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Noah vs Medaka
- Thread starter DontTalkDT
- Start date
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Pretty sure Noah stomps here. Medaka cant copy 4-D stuff and conceptual hax is just too much for her
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It's not like Noah has conceptual erasure, though. So unless we do speculation on which concepts she can create besides what is shown, she is kinda bound to sing the concepts to use the abilities she has listed.
I agree that Medaka can probably not copy any of it, though.
I agree that Medaka can probably not copy any of it, though.
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Just by looking at abilities, all I can say is that Medaka's only wincon would be All Fiction or Bookmaker+Blitz, but since she doesnt use those in character, Noah takes this quite easily I'd say
Bobsican
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Medaka has to "understand" first to copy stuff, and Noah has a concept that allows to particularly prevent that, so that´s something at her favor.
All Fiction, however, is passive and may undo that stuff (also including conventional AP stomps and so on).
Here´s also a blog that explains All Fiction, by the way
All Fiction, however, is passive and may undo that stuff (also including conventional AP stomps and so on).
Here´s also a blog that explains All Fiction, by the way
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She doesnt use AF offensively, at least not in character
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@DontTalk
What's Noah's first move? And how does her mindhax and BFR works?
What's Noah's first move? And how does her mindhax and BFR works?
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Abilities are Reversed is a HUGE counter for AF, since instead of resurrecting Medaka, she would stay deadBobsican said:
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Doubt All Fiction would be able to erase Low 2-C concepts, so it should not be negating the abilities themself.
All Fictions passive application is one of the main problems for Noah. It's debatable whether Medaka actually usually uses it (IIRC her injuries don't vanish the Kumagawa's does and if she copies an ability she can amongst others deactivate it, which she also does with some passives).
But if it's active the only way I see for Noah to get around it (if we don't speculate on her being able to create a concept to counter All Fiction), is to use the "abilities are reversed"-concept to make all fiction not do that anymore.
Noah's first move would be to create a concept space (pocket dimension identical to their surroundings, but not spatially separated. Instead conceptually separated), while at the same time flying a few kilometers into the air (if she isn't already) and releasing her army of 300 000 machines to attack the opponent.
Noah's mindhax is pretty much just that. A concept makes it so that the superpower can exist and then she can force her thoughts upon others. It has a good AoE, having affected a small army to some extent.
The BFR comes with the caveat mentioned on the page. Basically Noah could create a concept space with her opponent inside and just leave. Since you would need concept manipulation to freely enter and leave concept spaces that can BFR quite well.
However, to expand on the note on Noah's page, only Tatsumi used concept spaces for that. That could be because everyone else in the series has tech that allows leaving concept spaces, though.
All Fictions passive application is one of the main problems for Noah. It's debatable whether Medaka actually usually uses it (IIRC her injuries don't vanish the Kumagawa's does and if she copies an ability she can amongst others deactivate it, which she also does with some passives).
But if it's active the only way I see for Noah to get around it (if we don't speculate on her being able to create a concept to counter All Fiction), is to use the "abilities are reversed"-concept to make all fiction not do that anymore.
Noah's first move would be to create a concept space (pocket dimension identical to their surroundings, but not spatially separated. Instead conceptually separated), while at the same time flying a few kilometers into the air (if she isn't already) and releasing her army of 300 000 machines to attack the opponent.
Noah's mindhax is pretty much just that. A concept makes it so that the superpower can exist and then she can force her thoughts upon others. It has a good AoE, having affected a small army to some extent.
The BFR comes with the caveat mentioned on the page. Basically Noah could create a concept space with her opponent inside and just leave. Since you would need concept manipulation to freely enter and leave concept spaces that can BFR quite well.
However, to expand on the note on Noah's page, only Tatsumi used concept spaces for that. That could be because everyone else in the series has tech that allows leaving concept spaces, though.
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How powerful are the machines?
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7-A & Hypersonic+, with some exceptions that might be stronger, I think.
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All Fiction can affect Concepts if we consider the anime, if not, it can't.
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Not Low 2-C concepts. And type 2 concepts also very debatable.The Causality said:
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Low 2-C Concept? Like Time?
No, All Fiction erased Type 3 Concept, nothing on a type 2 level
No, All Fiction erased Type 3 Concept, nothing on a type 2 level
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Like the concept created the multiverse.
And Kumagawa may be deleting time, but not the concept of time.
On top of that the concepts even have some resistance against being destroyed. Heck, in Owari no Chronicle canon nothing that is bound by any concept can destroy concepts ('cause why would they destroy themself...)
And Kumagawa may be deleting time, but not the concept of time.
On top of that the concepts even have some resistance against being destroyed. Heck, in Owari no Chronicle canon nothing that is bound by any concept can destroy concepts ('cause why would they destroy themself...)
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I don't really get the Low 2-C concept, can you explain a bit?
I know Kuma deleted time but not the concept itself.
Anyway, the good loser episode is treated as non canon (for now) so he doesn't have Concept stuff
I know Kuma deleted time but not the concept itself.
Anyway, the good loser episode is treated as non canon (for now) so he doesn't have Concept stuff
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The Causality said:
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The concepts we are talking about were together powerful enough to create the spacetime of the entire multiverse.The Causality said:
Hence doing something to them is a lot more difficult than, for example, manipulating the concepts used by some other characters in the verse, which only change the world at a lesser scale.
You would need tier 2 concept stuff to do something against the concepts doing what they say they do.
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Oh, then Noah oneshots over and over again until she finds out that Medaka has some resurrection ability. After that, she counters All Fiction with Abilities Are Reversed and winsDontTalkDT said:
Voting Noah
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Except that Medaka wouldnt know about Noah's powers to use FGM on her favor
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And with thousands of robots attacking her, I doubt she would use that anyway
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Medaka does use AF offensively. She did it against Iihiko. If the battles rolls off long enough for Noah to be that much of a threat Medaka will drop AF on the offence. Especially by the time Medaka dies once and returns. She will be dropping all the heavy minus on Noah when she returns for the second time.
Are both users aware of the concept space or just Noah. Also do these 7-A machines have defense against Weighted Words?
Are both users aware of the concept space or just Noah. Also do these 7-A machines have defense against Weighted Words?
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AF wont even work even if she uses offensively. And she used against Iihiko because all her other abilities werent working on him
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And if she dies, she wont come back, because Noah counters AF resurrection
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Why wont AF work? I dont see immunity nor resistance on Noah profile against Existence Erasure.
And you just said yourself "Oh, then Noah oneshots over and over again until she finds out that Medaka has some resurrection ability. After that, she counters All Fiction with Abilities Are Reversed and wins"
By the time the first resurrectionn. Medaka will be dropping everything. Medaka isny going to die another 5 times to start using all her best abilities.
And you just said yourself "Oh, then Noah oneshots over and over again until she finds out that Medaka has some resurrection ability. After that, she counters All Fiction with Abilities Are Reversed and wins"
By the time the first resurrectionn. Medaka will be dropping everything. Medaka isny going to die another 5 times to start using all her best abilities.
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I doubt she gonna use everything after she dies once. She doesnt use AF offensively, at least not in character
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Without special equipment someone else would not notice being put into a concept space. They would only notice other living beings that were not included disappearing and if they reach the border they would find a barrier they can't cross.Yusuke138 said:
Hard to say. The Automatons operate under the concept that metal is alive. With that in place you could have a living fork, meaning electricity isn't really necessary.
Of course these machines are way more engineered than that. Still, while overusing their power can overheat them, I don't think something like a power source or electric circuitry was ever mentioned.
In fact, the army build automatons entirely out of wood, so it seems rather unlikely that they are largely circuitry based.
