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Negación

Well, I agree about the photons point, but what about that it allegedly only fulfills one requirement/criteria?
 
It is a beam of light that moves in a straight line and it is not tangible. Which more criteria is necessary? We can't expect every author making the light reflecting using mirrors or something like. As I said, it demands absurds things from the author
 
I suppose that is a fair point, but I would prefer more staff input. You should ask Soldier Blue and DontTalkDT to comment here.
 
Well, that is because he took a break due to real world responsibilities. He seems to be back now.
 
So you quote a 2017 thread where they argued the whole time about Lille and decided it was somehow holy light because Yhwach is based off of god and LIlle like an angel? There was almost no discussion in that thread about Negación at all but one comment.
 
Mephistus said:
Negacion shouldn't be treated like natural light, like from the sun.

Natural light doesn't put the stuff it envelops into another spatial dimension and lift rocks and people upward against gravity.

Having those unnatural properties discredit equating it to real life light just as much as if it were deforming/bending for no reason lol.
Click to expand...
^ This is a good point.

Damage3245 said:
There is also this panel for Negacion. That kind of distortion coming from the source makes it look a lot more like some energy beam that actual light.
Click to expand...
^ The base of the beam here is definitely weird. That's not normal light beam behaviour.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Caja Negacion is not Negacion. It's literally a man made tool used to simulate what Negacion can do not what Negacion is.
Click to expand...
^ This is true. Caja Nagacion and Negacion are two different things.

But it does not change the fact that they are related. At the end of the day, both are Spatial Manipulation abilities, not light-based.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Hollows can make cracks in space, as explained above that's what happend there.
Click to expand...
The distortion from the portal doesn't appear to be connected to the Negacion at all.

The Hollow's hand is also in the crack in space, but it isn't deformed / distorted at all.
 
Why would the hollows hand be distorted? They move between dimensions and etc as seen in chapter 1-10. That's a single panel that's easily explained away. So I don't see why you keep trying to use it as hard proof against it.
 
@Soldier Blue

Well for starters none of them are spatial manipulation as none of them manipulate space in any way.

They're not related in any way outside of it being able to send you to another dimension. It's a man made tool made exactly for that purpose as explained in the scan.

Of course Caja Negación is not a light based ability, nothing supports it or implies it at all. Negación is a light based ability as stated by senior captain commander Yama.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Negación is a light based ability as stated by senior captain commander Yama.
Click to expand...
Yama-jii does not explicitly describe the Negacion as a light-based ability. He merely says that whatever is inside the barrier of light is beyond their reach and impossible to interact with. He does not explicitly described it as a light-based ability.

All of the explanations for Negacion and Caja Negacion make it abundantly clear that they are spatial fuckery.

Trapping a certain object in a separate dimension/space where those outside cannot interact with it - What else can you call this other than spatial manipulation?

Also,

https://imgur.com/a/ZAlSAcO

^ Does someone have the raw of this? You can ask IMade to translate.
 
1. I don't understand this 1st point , it's a beam of light as explained in the data book and manga. What is a "light based ability" suppose to look like considering it's all fiction. By definition it indeed is a light based ability with some special added effects.

2.no it doesn't, it makes it clear that it isolate those inside it as if they're in a separate dimension but we don't actually know why or what happens if someone outside tries to enter. This isn't spatial manipulation based off what I read under the page for that ability. Caja Negación is some weird folding tool that traps you in an unknown area depending on your strength.

3.You call that BFR especially since that is it's purpose.
 
1. A beam of light that isolates those enveloped inside of it in a separate dimension. And, just to clarify once again - it being stated to be a beam of light in-universe does not make it a light-based ability. That is literally the only thing Negacion has going for it in this regard.

2. How is it not spatial manipulation? And, yes, Grimmjow says the Caja Negacion traps a target in a separate dimension. I went and read chapter 278 just now to confirm.

3. BFR via some sort of spatial fuckery.
 
It seems like Soldier Blue and Damage3245 have this situation under control, so I will unsubscribe to the thread.

You can message me later if you need my help.
 
1.Well clearly it can't refract off of plain dirt thankfully. It has more going for it being light speed in deployment since it doesn't go against any of the criteria in the page as opposed to it being not.

2/3. Even assuming it's similar to Spatial Manipulation in terms of effects once it's deployed, how does that debunk the proposed speed of it? the arguments so far is "I don't think it is". So here we have maybe it is and maybe it isn't.
 
> 1.Well clearly it can't refract off of plain dirt thankfully. It has more going for it being light speed in deployment since it doesn't go against any of the criteria in the page as opposed to it being not.

It fulfills only one requirement:

  • It is stated to be made of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source
And the spatial distortion causing the Negacion to appear so warped at the source is only a possible explanation, not a fact.
 
You literally see the the beam fire off perfectly before that scan, then you see a hollows hand tearing open the space in that area which then causes a distortion. It's quite obvious it's the hollows. There was no distortions at any of the other points of entry.
 
> There was no distortions at any of the other points of entry.

Or it is the only case of distortion because it is the only case where we actually see the Negacion emanating from the Hollow's hand.
 
You're just saying the opposite of what I am with a maybe, but posting nothing to support your view at all.

"Emanating" Are you saying Negación comes from their hands?
 
Soldier Blue said:
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Caja Negacion is not Negacion. It's literally a man made tool used to simulate what Negacion can do not what Negacion is.
Click to expand...
^ This is true. Caja Nagacion and Negacion are two different things.
But it does not change the fact that they are related. At the end of the day, both are Spatial Manipulation abilities, not light-based.
Click to expand...
Caja Negacion and Negacion are not related, this misconception needs to stop. You're solely basing this off the names when neither the databooks nor manga support this.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
You're just saying the opposite of what I am with a maybe, but posting nothing to support your view at all.
"Emanating" Are you saying Negación comes from their hands?
Click to expand...
Not sure where else it would come from. This panel definitely suggests to me that it is coming from the Menos' hand.

And I don't see how the portal the Menos is opening is causing the distortion effect. It just looks like the Negacion itself.
 
That's ridiculous, that doesn't suggest it's coming from their hands at all. All that scan shows is the menos pulling the space apart displaying a horde and that large creature who's name I forgot that summons even more menos.
 
Yes, until then it fulfills a requirement, which is important:

  • It is stated to be made of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source
We have even more evidence:

  • Is intangible and cannot be physically interacted
  • Always moving straight
It only distorted in a single panel and it is precisely where Menoss is distorting space, otherwise it is consistently shown in a straight line.
Auswahlen was not accepted just because of these inconsistencies, and unlike Auswahlen, the Negación is very consistent.
 
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the guidelines on Laser / Light Beams, but it says:

  • Please note that the opposite of these criteria do not prove a beam is at lightspeed, merely that it could be, should it meet the first list of criteria.
So all you've done is shown that it could be possible with the additional evidence, if it meets at minimum a few of the main requirements.

The 'Always Moving Straight' one is disputable; the space being distorted by a portal opening is noy the only reason why it would be like that. It could also be because that's the closest we see to the source of the Negacion.

Either way, there's still only one requirement being met. More staff input is needed, it seems.
 
The portals Menos use distort space, like here where the Menos distorts space in such a way he uses it as a curtain: https://**********.com/manga/Bleach/0050-003.png
 
Ovy7 said:
The portals Menos use distort space, like here where the Menos distorts space in such a way he uses it as a curtain: https://**********.com/manga/Bleach/0050-003.png
Click to expand...
Yes, but the effect looks pretty different to what is happening to the Negacion.
 
As mentioned, this does not prove, but it is a support, besides that it meets one of the requested requirements. It is not as if just the quotation of being light is enough, but it also has deeds that do not contradict being real light, but ONE panel, which is just what you are forcing.
There are several panels where it is shown to move in a straight line, against a single panel that is shown to be distorted, I don't even need to talk about consistencies.
 
Yes, the only scan where the Negación is deformed is precisely where the space is being distorted, ONE.
 
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