Nee-Chan Chuunibyou revisions

[PhantomØ4]

Well, this goes for view holders in general but the way worldviews work which is already in the profiles is that the user changes the "base" upon which the world is viewed. There isn't further info on it in the series itself that matters but Instant death expanded the cosmology by introducing heavenly records which surprise surprise are those vessels that the observers change according to their story. These two quotes put it together pretty well.

"In other words, the Heavenly Records become the foundation of the world recognized by the main observer of the world."

" “Worldview” referred to the laws governing a given world.
While there were billions of worlds out there, they were fundamentally the same in most regards, which was why they could all come together to make a single, consistent world, despite minor differences."

Furthermore, a heavenly record seems to contain multiple timelines as it is the case with time-hopping from Rainer and Rick's brother. This would significantly affect the interpretation of Yuichi's worldview only being planetary and rather settle it as a 4D ability, outers would also be affected in a similar manner as they are a meta-level above the scrip/the world because they recognized their nature as worldview holders. Possible conceptual manipulation would be attached to the fact that heavenly records are changed by worldview holders.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Oh Phantom, welcome back.

This makes sense to me.

 

[PhantomØ4]

'ello, thanks.

 

[YungManzi]

agree

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

If Heavenly Records are changed according to their worldview holders stories, then Ryoma Takei is changing the records to be the universal protag?

Hence why he can enter any worldview, and the world would grant him Protagonist status, as such things would ultimately always work out in his favor. Not to mention he can manipulate the world/plot itself with his cards, that's broken.

And even with all that he got low diff by Yuichi whose worldview fuses with others and in his own he can't lose cause there is always a chance for him to win. He is suppose to be humanity's guardian and he no diff the universal protag, so his worldview encompasses all worldviews and there are billions of them, that's very broken.

Are we sure Yuichi wasn't been made into humanity's guardian by his sister to fight Yogiri lol, this man is broken.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Pretty much, yeah, the vessel of the universe is changed so that Ryoma is recognized as the protagonist for the script of the world which is a thing that exists rather than just individual worldview being stories. A worldview is just sub-plot to the overall script from what I understood, that's how there can be multiple protagonists with their separate stories when Aoi uses her meta-perspective to see the script.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good

 

[00potato]

Uhh
Scan?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

The quotes are in the OP

Btw, I agree

 

[00potato]

Yeah but where is it in the actual story, you could write anything in that box and just add quotation marks.
You should show something from the book directly.

And I don’t see any for the Heavenly Record stuff.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

First quote is Vol 3 Chapter 3 of ID

Second quote is Vol 4 Chapter 1 of Nee-Chan and straight on Yuichi's profile

 

[00potato]

Could you show it, It ain’t like I have the book on me to cross reference, it ain’t the Bible.

Same issue as in the main thread, you haven’t even show anything from the book, just a quote attributed to it.

 

[00potato]

Also the evidence for 4-D makes no sense.
It seems to suggest that Heavenly Records are observed (nothing directly stated but I kinda get it.)

But that doesn’t prove that most of what he does is 4-D, or that the majority of his powers function on a 4-D level.

Also the timeline stuff seems unfounded by the already poorly sourced quotes.

 

[PhantomØ4]

everything here it’s already accepted on their profiles besides the fact that the verse cross scale to each other as they share a cosmology now. Didn’t really think f it to be necessary to get everything.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

 

[00potato]

I mean when something this major is occurring, it shouldn’t be accepted without direct sourcing too.

Even then I don’t see any direct connection between the instant death quote and the world view in Chuunibyo, it is only hinting at it in this case.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Also the evidence for 4-D makes no sense.
It seems to suggest that Heavenly Records are observed (nothing directly stated but I kinda get it.)

But that doesn’t prove that most of what he does is 4-D, or that the majority of his powers function on a 4-D level.

Also the timeline stuff seems unfounded by the already poorly sourced quotes.

Heavenly Records are universes

 

[00potato]

I mean that doesn’t really prove 4-D, just that he can change things on a universal/ possibly conceptual level, I can kinda get that since it uses the word (assuming the translation is good, not sure of how valid that one is.)

And again no direct connection to Chunibyo’s Worldviews.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

If he changes a space-time continuum, then its a 4-D feat though

 

[PhantomØ4]

Changing a 4-D universal structure is quite literally 4-D. The heavenly records a contain all of the space-time of the universe, thus The heavenly record eater being one with space-time

 

[00potato]

It never says that though.
It just says that the Record is the universe, and that doesn’t inheritly mean he is changing space-time, especially since this is just vauge reality warping.

Also the Record Eater is its own thing, this has no reason to scale to the rest.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Changing the records would automatically change a 4-D structure, the records themselves are 4-D by being higher-order structures that exist outside of space-time.

HRE just used as an example of the fact that records > space-time instead of defeating it to 3-A

 

[00potato]

Scan?
The ones presented just show it as the vessel of the universe, not a 4-D structure by itself.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Heavenly Records are a vessel and the universe

The Heavenly Record Eater. Its main body is so large that it can swallow an entire heavenly record (the universe).

 

[00potato]

Yeah, any evidence that “universe.” in this case includes the 4th dimension?

3-A exists for a reason.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Each heavenly record have their own timeline, as seen when Darian split said timeline into two when he travelled to the past

 

[00potato]

Scan?

 

[PhantomØ4]

“For an existence like the Heavenly Record eater, space-time was a part of itself. The surrounding space and time were within the range that it could be controlled with its own will”

 

[00potato]

That is the Eater not the records itself, also again show it from the actual book. A 4-D being eating something doesn’t make a different ability like this 4-D.

I still see no proof that the records are above space time, or that manipulation is inherently 4-D. Since it is just the universe itself, and any amount of reality warping can be “bending the universe.” Without being 4-D.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

The quote is referring to the space-times around the HRE, which are the heavenly records (since thats what the HRE manipulates and eats it)

 

[00potato]

Yeah, just applicable to the eater.
All that proves is that it eats time like a starving sonic villain. I never said space-time doesn’t exist.

Doesn’t prove that this is 4-D or that this directly refers to Chunibyo.

 

[PhantomØ4]

It makes no sense for the records to be 3-A, that’s just the universe itself. The records contain the universe which inherently means that they exist outside of it. The heavenly record is one with space-time as it eats these things and makes them one with itself, all this is already on the profiles it’s how he stockpiles knowledge and power. I don’t know how to attach images into here so here’s the quote I gave.



You’re just standing behind “oh this applies to the record eater” when it’s existence is heavily tied to the records themselves and exist in the same plane. The fact that it doesn’t refer directly to chuniibyou is a non-factor because we already know that ID and Chuniibyou share a universe (Yogiri and Yuichi even lived in the same city).

“It doesn’t prove that it’s 4-D” Not even an argument, just a denial of the premise without refutation.

The fact that you accepted the fact that the HEAVENLY RECORD eater eats space-time like a starving sonic villain is contradictory with your stance on this point since, well that’d mean Heavenly Record = containing Space-Time (which is the case, but ya know)

 

[00potato]

I never said the Records were just 3-A.
They are the universe but bending it isn’t always 4-D since there is no proof the bending is on a 4-D level.

They share a universe (any proof it’s the same one, since a multiverse exists? And ID mostly takes place in a medieval fantasy setting anyway past the start, so it’s still) Ok, still no proof that it directly applies to Shuichi and co, I don’t see how that would change anything.

“it doesn’t prove.” Does help my point since you are trying to prove 4-D, if your evidence doesn’t really support it.

The records aren’t just containing it, they are the universe. Any reality warping could be called “bending the universe.” But that doesn’t prove that it’s 4-D in nature unless it fundamentally effects time and space by its use.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Before Yogiri being BFR'd to the world he is in now, he used to live in the same world of Yuichi's. Thats why the medieval stuff doesnt really happens on Yuichi's world and rather on the other world Yogiri has been BFR'd to.

 

[00potato]

Yeah, so my earlier points still work since most of this isn’t even in the same universe.
So no reason to directly apply it to Shuichi when his verse wasn’t even hinted at in the ID scans.

 

[PhantomØ4]

I meant universe as in verse, my mistake on that as it can be confusing for vs debating but Yogiri’s original world is the same as Yuichi’s and it’s not like this one random universe exists outside of the Multiversal structure of heavenly records lol. Anyways, here’s quote of original world being a Heavenly record since apparently you try to deny that too just because.



So, this line is irrelevant? Got it. No point being made, just you repeating your stance which is not an argument.

They’re the conceptual vessel for it, they’re not directly the universe, if they were the universe Yogiri and co would be standing atop of it. It’s a structure of its own that contains it and exists on the same plane as the heavenly record eater.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I mean, does that even matter? Yuichi is still living under a heavenly record

 

[00potato]

I don’t get how that proves your point.

In one universe, they appear in it but in another, they appear on top the record.
Doesn’t show anything conceptual or even 4-D for bending the universe. Or even it being seperate from the universe, since above its literally called the world, and standing “on top the universe.” Isn’t any less logical then standing in the place around the universe.

I mean, does that even matter? Yuichi is still living under a heavenly record

It does since Shuichi’s abilities/terminology and such aren’t directly mentioned at all. So it is a stretch to apply this to him from an entirely different book, based on vauge suggestions.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Dude, its the cosmology of the verse. If he is under a heavenly record and can change it then its a feat

 

[00potato]

The record is the universe by your own scans, and warping reality isn’t 4-D unless you outright warp time.

Even then you haven’t even disproven the lack of direct connection to Chunnibyo besides a shared multiverse.
No direct mention was made so granting him this much of a buff is ridiculous.