World being completely devoid of space-time to be false.

You all need to learn that unsupported statements should not be used to give normal humans weird abilities just to excuse the fact that this statement is inconsistent.

 

[Wokistan]

Giving the entire human race an ability is a WAY higher proof standard than them interacting just contradicting what you want to do. Can you prove NPI for literally every human?

 

[Thelastmlg]

Also why the **** would that give him type 2, even if it is true that it is physically nonexistent, it still wouldn't be conceptually, he clesrly has a concept unless told otherwise.

Also arceus being smacked doesn't count, is his avatar and he has AE type 1.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Ayo what the ****

 

[NeoZex6399]

I would close this thread for the time being, this whole topic about Giratina will probably be discussed in the future with more clarity.

 

[Executor_N0]

I'm still working on my Pokémon Blog about the CT (Finishing my Diamond play through, next will be Pearl and then Platinum) and I would say that it could be argued that there's at least an intent of something like that for Giratina.

Yet I still think that the lack of explanation of how that type of existence works and how it could fit with our system would be a problem. Still I think that it could at least be mentioned about Giratina true nature.

However I'm still doing the text (Just released the one about canon), so for me it would take a while.

Don't know if there's already enough people to argue about that subject (Seems to be the case).

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Don't make me come down here and downgrade the CT to 2-C.