Nee-Chan Chuunibyou revisions

[PhantomØ4]

“concession accepted, at least on the quantum point”.

I don’t have free time right now to type out a whole counter argument but man do you even understand what an analogy is?

“ I mean why is this referring to quantum mechanics?”

Can’t even dismiss it as a false analogy, you take it at face value lmao.

There’s also the fact that I’m confused whether going back and forth with you is worth it, we have like 8 people I favor and one against and the debate is going in circles.

 

[00potato]

Number of votes was never how we did things.

Especially when many of them were given before any counter and the rest were still done before the final points were made.

Also the analogy point is ultimately minor and doesn’t effect the quality of my arguments, so hyper focusing on that is just a way to waste time.

 

[Gemstic]

Your first paragraph is practically a concession as you admit that it could be considered the world itself, so they can be used interchangeably.

First of all, I'd like to make it clear that it was definitely not a concession. The first paragraph was meant to show the hierarchal superiority of the 'heavenly record' over the world/universe it contains, and I was also clarifying why a heavenly record could be referred to as a world itself. Of course, I agree that 'world' can be used interchangeably, but a 'heavenly record' is essentially a 4D structure as it not only contains the universe but also its different timelines. I hope you're not trying to imply that someone can affect such a structure with just 3D abilities. Do not forget that a heavenly record is a conceptual vessel that accommodates the numerous things that form a physical universe as well as the timelines derived from it.

Especially since the “administrative rights thing.” Like everything else here, is unsourced.

As for the 'unsourced' thing you mentioned, there's a reason why I specifically mentioned 'to put it another way' in the very beginning of my reply. It was all just to make it easier for you realize why affecting a heavenly record would require a 4D ability. You can't affect a conceptual thing that contains the entirety of a reality with just 3D abilities. Simple as that.

Third paragraph, I mean plenty of doubt exists, so that’s blatant lie.

And no, there was nothing false about it, so don't be so quick to deny what others say. If Yuichi is able to affect a heavenly record with any of his abilities, how could it not be 4D in nature when that is literally equivalent to manipulating something that is the foundation of all concepts of a space-time continuum? Again, a heavenly record is a conceptual entity, so you need to correct the way you perceive it in order to make a sound judgement.

Your main argument seems to be, "Warping the universe/Heavenly Record isn’t inherently 4-D because they're called a world," but do you know that even a multiverse is referred to as a 'world' in this verse? Are you trying to say "warping the multiverse isn't inherently 4-D because it's called a world?" I mean, even a 1-A structure would be called a 'world' in this verse because the author use it as an umbrella term for basically everything, so let's pay more attention to the actual context instead of unnecessarily focusing on a particular word just for the sake of argument.

I'd also like to address one of your previous statements:

Manipulating the universe on any level would still be manipulating the Heavenly Record as it is based in the universes data.

This is totally incorrect, as it's actually the universe's that is based on its Heavenly Record, as shown by Muhsula's reply (which you agreed to as well). Furthermore, even a god (at least Low 2-C) could only make a very partial change to the system of a Heavenly Record, so it's obviously impossible for someone with just 3D abilities to be able to manipulate it. Hence, manipulating the universe on any level would definitely not be equivalent to manipulating the Heavenly Record in any way. Besides, a Universe is a physical entity, while a Heavenly Record is conceptual in nature, and your claim (that is, universe/world = heavenly record, because they can be used interchangeably) would directly imply that anyone that can affect the universe on any level would automatically get conceptual manipulation.

Do you see how wrong your understanding of a Heavenly Record is? Hope all this explanation helps in breaking your misconception.

 

[00potato]

Ok big wall, lemme debunk paragraph by paragraph.

1 All universes with time are 4-D yet not every instance of universe warping is automatically 4-D unless you provedly warp time-space. since HRs and the universe are used interchangeably (you admit it.), they are held to this logic.

2 “I was just trying to put it another way.” No, you were definitely making a claim “worldview holders are like admins.” Yet no evidence shown, even before in the thread, so nothing exists for you to re-word.

3 Already explained multiple times why effecting the heavenly record isn’t inherently 4-D and needs more proof. Not repeating myself again for you, if any of you say this or a version of this again, that is getting ignored unless you at least try to debunk it.

4 I clearly mean world as in universe bub, that should be obvious, as HR are mostly based on singular universes. This is “well it could be this instead.” With no proof.

5 This isn’t what Mushula’s scan says. It says
1 It is called the Foundation
2 It is interchangeable with the universe.
3 it is a vessel and the world is on top of it.
4 The record is conceptual.
It says nothing about the universe being purely based on the record, or that changing the universe involves the record.
Scan needed on the god being unable to change it.
You are suggesting the “everyone gets conceptual manipulation.” With the train of logic and evidence presented, I was just bringing it to its natural conclusion. By admitting that, you kinda show how ridiculous this all is.

Do you see how wrong your understanding of what I’m saying is? Hope this rebuttal can help in breaking your misconceptions.

 

[PhantomØ4]

I wasn't hyper focusing but the demeanor of your wording is admittedly irritating due to things such as the connotation of "concession accepted", specially when I literally just moved on because you never even tackled the second analogy or proved them as false analogies. Anyways, I just wanna know how a conclusion can be reached, stonewalling by having more stamina to debate shouldn't be thing and I doubt most threads can reach 100% approval rate.

1. Ok, so if Record contains all the info, logically at change in that info would change the record. Basic logic tells me that and your previous statements. Also it’s called the Record, records imply an archiving of something else rather then the other way around.

Conjecture, conjecture and more conjecture. Show me the record changing via the world changing the case this all head canon. Contradicted by it being a conceptual vessel of the world and the description of it being that it has the things that make up the world, not the state of the world or anything of the sort.

2.Anyway, if the only way things could effect... .... ...

As you would put it, strawman. Never said this, therefore could not care less.

3. Your scan gives more credence to my claim that they can be used interchangeably, since it agin is called the world itself, and all that shows is that the world is on top of the record

False. You have yet to explain to me how this interpretation of them being the literal world itself does not fall apart with the sword being unable to affect beings in the universe in certain ways due to not being in the record. Funny how that sentence implies the world is on top of itself.

So coming to your TL;DR then

"1 It is called the Foundation
2 It is interchangeable with the universe.
3 it is a vessel and the world is on top of it.
4 The record is conceptual.
It says nothing about the universe being purely based on the record, or that changing the universe involves the record."

1. The foundation of something and the thing itself are different things, just harms your interpretation.
2. Not interchangeable, similar to the concept of an object easily being capable of being called the object itself for all intent and purposes, unless you give me an example of why this is erroneous? If used interchangeably (because they would be the exact same thing) it would result in something like;

"To talk about such a thing, an explanation of the world is necessary.
In simple terms, the world is the vessel for the world, and could be considered the world in and of itself. On top of the world are placed the numerous things making up that world"


3. A conceptual vessel, yes.
4. Because that is not the case, obviously universe can take place without altering the foundation for it, however, if we can't even get past you saying the records are not a higher dimensional object that is not simply a space-time construct then I won't bother with this until then, not a concession but positioning because time efficiency.

 

[Gemstic]

Let me expose your intention of 'debunking facts based on false equivalency and deliberate ignorance':

1) True, all universes are 4-D and not every instance of universe warping is automatically 4-D, but a Heavenly Record is the very foundation of everything that constitutes a universe, so warping it would automatically makes the ability 4-D. Warping the source of everything is naturally completely different than warping something without a defined source. Do you not even get something so basic? Why are you trying so hard to treat a HR the same as a standard universe when their structure is clearly different? And yes, I admitted that they could be used interchangeably, but just like calling your country your 'home' doesn't downgrade everything about it to a literal 'home,' calling a HR 'world/universe' doesn't make it the same as a standard universe. Seriously, do I really have to teach you such things to make you realize your mistake? Moreover, like I mentioned before, even a multiverse is referred to as a 'world' in this verse, so it couldn't be any more obvious that calling a HR 'world' doesn't lower its existential superiority to a standard universe. In any case, this debunks your argument that a HR is nothing more than a universe just because it is also called a 'world.'

Also adding a scan to thoroughly debunk your claim: Difference between a Universe and a Heavenly Record
It is very clear that a universe and a heavenly record are not the same thing, and thus there's no reason or way to treat them as such.

2) Looks like someone does not understand the concept of analogy, so I won't even bother with this.

3) The undeniable fact that a Heavenly Record contains multiple timelines is enough of a proof to show that no 3-D ability can affect it. Your argument is totally debunked.

4) And do you have any proof that HRs are mostly based on singular universes when we have clearly seen the one we know about having multiple timelines? The burden of proof falls on you in this case because there's nothing that indicates that a HR is inherently a singular universe when we have been shown otherwise. Once again, your argument is debunked, so I'd like you to stop making false claims.

5) 1. Yes, and did you even try to understand what kind of 'foundation' it is?
2. Already addressed this point above.
3. Yes, and how does a vessel function? By 'containing' something within itself.
4. It's officially called the Celestial Foundation, and that's what is conceptual in nature, not just some 'record.'

The scan you asked for, to prove that even a god is only able to very partially affect the system of a Heavenly Record (world/universe): No.1 and No.2

And no, it's not me who's suggesting that "everyone gets conceptual manipulation." Do not make such false statements. It is none other than you who is repeatedly saying that "manipulating the universe on any level would still be manipulating the Heavenly Record." We have already made it clear that a Heavenly Record (Celestial Foundation) is conceptual in nature, so it's your own false equivalency that suggests they should get conceptual manipulation just by affecting the universe on any level.

If you still don't want to admit to your mistakes and continue to mention the same things after all this, it'd be safe to assume that you're here just to delay the progress on the revision.

 

[00potato]

Aight will get back to This in a few days since I am less busy.