New Sonic (Game Canon) feats.

[Davy0]

This will come into question. So I'm gonna ask right here and now and make sure a good number of people accept it considering the feat I just found after looking through some stuff around the net and on Sonic Wiki.

The Chaos Emerald's, have been shown to have the ability to actually destroy "multiple stars". I know, a shocker. But it brings into perspective some of the opponents that Sonic and the others have been facing throughout the canon, that have been capable of beating them despite having only a Planets worth of destructive power. And something doesn't seem right about that.

The feat in question (and yes Sonic Battle is canon, it comes before Advance 3 and after Shadow the Hedgehog due to Shadow talking about his memories and gaining them back) is this .

Also, certain conversations from series like Sonic Rush, about the Sol Emerald's and the Chaos Emerald's possibly being capable of making both "worlds" explode when in direct vicinity of one another, is also an interesting little thing to think about.

Your thoughts?

 

[Antvasima]

I don't know? If none of the foes that they have been facing have demonstrated anywhere close to this scale of power, it stands to reason that they either didn't access their full power regardless of personal delusions, or that the different games are somewhat inconsistent with each other in this regard.

 

[Davy0]

Except they did. Characters like Solaris, P. Chaos (Sonic beat alone in his base the second time), the Egg Dragoon (Wielding the Jeweled Scepter), Egg Salamander (Wielding the full power of the Sol Emerald's which are equivalent to the Chaos Emerald's in power), Emerl (who has the power of all the Chaos Emeralds who is beaten by Sonic ALONE, again), Nega Wisp Mother (Who's canon is debateable, though actually it isn't, it could have indeed happened as a side event, much like the beginning of Sonic Unleashed), Perfect Dark Gaia whose power is debatably larger than shown (though it's only a theory from me, the reason that the Emerald's had lost their luster after causing the entire planet to crack open was because the actual energy was absorbed by Dark Gaia instead of just awakening it), and Time Eater, who are the ones that I can think about off the top of my head.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Let's wait to see what other people say about this?

 

[Davy0]

That's what I'm sayin'. But yeah, Thinkin' that if the Egg Blaster stuff is true, super forms need a major boost. Also. Chaos.

Can it be scaled to the powers shown by the Ark during Sonic Adventure 2, that's another interestin' question.

 

[Antvasima]

What power level did the Ark display?

 

[Davy0]

City Busting the first time, Multi Continental the second time, and potentially (very likely) planetary the third and final time. It's where we get the calcs from for the Super Forms, actually.

 

[Antvasima]

All right.

 

[Davy0]

But yeah, let's just wait. If this is true, Hyper forms are also more powerful than we truly think. Should also give some decent durability to some of the stronger villains faced off against.

 

[Antvasima]

Btw: Could you create a separate Archie Sonic verse page to keep the games and comics profiles separate?

 

[Davy0]

I think I can. I'll do it tomorrow though, getting ready to go to bed in a bit. Actually I'll make it now and whoever wants to help bring them over can, otherwise I'll do it later.

 

[Kavpeny]

I think "potentially Planet level" would be the most appropriate rating for the feat. Don't know about the subsequent power-scaling, given that I don't know much about the Sonic Verse.

 

[Davy0]

Have you not even seen the video. He says that he's destroying "multiple stars", not "planets". Actual stars, there's no way that's just planet level.

 

[Davy0]

Ah wait, were you talkin' about Chaos? He couldn't be potentially planet level. He's got to be planet level + just because he should be on par with Super Forms in destructive capacity which are scaled from the Ark. The Ark could also pierce through stars with its energy, which is also a good feat.

 

[Unclechairman]

I'm a bit wary about placing Perfect Chaos at Planet Level, since he's the reason the base forms are City Level (scaling from Sonic who defeated him in Generations without going Super). If we put him at Planet Level, we're scaling him from Super characters whose base forms are at the same time scaled from him, creating, for lack of a better word, a clusterfuck.

 

[Rib78]

The base forms shouldn't be scaled to Perfect Chaos to begin with, Base Sonic doesn't have anything close to Perfect Chaos' offensive power. He beat him in Generations by striking a weakspot; he's the better fighter but he's not stronger.

We scale characters to characters they've beaten because that generally applies that their stats are equal or greater but Sonic's offense obviously isn't better than Chaos'.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the information.

 

[Unclechairman]

The base forms shouldn't be scaled to Perfect Chaos to begin with, Base Sonic doesn't have anything close to Perfect Chaos' offensive power. He beat him in Generations by striking a weakspot; he's the better fighter but he's not stronger.
We scale characters to characters they've beaten because that generally applies that their stats are equal or greater but Sonic's offense obviously isn't better than Chaos'.

Of course he isn't stronger, but he'd have to have a comparable level of power to be able to strike that weak point. Striking Perfect Chaos' weak point requires gathering enough speed to be able to push up through his body and into his head. Previously, this was something only Super Sonic was capable of. Sonic was also comfortably capable of taking Perfect Chaos' attacks in Generations unless you try and fall on game mechanics and say it was only because of rings.

 

[Davy0]

The base forms shouldn't be scaled to Perfect Chaos to begin with, Base Sonic doesn't have anything close to Perfect Chaos' offensive power. He beat him in Generations by striking a weakspot; he's the better fighter but he's not stronger.
We scale characters to characters they've beaten because that generally applies that their stats are equal or greater but Sonic's offense obviously isn't better than Chaos'.

Of course he isn't stronger, but he'd have to have a comparable level of power to be able to strike that weak point. Striking Perfect Chaos' weak point requires gathering enough speed to be able to push up through his body and into his head. Previously, this was something only Super Sonic was capable of. Sonic was also comfortably capable of taking Perfect Chaos' attacks in Generations unless you try and fall on game mechanics and say it was only because of rings.

I'm not saying that Sonic's planet level here guys, but yeah, the destructive capacity of Sonic was either always at this level, or the special properties of the Chaos Emerald's were used to make Chaos "positive" because in comments at the beginning of the fight, Tails commented about the special "negative" and "positive" properties of the Chaos Emeralds. Literally, Sonic used the positive properties of the Emerald's to knock Chaos back to being good.

In Sonic Generations, he didn't need such a thing. There's no doubt it's the same entity that he'd faced before, just with certain changes done. But it is in fact the same entity because Perfect Chaos would still have to go through the Metamorphosis of gathering all seven Chaos Emeralds to assume the form of Perfect Chaos to begin with.

Whether out of need to do so without the Emerald's or just because he felt like he DIDN'T need them to begin with. Sonic did what needed to be done, and did it just as effectively as his time in Sonic Adventure. So there's more to this than meets the eye.

 

[Marionaruto1]

i would have to disagree with the whole multiple stars thing. In sonic unleashed eggman used the chaos emeralds to awaken dark gaia which meant separating continents on earth this act alone caused the chaos emeralds to get de-powered and become inactive needing to be recharged. so at most the chaos emeralds (by themselves) are planetary not star level.

 

[Davy0]

i would have to disagree with the whole multiple stars thing. In sonic unleashed eggman used the chaos emeralds to awaken dark gaia which meant separating continents on earth this act alone caused the chaos emeralds to get de-powered and become inactive needing to be recharged. so at most the chaos emeralds (by themselves) are planetary not star level.

How about you go and read my second post, Eggman had already used Chaos Control to split the planet before in Sonic Advance 3, which happened before Sonic Unleashed. Which means the core had already shown itself, though it didn't awaken Dark Gaia, however, this time Eggman used a special beam. The earth didn't split because of the beam, but because of Dark Gaia, as that was its power. So what I surmised was that it instead absorbed the Chaos Emerald's as Eggman had already known beforehand of the myth that Dark Gaia had, wishing to control it. Which was why he'd used that specific method. It absorbed the powers of the Chaos Emeralds otherwise it would not have lost its power.

 

[Marionaruto1]

well first off your assuming that dark gaia absorbed the chaos emeralds when actually he didn't.

(though it's only a theory from me, the reason that the Emerald's had lost their luster after causing the entire planet to crack open was because the actual energy was absorbed by Dark Gaia instead of just awakening it)

"Eggman figured out a way to awaken Dark Gaia from within the planet's core and constructed the Chaos Energy Cannon for this. Its function was to take the seven Chaos Emeralds and reverse their polarity, thereby creating a dark energy blast that would force Dark Gaia to awaken from its slumber" Sonic Unleashed instruction manual

in sonic advance 3 Dr. Eggman tears Earth apart using Chaos Control which separated and reshaped the world into several different regions

 

[Davy0]

OK then. So why, when he used the Chaos Emerald then, did it not lose power after performing such an enormously powerful Chaos Control over the entire world. Please, indulge me. Does that mean that one Chaos Emerald is capable of what 7 are, together?

And before you say it was the Master Emerald. The Chaos Emerald's have less "sharp cuts" compared to the Master Emerald . Though the Master Emerald is known for being capable of changing its size, so if it's a visual error, than I understand, but i don't think that's the case.

 

[Unclechairman]

I doubt you'll be able to find an explanation, because the Chaos Emeralds function as the series' go-to plot device. They're catered to the plot. One moment, they're being used to combat a being which can collapse existence itself, the next, they're exhausted after barely cracking open a planet. They lost their power after cracking open the planet and releasing Dark Gaia so to set up the plot where Sonic must restore each emerald at the Gaia Temples. I haven't played any of the Sonic Advance games, so I don't have details on the plot, but I' sure whatever was done using the power of the Chaos Emeralds was what was most convenient for the plot.

 

[Davy0]

That's possibly the truest statement. They were made for chasing Gemerl, who had flown outside of the Earth's Atmosphere into parts unknown. Whether that was at FTL or MFTL speeds, I don't know. Due to the background staying still.

 

[Godhand1999]

Can i contribute to the thread?

I believe Davy0 is right the Chaos Emeralds have shown star system busting based on the feat from Sonic Battle when Eggman used the Final Egg Blaster to blow up the nearest star system. However it depends on the energy that's being taken in...For example Solaris became multiversal with the Chaos Emeralds.

"Also, certain conversations from series like Sonic Rush, about the Sol Emerald's and the Chaos Emerald's possibly being capable of making both "worlds" explode when in direct vicinity of one another"-Davy0

Can you kindly give me some proof for this i would like too see some of these convo's.

 

[Davy0]

Can i contribute to the thread?
I believe Davy0 is right the Chaos Emeralds have shown star system busting based on the feat from Sonic Battle when Eggman used the Final Egg Blaster to blow up the nearest star system. However it depends on the energy that's being taken in...For example Solaris became multiversal with the Chaos Emeralds.

"Also, certain conversations from series like Sonic Rush, about the Sol Emerald's and the Chaos Emerald's possibly being capable of making both "worlds" explode when in direct vicinity of one another"-Davy0

Can you kindly give me some proof for this i would like too see some of these convo's.

It doesn't matter. Though I will say this, just like "equivalent exchange" matter can only be equally distributed. You can't take more from what is given, theirs always a topped amount that can be gained from something before it runs dry.

But that doesn't matter because it wasn't the Chaos Emerald's that were the energy source for the Final Egg Blaster to begin with. Though Emerl was the one who he created said Blaster for to begin with, showing that the Chaos Emerald's may have been superior to it, instead.

KK.

 

[Godhand1999]

Can i contribute to the thread?
I believe Davy0 is right the Chaos Emeralds have shown star system busting based on the feat from Sonic Battle when Eggman used the Final Egg Blaster to blow up the nearest star system. However it depends on the energy that's being taken in...For example Solaris became multiversal with the Chaos Emeralds.

"Also, certain conversations from series like Sonic Rush, about the Sol Emerald's and the Chaos Emerald's possibly being capable of making both "worlds" explode when in direct vicinity of one another"-Davy0

Can you kindly give me some proof for this i would like too see some of these convo's.

It doesn't matter. Though I will say this, just like "equivalent exchange" matter can only be equally distributed. You can't take more from what is given, theirs always a topped amount that can be gained from something before it runs dry.

So what level of power do you place the Chaos Emeralds in? Because Solaris was capable of becoming multiversal with them.

 

[Davy0]

They should be on par with what Emerl was supposedly. But there's no actual proof to that other than speculation as the Chaos Emerald's weren't directly used. And Sonic (who may be more powerful than we give him credit for) defeated him outside of his Super Form. Emerl has 4000 years of information under his belt. Actually, My other thread on Doctor Gerald's Journal Entries has more info on that. I'm also going to look for more crap on Brotherhood since I proved it was also canon.

 

[Godhand1999]

They should be on par with what Emerl was supposedly. But there's no actual proof to that other than speculation as the Chaos Emerald's weren't directly used. And Sonic (who may be more powerful than we give him credit for) defeated him outside of his Super Form. Emerl has 4000 years of information under his belt. Actually, My other thread on Doctor Gerald's Journal Entries has more info on that. I'm also going to look for more crap on Brotherhood since I proved it was also canon.

Damn your pretty good finally someone who can support Sonic on this page lol. The Chaos Emeralds were powering the Final Egg Blaster it's not really the Chaos Emeralds which have limits it's pretty much the machine and how much it can take in. The Chaos Emeralds have an infinite supply of power and can do almost anything according to Sonic Adventure.

Indeed i agree Sonic could be more powerful then we give credit for but so can Shadow and Sliver who also fought their own versions of Solaris in three different timelines. I also know that Emerl has more then 4000 years of information under his belt so it makes Base Sonic seem more impressive.

Brotherhood canon? How so? It was created by Bioware and plus it had some things taken from Archie.

 

[Davy0]

No it didn't. Emerl had the Emerald's inside of him, thus Eggman created a star busting machine in order to create a link with him. Which Gerald's Journal goes over.

Read through my post on Gerald's Journal and you will understand. Sonic Battle is canon, already proved that with Shadow the Hedgehog and the fact that Emerl's Data shows up in Sonic Advance 3 which is also canon. It has a lot more detailed information on Emerl as the Gizoid.

It specifically talks about the Fourth Great Civilization which is the Nocturnus Clan. The Nocturnus Clan is Shade's Clan. They talk extensively about Emerl within Dark Brotherhood, too which was the reason I've been researching it to begin with.

 

[Godhand1999]

No it didn't. Emerl had the Emerald's inside of him, thus Eggman created a star busting machine in order to create a link with him. Which Gerald's Journal goes over.
Read through my post on Gerald's Journal and you will understand. Sonic Battle is canon, already proved that with Shadow the Hedgehog and the fact that Emerl's Data shows up in Sonic Advance 3 which is also canon. It has a lot more detailed information on Emerl as the Gizoid.

It specifically talks about the Fourth Great Civilization which is the Nocturnus Clan. The Nocturnus Clan is Shade's Clan. They talk extensively about Emerl within Dark Brotherhood, too which was the reason I've been researching it to begin with.

OHHHHH!!! LOL I forgot lmfao. Emerl already had the emeralds in him *facepalm*. Then agian at the end of the game i believe he couldn't contain all that energy therefore he died at the end however Sonic needed to inflict enough damage on him to bring him back to normal.

Hmmmmm....I did skim through it however yeah you got a strong argument there.

So let's talk more about the Chaos Emeralds for a little bit eailer i said Solaris became multiversal with them and that the Chaos Emeralds have an infinite supply of power and can do almost anything according to Sonic Adventure. Also you brought up "certain conversations from series like Sonic Rush, about the Sol Emerald's and the Chaos Emerald's possibly being capable of making both "worlds" explode when in direct vicinity of one another, is also an interesting little thing to think about."

I would like too see some scans or videos of this statement it's interesting. Because i don't believe that the Emeralds are a planet level source.

 

[Davy0]

No it didn't. Emerl had the Emerald's inside of him, thus Eggman created a star busting machine in order to create a link with him. Which Gerald's Journal goes over.
Read through my post on Gerald's Journal and you will understand. Sonic Battle is canon, already proved that with Shadow the Hedgehog and the fact that Emerl's Data shows up in Sonic Advance 3 which is also canon. It has a lot more detailed information on Emerl as the Gizoid.

It specifically talks about the Fourth Great Civilization which is the Nocturnus Clan. The Nocturnus Clan is Shade's Clan. They talk extensively about Emerl within Dark Brotherhood, too which was the reason I've been researching it to begin with.

OHHHHH!!! LOL I forgot lmfao. Emerl already had the emeralds in him *facepalm*. Then agian at the end of the game i believe he couldn't contain all that energy therefore he died at the end however Sonic needed to inflict enough damage on him to bring him back to normal.
Hmmmmm....I did skim through it however yeah you got a strong argument there.

So let's talk more about the Chaos Emeralds for a little bit eailer i said Solaris became multiversal with them and that the Chaos Emeralds have an infinite supply of power and can do almost anything according to Sonic Adventure. Also you brought up "certain conversations from series like Sonic Rush, about the Sol Emerald's and the Chaos Emerald's possibly being capable of making both "worlds" explode when in direct vicinity of one another, is also an interesting little thing to think about."

I would like too see some scans or videos of this statement it's interesting. Because i don't believe that the Emeralds are a planet level source.

- That was probably more because Eggman had destroyed multiple solar systems, and the stars created such an explosion that it shook the foundation of the Death Egg .

- If you'd have read through the Gerald's Journal portion more extensively you'd have your answer on that. With a single Chaos Emerald, Emerl destroyed "most" of the Ark. A single Chaos Emerald allowed him to destroy most of a place that could be considered the size of a small country . Not only that, the Ark also had the power to destroy the world when it collected the seven Chaos Emeralds. We don't take "infinites" as a quantifiable statement here, only facts and feats.

Again, before you start asking those questions, read through the entirety of the journal section, I placed it there for a reason.

 

[Godhand1999]

No it didn't. Emerl had the Emerald's inside of him, thus Eggman created a star busting machine in order to create a link with him. Which Gerald's Journal goes over.
Read through my post on Gerald's Journal and you will understand. Sonic Battle is canon, already proved that with Shadow the Hedgehog and the fact that Emerl's Data shows up in Sonic Advance 3 which is also canon. It has a lot more detailed information on Emerl as the Gizoid.

It specifically talks about the Fourth Great Civilization which is the Nocturnus Clan. The Nocturnus Clan is Shade's Clan. They talk extensively about Emerl within Dark Brotherhood, too which was the reason I've been researching it to begin with.

OHHHHH!!! LOL I forgot lmfao. Emerl already had the emeralds in him *facepalm*. Then agian at the end of the game i believe he couldn't contain all that energy therefore he died at the end however Sonic needed to inflict enough damage on him to bring him back to normal.
Hmmmmm....I did skim through it however yeah you got a strong argument there.

So let's talk more about the Chaos Emeralds for a little bit eailer i said Solaris became multiversal with them and that the Chaos Emeralds have an infinite supply of power and can do almost anything according to Sonic Adventure. Also you brought up "certain conversations from series like Sonic Rush, about the Sol Emerald's and the Chaos Emerald's possibly being capable of making both "worlds" explode when in direct vicinity of one another, is also an interesting little thing to think about."

I would like too see some scans or videos of this statement it's interesting. Because i don't believe that the Emeralds are a planet level source.

- That was probably more because Eggman had destroyed multiple solar systems, and the stars created such an explosion that it shook the foundation of the Death Egg .
- If you'd have read through the Gerald's Journal portion more extensively you'd have your answer on that. With a single Chaos Emerald, Emerl destroyed "most" of the Ark. A single Chaos Emerald allowed him to destroy most of a place that could be considered the size of a small country . Not only that, the Ark also had the power to destroy the world when it collected the seven Chaos Emeralds. We don't take "infinites" as a quantifiable statement here, only facts and feats.

Again, before you start asking those questions, read through the entirety of the journal section, I placed it there for a reason.

I see...The journal entry is a nice addition when i played Sonic Battle i skipped over those journals however i think now they connect to the Sonic Chronicles. Heh...Interesting.

So i have to ask do you plan on doing some sort of respect thread for Game Sonic?

 

[Davy0]

I'll let anyone who wants to do that, do that, all I'm doing is finding the information that connects it, nothing more.

 

[Godhand1999]

I'll let anyone who wants to do that, do that, all I'm doing is finding the information that connects it, nothing more.

Okay then

 

[Unclechairman]

Also you brought up "certain conversations from series like Sonic Rush, about the Sol Emerald's and the Chaos Emerald's possibly being capable of making both "worlds" explode when in direct vicinity of one another, is also an interesting little thing to think about."

I would like too see some scans or videos of this statement it's interesting.
[1] (Skip to 3:27)

[2] (0:33)

These ought to do. There might be more, but I'd have to dig for them, and I am not willing to do so at the moment.

 

[Godhand1999]

Also you brought up "certain conversations from series like Sonic Rush, about the Sol Emerald's and the Chaos Emerald's possibly being capable of making both "worlds" explode when in direct vicinity of one another, is also an interesting little thing to think about."

I would like too see some scans or videos of this statement it's interesting.

[1] (Skip to 3:27)
[2] (0:33)

These ought to do. There might be more, but I'd have to dig for them, and I am not willing to do so at the moment.

Thanks

 

[Unclechairman]

You're welcome.

 

[Ultimatesonic91]

Actually Sonic is Strong

In Sonic Adventure, Super Sonic had to deal in 6 hits just to defeat Perfect Chaos

In Sonic Generations, Base Sonic had to deal in 4 hits just to defeat Perfect Chaos

Base Sonic is strong dude