Ninjago Update/Fixing part 4

[Lloydblitzed]

Here we go for part 4, addressing multipliers, minor resistances and abilities and possible light speed blasts. Credits to @Vzearr for helping out on the Spinjitzu part a few weeks ago

Spoiler: Spinjitzu Multiplier

In The Challenge of Samukai, which can be considered canon due to not contradicting the show using WOG, the OG 4 were able to become 400x faster than their base selves using Spinjitzu, which would make them individually 100x faster than their base self, which gives us an official Spinjitzu multiplier

Why is it consistant?
Spinjitzu has be shown on multiple occassion to be a blitz lvl speed amp so fast the slower characters appears in slow mo. We also see them seemingly blitzing some monsters, who were reletive to them in base

Later, when discussing the issue, Vzearr told me:

Calculate the distance the skeletons move relative to the distance the character moves. If the character moves 100 times farther than the skeletons within the same timeframe, he is 100 times faster than them.

So I calculated this Spinjitzu feat within the comic itself:

1.7 m = Average Male's height
The Skeleton is 92px tall

1.7/92 = 0.01847826086 m

So 1px = 0.01847826086 m

273 x 0.01847826086 = 5.04456521478m

5.04456521478m = 500 cm

So this further imply it should be consistant

So how does it affects the Spinjitzu users?
The entire verse scale to the baseline of FTL, so this would make every Spinjitzu users MFTL using that amp

Spoiler: Minor Abilities/Resistance Additon + Other fixes

These are pretty simple and self evident:
Morro should gain all of Post Power Drain Lloyd abilities in his Possessing Lloyd key (due to litterally possessing bros body)
Dimensional Travel, Portal Creation and BFR should be given to all Realm Crystal users, just like FSM does
Each Golden Weapon should be individually Low 4-C due to 4-C (all GWs togheter) divided in 4 being Low 4-C
Empathic Manip should be given to Nadakhan due to him making girls crazy for Kai
Free Movement should be added to the Spinjitzu Physiology page due to Wu gliding on water using Spinjitzu
Unconventional Resistance to Transmutation for Overlord due to his metamorphosis and the fact he can resist Dark Matter, which not only corrupts but transmutate people into Dark Matter zombies (The 2nd part should also be placed as a resistance to all EMs as they can resist Dark Matter too)
Remove Unknown ratings to Bolobo, Neuro and anyone scaling to them due to EMs being clealry shown to be able to harm Anacondrais, who are comparable to the Ninjas
Give the Ninjas resistances to their elements all togheter due to taking their own combo big blast

Spoiler: Some Multipliers

Pre Dragon Rising
Lloyd, at the time of S7, is stated to be 120% stronger than a single Ninja
S8 Reborn Garmadon was implied possess the powers of the Oni Masks (u can see it here too), with the Mask of Vengeance being stated to be a 2x power multiplier, and the Mask of Hatred being stronger than the Vengeance one, granting another 2x power multiplier. Lloyd can keep up with that same Garmadon, making him 4.8x above baseline 4-C, which would upscale to every single post Oni Trilogy forms and characters since the Ninjas can somewhat keep up with him

Post Dragon Rising Multiplier
The Matriach power boost was stated by DR S1 Lloyd to triple his power, and Firstbourne is stated to be stronger than a Matriach, making her 3x above DR S1 Lloyd

Spoiler: Light Speed Lloyd blasts

Here are reasons why I think we should consider Lloyd's energy blasts light speed:

• Stated by Cole to be some kind of "green light"
• Consistently travels in a straight line as shown here, here, here, here and here
• His blasts are deflected on Metal as shown here (Chen used the element of metal here) and here

Agree: @ByArrow @DarkDragonMedeus @AigerTheKing @Ben_10_Stick_Nodes @MasqueTLDF @YmTheSuper
Disagree: @DavidTPPM
Neutral:

 

[ByArrow]

Agree

 

[Lloydblitzed]

counted

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks pretty straight forward.

 

[AigerTheKing]

I agree

 

[Ben_10_Stick_Nodes]

I agree with everything

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Agree, looks good.

 

[YmTheSuper]

I agree with the changes but i think the wording for this should be changed to being unaffected by their own combo blast as it indicates more clearly the resistance to the elemental powers

Give the Ninjas resistances to their elements all togheter due to taking their own combo big blast

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I agree with the changes but i think the wording for this should be changed to being unaffected by their own combo blast as it indicates more clearly the resistance to the elemental powers

Ye, makes sense

 

[Ben_10_Stick_Nodes]

resistances to their elements all togheter due to taking their own combo big blast

is that golden power

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Unconventional Resistance to Transmutation for Overlord due to his metamorphosis and the fact he can resist Dark Matter, which not only corrupts but transmutate people into Dark Matter zombies (The 2nd part should also be placed as a resistance to all EMs as they can resist Dark Matter too)

To Petrification as well since it is a sub-power of Transmutation

Give the Ninjas resistances to their elements all togheter due to taking their own combo big blast

Idk, they affect each other with their powers all the time, so sounds like an outlier (especially since this would mean they can tank their combo power in terms of AP as well)

Agree with everything else

 

[Lloydblitzed]

To Petrification as well since it is a sub-power of Transmutation

I thought he already had that resistance since it was accepted in another CRT

Idk, they affect each other with their powers all the time, so sounds like an outlier (especially since this would mean they can tank their combo power in terms of AP as well)

The Ninjas consistanly grow in power anyways, and they looked unbothered when they took a Spinjitzu hit from each other in Post S10

Agree with everything else

Alright

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I thought he already had that resistance since it was accepted in another CRT

Nope

The Ninjas consistanly grow in power anyways, and they looked unbothered when they took a Spinjitzu hit from each other in Post S10

They grow in power equally though. Zane froze Kai in Season 8, Jay’s Electricity Manip worked on Ninjas in Season 8 (when Mr. E reflected his attack), Jay electrified Cole and Kai in Crystalized, etc.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I definitely disagree with the 100x multiplier.
1. The statement seems to be only a hyperbolic way of saying they just got a lot faster.
2. You don't need to be 100x faster, stronger, or more durable to be as competent as 100x men. Spinjitsu makes them attack omnidirectionaly and throws them around with its rotation. Even without any AP or speed increase that already makes them superior to a regular person and far more difficult to fight.
3. The skeletons were specifically stated to be caught offguard which is why they didn't have time to defend themselves.
4. Most importantly, there is no evidence the ninja would only seem as 4 men without a 100x multiplier. As far as we know they could achieve this even without any multipliers simply because the skeletons are fodder.


The supportive evidence is also insanely weak. Them blitzing monsters "relative to them in base" is super vague and you didn't show any evidence that the creatures should be capable of dodging said attacks if they were relative to them. The scene portrayed them as super slowly moving even before the 4 used spinjitsu.
The calculation doesn't really achieve anything. Even if we were to assume everything in it is correct, blitzing someone by 500cm does not even remotely require a 100x advantage.


Overall the claim is extraordinary, the evidence is really weak, and the supportive evidence can barely be called evidence.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I definitely disagree with the 100x multiplier.
1. The statement seems to be only a hyperbolic way of saying they just got a lot faster.

The statement is consistant with the calc and the 2 other speedblitzing feats

2. You don't need to be 100x faster, stronger, or more durable to be as competent as 100x men. Spinjitsu makes them attack omnidirectionaly and throws them around with its rotation. Even without any AP or speed increase that already makes them superior to a regular person and far more difficult to fight.

That's not what the statement is referring to at all. Is clearly referencing to them being far faster

Seemingly everywhere at once, four ninjas might be as well 400

3. The skeletons were specifically stated to be caught offguard which is why they didn't have time to defend themselves.

They cornered the Ninjas. They had no time to prepare because they got speedblitzed. Same thing happened in Pilots. They can also dodge blows from Nya who is reletive to the Ninjas

4. Most importantly, there is no evidence the ninja would only seem as 4 men without a 100x multiplier. As far as we know they could achieve this even without any multipliers simply because the skeletons are fodder.

What?

The supportive evidence is also insanely weak. Them blitzing monsters "relative to them in base" is super vague and you didn't show any evidence that the creatures should be capable of dodging said attacks if they were relative to them. The scene portrayed them as super slowly moving even before the 4 used spinjitsu.

They were blantly shown to be reacting to the Ninjas attacks, even blocking Jay

 

[AigerTheKing]

4. Most importantly, there is no evidence the ninja would only seem as 4 men without a 100x multiplier. As far as we know they could achieve this even without any multipliers simply because the skeletons are fodder.

One of them could pretty much flee from Kai

 

[DavidTPPM]

The statement is consistant with the calc and the 2 other speedblitzing feats

It's consistent with them being faster, not being 100x faster. Either way doesn't change the fact that it's blatantly hyperbolic.

"4 men, might as well be 400" is very indirect flowery wording

That's not what the statement is referring to at all. Is clearly referencing to them being far faster

The scene specifically mentioned they were caught offguard leaving them with no time to react. It certainly isn't saying they suddenly became 100x faster each.

They cornered the Ninjas. They had no time to prepare because they got speedblitzed.

The page literally says "CAUGHT BY SURPRISE the skeletons have no time to defend themselves"

Same thing happened in Pilots. They can also dodge blows from Nya who is reletive to the Ninjas

Nya literally SLAMS multiple skeletons at once with a smile on her face. Like the only attack they dodge is her purposely aiming at the shelf to throw it over the skeleton instead of the skeleton himself.
She beats them like 1/7 in a small room.

What?

The 4 ninja using spinjitsu being "seemingly like 400 men" would only equate to a POSSIBLY at best multiplier if you had evidence they only "seemed" as 4 men without it.

To put it simply:
4 ninja with spinjutsu = 400 men
4 ninja without spinjutsu = unknown amount of men
Spinjitzu multiplier = the amount of men 4 ninja seem to be with Spinjitzu / the amount of men they seem to be without spinjutsu.

They were blantly shown to be reacting to the Ninjas attacks, even blocking Jay

Barely blocking attacks from long ranges sometimes ≠ relativity.

And spinjitsu being a speed amp ≠ it being a 100x amp. You can show all the evidence of spinjitsu beings a speed amp you want, it won't change the fact that 100x value justification is VERY weak.

 

[DavidTPPM]

One of them could pretty much flee from Kai

1. The scene literally just doesn't show what's happens after Kai starts chasing after him.
2. Travel speed ≠ combat speed.
3. One specific skeleton ≠ every skeleton.

The OP literally showed a scene of Nya absolutely SLAMMING multiple skeletons at once with 0 difficulty in a small room. The skeletons are fodder and the show portrays them as such.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

4 ninja without spinjutsu = unknown amount of men

Genuinely what

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The OP literally showed a scene of Nya absolutely SLAMMING multiple skeletons at once with 0 difficulty in a small room. The skeletons are fodder and the show portrays them as such.

Not in R/C, and they are powerful against Ninjas as an army. There also would be no use of Spinjitzu if they were that fodders, Ninjas would’ve slammed them without it, but yet they needed it.

 

[AigerTheKing]

1. The scene literally just doesn't show what's happens after Kai starts chasing after him.

He hides afterwards to make a magic spell work (not like it matters)

3. One specific skeleton ≠ every skeleton.

Same skeleton is reletive to the others. Even Samukai can fight reletive to Jay, and a swarm of Skeletons are fast enough to caught up Kai and lift him up

The OP literally showed a scene of Nya absolutely SLAMMING multiple skeletons at once with 0 difficulty in a small room. The skeletons are fodder and the show portrays them as such.

Higher AP ≠ Higher Speed

 

[DavidTPPM]

Genuinely what

What do you not understand?
When they use spinjitsu the narrator says
"4 men, might as well be 400" which is used as a basis for the 100x multiplier. But the ninja are clearly far stronger and faster than a regular men even and without spinjitsu, easily cracking tier 4 and FTL ranges in their weakest keys.

Them being as fast as 400 men with spinjitsu is only a 100x multiplier if they're only as fast as a single man without spinjitsu. Which there is no evidence for.

Not in R/C, and they are powerful against Ninjas as an army.

So they're fodder and only have a chance by overwhelming them with numbers.

There also would be no use of Spinjitzu if they were that fodders, Ninjas would’ve slammed them without it, but yet they needed it.

Stop strawmanning me, I never said spinjitzu is useless. It turns you into a big tornado which hits everyone around you + is possibly SOME speed amp.

Becoming a giant speedy tornado is already useful without it being a 100x multiplier.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

It's consistent with them being faster, not being 100x faster. Either way doesn't change the fact that it's blatantly hyperbolic.

"4 men, might as well be 400" is very indirect flowery wording

Spinjitzu is meant to be a speed amp, I don't see why the statement would imply an hyperbole

The scene specifically mentioned they were caught offguard leaving them with no time to react. It certainly isn't saying they suddenly became 100x faster each.

The page literally says "CAUGHT BY SURPRISE the skeletons have no time to defend themselves"

Because they didn't expect them to use Spinjitzu? They were litterally on guard in front of them

Nya literally SLAMS multiple skeletons at once with a smile on her face.

Why would the AP gap have any impact on speed ?

The 4 ninja using spinjitsu being "seemingly like 400 men" would only equate to a POSSIBLY at best multiplier if you had evidence they only "seemed" as 4 men without it.

To put it simply:
4 ninja with spinjutsu = 400 men
4 ninja without spinjutsu = unknown amount of men

Why would it not be 4 mens like they normally would? This litterally doesn't make sense

Spinjitzu multiplier = the amount of men 4 ninja seem to be with Spinjitzu / the amount of men they seem to be without spinjutsu.

They are blantly stated to go from 4 mens without Spinjitzu to 400 with Spinjitzu

Barely blocking attacks from long ranges sometimes ≠ relativity.

Long range??

That's not even the only example, Nindroids, who are stated multiple times to be faster than Zane, and called "so much faster" by Jay, got blitzed by the Ice Ninja, and by Lloyd too

 

[DavidTPPM]

He hides afterwards to make a magic spell work (not like it matters)

So he couldn't fight Kai 1v1 and is a fodder to him? It's all like they are consistently shown to be fodder in every single scene with them that you have shown in here…

Same skeleton is reletive to the others.

Prove this skeleton is relative to every other skeleton in the series.

Even Samukai can fight reletive to Jay,

Samukai is a high rank skeleton as far as I remember. And yall have literally shown multiple ninja absolutely ******** on regular skeletons which contradicts the idea that's Samukai = every other skeleton.

and a swarm of Skeletons are fast enough to caught up Kai and lift him up

So they only stand a chance (and still do literally nothing to him) when they outnumber him at least 4:1? Yeah sounds pretty fodder.

Also Kai literally uses spinjitsu but can't run away from them? He should be moving dozens of times than they can even percieve events happening so that's an anti feat for spinjitsu.

Higher AP ≠ Higher Speed

She's not slamming them with AP, she's easily avoiding all of their attacks and dancing around them.

Besides Nya clowning on them, this video you sent from 1:00 to 1:11 shows
1. Kai easily dodging skeletons without spinjitsu.
2. Two skeletons running away from Zane who's using spinjitsu.
3. All the skeletons running away from the ninja using Spinjitzu.

If Spinjitzu is a 100x multiplier they shouldn't even percieve the ninja.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

What do you not understand?
When they use spinjitsu the narrator says
"4 men, might as well be 400" which is used as a basis for the 100x multiplier. But the ninja are clearly far stronger and faster than a regular men even and without spinjitsu, easily cracking tier 4 and FTL ranges in their weakest keys.

It is 4 Ninjas, not 4 men… wtf are you on

Them being as fast as 400 men with spinjitsu is only a 100x multiplier if they're only as fast as a single man without spinjitsu. Which there is no evidence for.

Again, it says “four Ninja”, not “4 men”…

So they're fodder and only have a chance by overwhelming them with numbers.

And they’re in big numbers in comic, lol

Stop strawmanning me, I never said spinjitzu is useless. It turns you into a big tornado which hits everyone around you + is possibly SOME speed amp.

Not that big. And it is not “possibly” some speed amp, Lloyd gave plenty of evidence that it is a speed amp.

Becoming a giant speedy tornado is already useful without it being a 100x multiplier.

If 4 Ninjas simulate being as 400 via Spinjitzu, it means they became faster by 400/4=100. Simple as that.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Spinjitzu is meant to be a speed amp, I don't see why the statement would imply an hyperbole

It being a speed amp ≠ it being a x100 speed amp. That's an insane multiplier both in-universe and by wiki standards that needs extremely solid evidence. Something you didn't show.

Because they didn't expect them to use Spinjitzu? They were litterally on guard in front of them

The scene verbatim says, and I'm quoting "CAUGHT BY SURPRISE" they were CAUGHT BY SURPRISE. You literally cannot deny this, it's on screen.

Why would the AP gap have any impact on speed ?

Nya wasn't slamming them with higher AP tho???
Like at this point you're literally just lying, she was easily dodging their attacks and ******** on them.

Why would it not be 4 mens like they normally would? This litterally doesn't make sense

Why would they be? They're trained ninja who can shoot fire, ice, lightning, and earth. They're also all a ******* tornado rn.
I see absolutely no reason to think the ninja are normally only worth a single man each.

They are blantly stated to go from 4 mens without Spinjitzu to 400 with Spinjitzu

No, they were said to "might as well be 400". That
1. Is not a direct comparison but a figure of speech.
2. Doesn't give us a direct point of reference to them without Spinjitzu.
3. Is only achieved by the skeletons being caught by surprise.

Long range??

Bro wtf am I even looking at? I can't see what's going on here lmao

That's not even the only example, Nindroids, who are stated multiple times to be faster than Zane, and called "so much faster" by Jay, got blitzed by the Ice Ninja,

That's not a speed blitz, they literally ran towards him.

and by Lloyd too

The first half of the clip literally shows Lloyd BLITZ THEM WITHOUT SPINJITZU. Then they swarm him and he just starts spinning which like I said, makes him a bigass tornado so ofc he hits them.

But worst thing is, even if I were to pretend that this is good evidence of Spinjitzu being a blitz tier amp, it does not even remotely support a ONE HUNDRED TIMES SPEED JUMP. I feel like you're purposely misdirecting the conversation away from the actual justification for the 100x number because you know that you can't actually prove that

 

[AigerTheKing]

"4 men, might as well be 400" which is used as a basis for the 100x multiplier. But the ninja are clearly far stronger and faster than a regular men

its clearly refering to the amount of Ninjas present here

even and without spinjitsu, easily cracking tier 4 and FTL ranges in their weakest keys.

Skeletons are beings with infinite stamina, they are nothing like a regular man either

So he couldn't fight Kai 1v1 and is a fodder to him? It's all like they are consistently shown to be fodder in every single scene with them that you have shown in here…

Again, them being weaker doesn't affect their speed

Prove this skeleton is relative to every other skeleton in the series.

Samukai is a high rank skeleton as far as I remember. And yall have literally shown multiple ninja absolutely ******** on regular skeletons which contradicts the idea that's Samukai = every other skeleton.

So they only stand a chance (and still do literally nothing to him) when they outnumber him at least 4:1? Yeah sounds pretty fodder.

They outnumbered the Ninjas in the comic too. How does that impact their speed

Also Kai literally uses spinjitsu but can't run away from them? He should be moving dozens of times than they can even percieve events happening so that's an anti feat for spinjitsu.

How is that an anti feat when his feets are restrained?

Besides Nya clowning on them, this video you sent from 1:00 to 1:11 shows
1. Kai easily dodging skeletons without spinjitsu.

He doesn't blitz the skeleton

2. Two skeletons running away from Zane who's using spinjitsu.

Plot induced stupidity. We see them being unable to react to Spinjitzu many times

3. All the skeletons running away from the ninja using Spinjitzu.

Ye, at a huge range from them

If Spinjitzu is a 100x multiplier they shouldn't even percieve the ninja.

The Ninjas litterally see them as slow mo

 

[DavidTPPM]

It is 4 Ninjas, not 4 men… wtf are you on

Again, it says “four Ninja”, not “4 men”…

Jesus Christ bro what's the difference? They could be ******* 4 octopuses for all I care, point is that there's no reason to believe the skeletons would normally percieve them as only a single ninja.

And they’re in big numbers in comic, lol

Yeah, doesn't matter, fodder.
The speed jump is being measured based on how the ninja seem to the skeletons and how much faster than the skeletons they got. The skeletons being individually fodder makes the jumps much smaller.

Not that big.

It's big because it's omnidirectional which inherently makes it MUCH harder to dodge compared to something like a sword strike.
And like yall said, the skeletons power is in numbers. Omnidirectional attacks hard counters that.

And it is not “possibly” some speed amp, Lloyd gave plenty of evidence that it is a speed amp.

Again, stop strawmanning me. Not once was I against Spinjitzu being some speed amp. I'm saying possibly because every piece of evidence you show seems to somehow undermine your own justification with shit like 2 random skeletons perceiving Zanes Spinjitzu and running away from it when it should be like 30x above their perception speed.

If 4 Ninjas simulate being as 400 via Spinjitzu, it means they became faster by 400/4=100. Simple as that.

No because again
1. It's hyperbolic
2. It's contradicted
3. It assumes 1 ninja is only "like one ninja" unless you can prove every single ninja in existence is somehow on par with these 4 in terms of speed.

 

[AigerTheKing]

No because again
1. It's hyperbolic
2. It's contradicted
3. It assumes 1 ninja is only "like one ninja" unless you can prove every single ninja in existence is somehow on par with these 4 in terms of speed.

How tf does the 4 men refers to regular mens and not the Ninjas?

 

[henryzx900ruly]

Agree.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

Jesus Christ bro what's the difference? They could be ******* 4 octopuses for all I care, point is that there's no reason to believe the skeletons would normally percieve them as only a single ninja.

Yeah, doesn't matter, fodder.
The speed jump is being measured based on how the ninja seem to the skeletons and how much faster than the skeletons they got. The skeletons being individually fodder makes the jumps much smaller.

It's big because it's omnidirectional which inherently makes it MUCH harder to dodge compared to something like a sword strike.
And like yall said, the skeletons power is in numbers. Omnidirectional attacks hard counters that.

Again, stop strawmanning me. Not once was I against Spinjitzu being some speed amp. I'm saying possibly because every piece of evidence you show seems to somehow undermine your own justification with shit like 2 random skeletons perceiving Zanes Spinjitzu and running away from it when it should be like 30x above their perception speed.

No because again
1. It's hyperbolic
2. It's contradicted
3. It assumes 1 ninja is only "like one ninja" unless you can prove every single ninja in existence is somehow on par with these 4 in terms of speed.

now ur ratting what the hell

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Jesus Christ bro what's the difference? They could be ******* 4 octopuses for all I care, point is that there's no reason to believe the skeletons would normally percieve them as only a single ninja.

4 Ninjas are shown on screen and text shows 4 Ninjas... use basic logic lmfao

Yeah, doesn't matter, fodder.
The speed jump is being measured based on how the ninja seem to the skeletons and how much faster than the skeletons they got. The skeletons being individually fodder makes the jumps much smaller.

The context was about army, tfym

It's big because it's omnidirectional which inherently makes it MUCH harder to dodge compared to something like a sword strike.

No? It acts like an aura.

And like yall said, the skeletons power is in numbers. Omnidirectional attacks hard counters that.

Where do you see omnidirectional attacks again?

No because again
1. It's hyperbolic

Pretty straightforward. From 4 to 400.

2. It's contradicted

No? Lloyd showed that it's consistent.

3. It assumes 1 ninja is only "like one ninja" unless you can prove every single ninja in existence is somehow on par with these 4 in terms of speed.

Wow, 1 Ninja is not 1 Ninja... definitely does not contradict reflexive property of equality!

 

[DavidTPPM]

its clearly refering to the amount of Ninjas present here

Prove that and prove it's not hyperbolic given the statement.

Skeletons are beings with infinite stamina, they are nothing like a regular man either

Irrelevant to the topic but sure.

Again, them being weaker doesn't affect their speed

Again, nobody mentioned anything about AP.

They outnumbered the Ninjas in the comic too. How does that impact their speed

Yeah except, idk if you noticed, but in the comic they BECAME OMNIDIRECTIONAL TORNADOS. Yk, that's a pretty massive advantage since they go from 2 possible targets (1 per hand) to pretty much unlimited.

How is that an anti feat when his feets are restrained?

Man I sure hate it when my feet are restrained and it magically stops me from using my hands to punch people.

He doesn't blitz the skeleton

Never said he does.

Plot induced stupidity.

No, an inconsistency.

We see them being unable to react to Spinjitzu many times

You know what's very funny? Like 80% of the scenes from that video show the opponents visibly reacting to the Spinjitzu user. Usually by either walking towards them or slightly moving their arms or heads.

Which would be fine if you weren't arguing a 100x speed amp. By the time they move 1cm the Spinjitzu user should have already moved at least a meter yet in majority of those scenes that's not true at all.

Ye, at a huge range from them

You know what's funny? If the amp is x100 then Zane should have ran 100 meters before a single one of those skeletons moved a step.

The Ninjas litterally seems them as slow mo

Yeah inside of the spinjitsu.
But from an outside perspective the tornados movement speed does seem to be impressive at all and the opponents often react to it.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

How tf does the 4 men refers to regular mens and not the Ninjas?

It does not even say "4 men", it says "four Ninja".

 

[henryzx900ruly]

Prove that and prove it's not hyperbolic given the statement.

whats going to be the argument for premise 1(why it would be something hyperbolic.)

 

[DavidTPPM]

4 Ninjas are shown on screen and text shows 4 Ninjas... use basic logic lmfao

Yeah and the "they might as well be 400" panel also only shows 4 ninjas.

The context was about army, tfym

Them beings an army doesn't magically upgrade their reaction speed or anything.

No? It acts like an aura.

Yeah an omnidirectional spinning aura....

Where do you see omnidirectional attacks again?

Approximately in every single scene ever including Spinjitzu?

Pretty straightforward. From 4 to 400.

The only thing straightforward about "4 ninja, might as well be 400" is that it's a hyperbole.

No? Lloyd showed that it's consistent.

Except like every second scene with Spinjitzu contradicts it by showing that the opponents can clearly percieve them and move before they get hit.

Wow, 1 Ninja is not 1 Ninja... definitely does not contradict reflexive property of equality!

Again stop strawmanning me. I didn't say they aren't literally 1, I said there's no evidence they "seem" as one same way they "seem as 400" with Spinjitzu.

 

[DavidTPPM]

whats going to be the argument for premise 1(why it would be something hyperbolic.)

Because of the flowery and indirect wording.
Plus the fact it constantly gets contradicted constantly (one of the scenes the guys here showed literally shows 2 random skeletons seeing Spinjitzu coming toward them and running away from it)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Yeah and the "they might as well be 400" panel also only shows 4 ninjas.

It means that they can act as 400 due to speed, not literally duplicating themselves...

Them beings an army doesn't magically upgrade their reaction speed or anything.

Their reaction speed was always comparable to Ninjas LOL

Yeah an omnidirectional spinning aura....

Very small one

Approximately in every single scene ever including Spinjitzu?

Standard Melee Range, LOL.

The only thing straightforward about "4 ninja, might as well be 400" is that it's a hyperbole.

No? I alraedy explained why this implies 100x speed amp.

Except like every second scene with Spinjitzu contradicts it by showing that the opponents can clearly percieve them and move before they get hit.

Aim-dodging exists.

Again stop strawmanning me. I didn't say they aren't literally 1, I said there's no evidence they "seem" as one same way they "seem as 400" with Spinjitzu.

I still don't get your argument at all. 4 Ninjas refer to OG Ninjas since they're on comic, "Ninja" is not a measurement in Ninjago or IRL.

 

[AigerTheKing]

Again, nobody mentioned anything about AP.

You did lol

Yeah except, idk if you noticed, but in the comic they BECAME OMNIDIRECTIONAL TORNADOS. Yk, that's a pretty massive advantage since they go from 2 possible targets (1 per hand) to pretty much unlimited.

Spinjitzu shown to be dodgable if fast enough.

Man I sure hate it when my feet are restrained and it magically stops me from using my hands to punch people.

What the hell are u trying to prove here

You know what's very funny? Like 80% of the scenes from that video show the opponents visibly reacting to the Spinjitzu user. Usually by either walking towards them or slightly moving their arms or heads.

They clearly don't possess the combat speed to do anything against it

Which would be fine if you weren't arguing a 100x speed amp. By the time they move 1cm the Spinjitzu user should have already moved at least a meter yet in majority of those scenes that's not true at all.

You know what's funny? If the amp is x100 then Zane should have ran 100 meters before a single one of those skeletons moved a step.

Ahem the calc Lloyd did litterally did a calc showing Kai move 500 cm in a single frame + Appeal to visual and Assumption fallacy

Vermillions who are reletive to be Ninjas get absolutly speedblitzed when they pull out Spinjitzu, the other Ninjas does too against Nindroids. Its consistanly portrayed to be a blitz amp technique, and one little inconsistancy contradicted by 2 other clips in the same scene isn't debunking it

 

[DavidTPPM]

Idk if yall realize but high multipliers need VERY strong evidence with no contradictions.
Just randomly going over a video YOU sent :

9:44 shows the snake opponent perceiving the ninja in Spinjitzu, physically moving into a battle poses, then us Spinjitzu of his own to counter after which he becomes relative to them.

2:55 the snakes clearly percieve and attack Jay using Spinjitzu

3:00 shows the snake perceiving and attacking the Wus Spinjitzu multiple times until it stops.

5:52 the fodder grunts period the Spinjitzu and put themselves into fighting stance as it approaches them

6:04 snakes visibly walk away from incoming Spinjitzu

7:15 opponent clearly percieves them, puts up a weapon, and teleports away

7:50 Kai straight up gets punched out of Spinjitzu

Those are just random ones that are painfully obvious but in almost every single scene involving Spinjitzu you visibly see the opponents either run towards it or do something less a step back or move their hands. Stuff that should be impossible as they should be several perception blitz tiers below the attack