- 15,442
- 15,410
Ok, we've established the visuals are inconsistent, so why would we use them over the statements?
Makes zero sense if we agree the visuals are wrong
Makes zero sense if we agree the visuals are wrong
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
The visuals are consistently against the 1000+ kilometer diameter for the Seirietei. Issues like Ichigo and company entering the Soul society from above, Yhwach being mistaken for outside the dome, and the cloud height are all a part of that too.Ok, we've established the visuals are inconsistent, so why would we use them over the statements?
Makes zero sense if we agree the visuals are wrong
You’re circling back to the beginning, this has been addressed and debunked. Stop repeating yourself this was shut down 3-4 months ago.The visuals are consistently against the 1000+ kilometer diameter for the Seirietei. Issues like Ichigo and company entering the Soul society from above, Yhwach being mistaken for outside the dome, and the cloud height are all a part of that too.
Sounds like the visuals are inconsistent with everything being said about the Seireitei yes, therefore we shouldn't use the visualsThe visuals are consistently against the 1000+ kilometer diameter for the Seirietei. Issues like Ichigo and company entering the Soul society from above, Yhwach being mistaken for outside the dome, and the cloud height are all a part of that too.
I'm posting my core argument, yes, because I think it still stands. So far a few other staff members have agreed with those core arguments.You’re circling back to the beginning, this has been addressed and debunked. Stop repeating yourself this was shut down 3-4 months ago.
Yeah except they’ve all been debunked over and over and over again. Of the people still actively participating more disagree with you, just like last time.I'm posting my core argument, yes, because I think it still stands. So far a few other staff members have agreed with those core arguments.
This thread isn't the same as the one three months ago.
^^^^^^^^^^^^Sounds like the visuals are inconsistent with everything being said about the Seireitei yes, therefore we shouldn't use the visuals
I did the same shit with the Clover Kingdom Capitol
Consistent statements > inconsistent visuals, ITS HOW WE OPERATE
It’s not an opinion it’s quite literally what we do.You entitled to your opinion on it. Making it bold and capslock isn't going to make me agree more. Personally I don't think that the statements are as consistent as you claim, or that the visuals are impossible to use.
Let's see if any other staff members comment.
Oh, that's a good one that largely supports my point. 2404 Japanese Town size Districts.Considering the author is Japanese and based his setting of Soul Society off of Japan, it is highly likely they’re similar to Japanese districts. Nothing implies otherwise.
Districts are also described as their own individual towns, supporting IMade’s claim, and justifying the size statements even more than the highly inconsistent visuals.
What? That's the exact opposite of how the atmosphere works. The higher you go the thinner the atmosphere not the thicker.Additionally, when Renji and Rukia go up to Reiokyu they comment on how it's harder to breath up in Reiokyu due to the reishi density increasing as they go up. If SS's atmosphere was like earth, it would've been immensely crushed by 48000 km worth of higher density air after 1.5+ hours of exposure. But it didn't have any issues at all, so there goes the cloud point. This is undeniable proof that SS's atmosphere must be comparable or the planet would be uninhabitable.
I think this mostly comes down to if you think that visual depictions outweigh statements in regards to evidence.
Honestly after reading through both your and Imade's comment I'm not seeing it as a logical inconsistency but a case of visuals not matching up with a statement. Things like Yhwach being spotted by superhumans isn't wild in my view, but the visuals just don't align with what is stated. Either the Seireitei is small or Kubo cannot be trusted to accurately draw what he is attempting to depict. If its the former (which I don't think it is) we need to adjust stuff and if its the latter then I personally don't think we should use any calc that gets a result from the Seireitei's size outside of given distances or timeframes.There are logical consistency problems with it too as mentioned in the OP.
As far as I am aware the calcs used for stuff like sereitei etc. Are used going by the statements and not by pixel scaling due to the all contradictionsHonestly after reading through both your and Imade's comment I'm not seeing it as a logical inconsistency but a case of visuals not matching up with a statement. Things like Yhwach being spotted by superhumans isn't wild in my view, but the visuals just don't align with what is stated. Either the Seireitei is small or Kubo cannot be trusted to accurately draw what he is attempting to depict. If its the former (which I don't think it is) we need to adjust stuff and if its the latter then I personally don't think we should use any calc that gets a result from the Seireitei's size outside of given distances or timeframes.
Things like Yhwach being spotted by superhumans isn't wild in my view, but the visuals just don't align with what is stated.
We currently don’t use any calcs that involve pixel scaling Seireitei. The reasoning behind the current Gremmy calc being accepted is precisely because it doesn’t involve pixel scaling Seireitei to find the meteorSo in the end I think the statements for the Seireitei's size is usable. But if we're going with that then I personally think we shouldn't use any sort of pixel scaling calc that comes from the Seireitei, since that would just be a double-think sort of view imo.
Fiction =/= real life. Which is why using the real life cloud argument is stupid for a fiction planets atmosphere that seemingly ignores irl atmospheric physics.What? That's the exact opposite of how the atmosphere works. The higher you go the thinner the atmosphere not the thicker.
In the movie FtB that Kubo was heavily involved in they do mention a size statement that perfectly supports Yoruichi’s.It throws me off how this statement for the distance between the gates came up once and was then never referred to again or confirmed by any other character or shot of the Seireitei.
We currently don’t use any calcs that involve pixel scaling Seireitei. The reasoning behind the current Gremmy calc being accepted is precisely because it doesn’t involve pixel scaling Seireitei to find the meteor
If it was just the one statement I would agree that a throw away line wouldn't be evidence. But its not the one statement. Like the AgK capital we have multiple statements and backup novels that support that its incredibly large. 1,000 kilometers is a bit iffer imo but its also not outright contradicted in my view if you ignore visuals that we're already ignoring at the moment.It throws me off how this statement for the distance between the gates came up once and was then never referred to again or confirmed by any other character or shot of the Seireitei.
Wouldn't Las Noches also fall under this purview or are we only declaring the Seireitei inconsistent?We currently don’t use any calcs that involve pixel scaling Seireitei. The reasoning behind the current Gremmy calc being accepted is precisely because it doesn’t involve pixel scaling Seireitei to find the meteor
But.... you're the one who brought that up. I wasn't debating the atmosphere point, I was saying that your examples works the exact opposite of how it actually works IRL.Which is why using the real life cloud argument is stupid for a fiction planets atmosphere that seemingly ignores irl atmospheric physics.
We tried using a meteor impact formula that didn’t rely on visuals at all but you didn’t like that. I’m more than happy to use the impact formula as it doesn’t rely on any visuals at all.It's still hypocritical. You're arguing that Kubo can draw the Seireitei the completely wrong size nearly a dozen times and not at all how he actually intends the size of the Seireitei to be, but when it comes to the size of the meteor, he's accurately drawing the size of the meteor as it would be if it was 500+ kilometers away and the meteor is proportioned exactly how he intends the size of it to be.
If I pull up an image comparing the size of the meteor to the size of the Silbern, which we know the size of, to disprove that calculation, you will turn around and say "visuals don't count, Kubo obviously didn't draw the Silbern to be the size he intended it to be."
We tried using a meteor impact formula that didn’t rely on visuals at all but you didn’t like that. I’m more than happy to use the impact formula as it doesn’t rely on any visuals at all.
We don’t have a stated size for the Silbern but we do for Seireitei. Stated Seireitei size > assumed pixel scale of Silbern (which can vary depending on methods).
As far as I am aware Las noches is also treated like sereitei, by statements only, because like sereitei the size is very inconsistentWouldn't Las Noches also fall under this purview or are we only declaring the Seireitei inconsistent?
If we do then this needs to be alteredby statements only, because like sereitei the size is very inconsistent
My intention was just to point out that the cloud point is very weak at best. I’m not trying to find the specifics of Soul Society’s wacky atmosphere. I apologize for any confusion.But.... you're the one who brought that up. I wasn't debating the atmosphere point, I was saying that your examples works the exact opposite of how it actually works IR
I’d answer this more in depth but I don’t wanna derail atm.Wouldn't Las Noches also fall under this purview or are we only declaring the Seireitei inconsistent?
Precisely you complain about every method, to the point where you end up saying “let’s just not have a calc for it”. You accepted a ground level explosion formula over a meteor impact formula for a meteor. Why because one had a lower value, when the value is low you don’t care, but now that Gremmy got a high rating youre in a frenzy.The flaws of the meteor impact formula for this case are a different topic and I pointed out the issues with that.
You’re blatantly ignoring shit now. Kubo himself said he worked on the setting of Fade to Black, Kubo himself said the movie was the best work he could produce, in that movie the setting, or Seireitei, is stated to be utterly massive. Don’t pretend we don’t have a stated size.You don't have a stated size for the Seireitei in the manga. You have a calculated size which uses more assumptions than pixelscaling the Silbern.
pixel scaling silbern is a bad option. It gets like 9 km for the seiretei at best if you use these shots:The flaws of the meteor impact formula for this case are a different topic and I pointed out the issues with that.
You don't have a stated size for the Seireitei in the manga. You have a calculated size which uses more assumptions than pixelscaling the Silbern.
I agree completely with Qaws here, especially the bolded.Either the Seireitei is small or Kubo cannot be trusted to accurately draw what he is attempting to depict. If its the former (which I don't think it is) we need to adjust stuff and if its the latter then I personally don't think we should use any calc that gets a result from the Seireitei's size outside of given distances or timeframes.
Ok if I may be frank I'm getting sick and tired of this being danced around
Damage for the last time will you please respond to my post regarding the film
Using the film would follow your exact initial approach to wanting to wait for the anime for certain things which is also non Canon, and using the non canonical Naruto anime for time frames for scenes from the manga that were too vague
If you do not respond to this I will consider that there is no counter to it.
And it's previously brought up the argument for the cloud is nonsensical considering that we already have an established a verse that does the exact same thing that being Metroid, and Akame ga kill.
I'm just asking can we stop dancing around and that there be no double standards in how we treat things with this across the board
Going for a purely statements only approach like this because you cannot trust anything Kubo gas drawn, and then turning around and using his visuals when it suits you is something I can't accept. I don't see how you can't see that claiming Kubo can never draw the Seireitei the intended size makes sense because that's not how Kubo works as an artist, but he totally can draw the meteor the correct size extrapolated from Yoruichi's statement, doesn't make sense.
Glossing over the logical issue of clouds being above the dome of Seireitei by saying "Other verses have weird things too" or "Physics don't apply to Soul Society, clouds can be whatever height" just makes any kind of logical argument against your calculations to be impossible.
From the novel you get at least 100 km, from Yoruichi you get 1000 km, from the movie you get 2200 km, and you tell me all of the statements are entirely consistent with each other?
I can agree to put the topic on hold and postpone this thread until we get some additional information.damage, to repeat something you have said in the past.
I highly recommend that if you feel the calc we use is inconsistent, wait for the anime for the visuals given in it for the seireitei size. The manga is far to unreliable in that regard.
This would save everyone time in the aspect that we dont reopen this exact premise again every 2/3 months. If i can wait for the anime for a timeframe for the wandenreich lift, this shouldnt be an issue. Its a solid solution in my opinion