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Um...it was. There's a generic calc for lighting up a universe. It came out to approximately 1 MegaFoe.
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Necrozma's return to 4-B
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
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Oh? Welp thats taken of I guess.The real cal howard said:
But then how come some are 4-A for lightning up a universe?
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Oh okay then. 4-B it is.DMB 1 said:
Though, out of curiosity, would we be able to do anything with Necrozma's second feat of reabsorbing all of the light from Ultra Space?
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Still 4-B as it's the same feat.
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Seriously? I thought re-absorbing all of the light would have different results than releasing it but guess I thought wrong there.
Nevermind then.
Nevermind then.
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Btw, I feel I should bring this up because its bound to come in the manga very very soon.
Zygarde is about a hairs breathe away from flat out fighting one of the UB's in the manga. Already, he's shown to be able to force away an entire herde of Nihilego's as 10% Zygarde (Dog forme) and even as a bunch of Squishy's he's able to keep up with the Ultra Beast that looks like a wall (I cant remember his name) and is involved in the current Necrozma situation in the manga.
Since it seems actual evidence of Zygarde being on the level of the Ultra Beasts is being brought forth, where is this site's stance on what to do with this?
Zygarde is about a hairs breathe away from flat out fighting one of the UB's in the manga. Already, he's shown to be able to force away an entire herde of Nihilego's as 10% Zygarde (Dog forme) and even as a bunch of Squishy's he's able to keep up with the Ultra Beast that looks like a wall (I cant remember his name) and is involved in the current Necrozma situation in the manga.
Since it seems actual evidence of Zygarde being on the level of the Ultra Beasts is being brought forth, where is this site's stance on what to do with this?
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The upper 5-Bs (Aura Trio, Ultra Beasts, Mega Mewtwo, Tapus, Magearna, Tao Trio, Swords of Justice, Zeraora, and Mega Diancie) would likely become 4-B
Also, Zygarde chases away Nihilegos? At 10%? Bruh. Link. PLEASE. Remember that all UBs are MFTL+. That would be some upgrade.
Also, Zygarde chases away Nihilegos? At 10%? Bruh. Link. PLEASE. Remember that all UBs are MFTL+. That would be some upgrade.
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You didnt see that? DUDE. Get with the mangaThe real cal howard said:
In all seriousness, sure man. Give me a second to link it.
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Aura trio?
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Zygarde, Xerneas, YveltalVeloxt1r0kore said:
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Xerneas, Yveltal and Zygarde.Veloxt1r0kore said:
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Welp, now that Peter stole my job (thanks a lot dude.....), his link shows it.
A bunch of Nihilego's surround Sun sometime after he and Moon were dropped off in their world and to get them away from Sun, Zygarde quickly transforms into 10% forme to force them away before transforming back into a bunch of squishys.
A bunch of Nihilego's surround Sun sometime after he and Moon were dropped off in their world and to get them away from Sun, Zygarde quickly transforms into 10% forme to force them away before transforming back into a bunch of squishys.
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Remember, more people scaling to MFTL+/4-B means these feats are more and more likely to be outliers, given how consistent High 6-A to 5-B is among top legendaries.
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Not really, All of the 5-B feats for the top legendaries are pretty casual, especially Xerneas's.
Plus, how can this be an outlier for Zygarde? Zygarde has been stated on more than occasion to be on the level of the Ultra Beasts, the only reason why he wasnt upgraded to where they were before now was because there were no supporting feats for it. At least thats what I think this site agreed to.
And now we have them, and more are very very likely to come too.
Plus, how can this be an outlier for Zygarde? Zygarde has been stated on more than occasion to be on the level of the Ultra Beasts, the only reason why he wasnt upgraded to where they were before now was because there were no supporting feats for it. At least thats what I think this site agreed to.
And now we have them, and more are very very likely to come too.
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Also, here's the other feat I talked about from the recent chapter.
Moon shoots an arrow at Sun's backpack while he's held captive by Stakataka and a bunch of Zygarde Cells fly out. They are fast enough to land on Stakataka's body and block all of it's field of vision so that Lunala can get a clear attack in at point blank range, which also doesnt harm the Zygarde Cells funny enough.
Moon shoots an arrow at Sun's backpack while he's held captive by Stakataka and a bunch of Zygarde Cells fly out. They are fast enough to land on Stakataka's body and block all of it's field of vision so that Lunala can get a clear attack in at point blank range, which also doesnt harm the Zygarde Cells funny enough.
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This was meant to only be a speed feat since Stakataka didnt dodge or evade them in time.Peter1129 said:
The cells absolutely wouldnt scale in power based off this, this was just more support for the speed aspect of the upgrade.
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Though, since a casual attack from Lunala didnt harm the cells who were all over Stakataka's body and were hit by it at point blank range, I guess you can make an argument for the cells AP/Durability based off this?
But I personally wouldnt as its kinda shaky.
But I personally wouldnt as its kinda shaky.
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It is if Stakataka couldn't clearly evade them in time. They popped out of Sun's bag and fell on Stakataka, which is them tagging him.
Stakataka would have easily avoided them if he was that much faster.
Stakataka would have easily avoided them if he was that much faster.
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You do know this is the same series where a bunch of normal Pokémon can fight and injure legendaries right? In fact we've literally seen a bunch of characters in the manga tag Ultra Beast with their Pokemon. The Pokemon series in general doesn't care about the vast difference in speed. Heck in the Diamond and Pearl chapter we have Regigagas and a bunch of characters tagging Dialga and Palkia. And in the Platinum chapter we literally had a battle royale where everybody was tagging Giratina.
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Thats not a fair comparison to this matter Peter.
In the case of "regular pokemon tagging, fighting and injuring Ultra Beasts", those are clear PIS outliers, just as it is for regular mon doing anything to Legengaries in general. Same ordeal with Regigigas tagging Dialga and Palkia and Giratina being involved in a battle royale. Those are all outliers.
Zygarde tagging Ultra Beasts wouldnt be an outlier. Besides it being a legendary, Zygarde again has been stated on more than one occasion to be able to fight the Ultra Beasts which gives it more backing than just a random legendary battle encounter like Regigigas tagging the Creation Trio.. The only reason why Zygarde has never been upgraded to their tier before now was because, again, they were just statements. It was agreed to wait until more evidence came to support it and now we have some. And more is guranteed to be on the way very soon, meaning its not just statements at this point.
However, I never said that Zygarde should be upgraded right now. I personally still agree with waiting until more comes. All im saying is that, at this point, Zygarde scaling to the UB's is likely, not 100% definitely the case.
In the case of "regular pokemon tagging, fighting and injuring Ultra Beasts", those are clear PIS outliers, just as it is for regular mon doing anything to Legengaries in general. Same ordeal with Regigigas tagging Dialga and Palkia and Giratina being involved in a battle royale. Those are all outliers.
Zygarde tagging Ultra Beasts wouldnt be an outlier. Besides it being a legendary, Zygarde again has been stated on more than one occasion to be able to fight the Ultra Beasts which gives it more backing than just a random legendary battle encounter like Regigigas tagging the Creation Trio.. The only reason why Zygarde has never been upgraded to their tier before now was because, again, they were just statements. It was agreed to wait until more evidence came to support it and now we have some. And more is guranteed to be on the way very soon, meaning its not just statements at this point.
However, I never said that Zygarde should be upgraded right now. I personally still agree with waiting until more comes. All im saying is that, at this point, Zygarde scaling to the UB's is likely, not 100% definitely the case.
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You know I never said I disagreed with Zygarde scaling to the Ultra Beasts in all his forms. What I disagree with is Zygarde cells scaling to Ultra Beasts in speed for falling on Stakataka and 10% Zygarde scaling to Ultra Beasts in AP even though it didn't even fight the horde of Nihilego. If 50% or 100% Zygarde shows up later on and fights the Ultra Beasts or Necrozma than I'll be fine with him scaling.
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If Zygarde fights UBs, is M-Rayquaza 4-B possible then?
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So we got enough input it seems. We can update Ultra Necrozma now.
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Actually now that I think bout it, Mega Rayquaza, Deoxys and The Primals probably wouldn't scale to 4-B even if the other 5-B mons do.
Because if I remember correctly, Mewtwo only scales to Zygarde as Mega Mewtwo, not base. The former legendaries don't scale to Mewtwo besides Deoxys and it only scales to a Base Mewtwo.
Only legendaries that scale to Mega Mewtwo, and mons who scale to them, would become 4-B. So Genesect, the Tao Trio, SoJ, Aura Trio, Mega Diancie, and Magearna.
Because if I remember correctly, Mewtwo only scales to Zygarde as Mega Mewtwo, not base. The former legendaries don't scale to Mewtwo besides Deoxys and it only scales to a Base Mewtwo.
Only legendaries that scale to Mega Mewtwo, and mons who scale to them, would become 4-B. So Genesect, the Tao Trio, SoJ, Aura Trio, Mega Diancie, and Magearna.
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Figured I'd point out that regular Necrozma reabsorbing Ultra Space's light would not be 4-B like his Ultra form was.
We are given no timeframe, and the fact that Necrozma would try to use the light to heal its wounds before all light vanished suggests it did not instantly reabsorb all the light it had created. This is not equivalent to UN being bright enough to light up a whole alternate universe. Even if it was 4-B, it is not 4-B to the same degree, and thus harder to gauge.
Before trying to backwards scale everyone before the final chapters are out, I will again post the reminder that Lunala was able to one-shot a huge group of UBs, and base Necrozma casually stomped both Solgaleo and Lunala without even a semblance of a fight.
Earlier, Saikou said the following:
"Remember, more people scaling to MFTL+/4-B means these feats are more and more likely to be outliers, given how consistent High 6-A to 5-B is among top legendaries."
This is 100% true. We have verses with a far greater quantity of high-end feats that are not in any way applied to its characters (or applied to very few) due to the feat itself or certain characters scaling being an outlier.
A single version of Ultra Necrozma having a 4-B feat (manga), one having a feat that isn't even planetary (anime), and one being left undefined (game) does not make it suddenly safe to scale a huge number of tangentially related legendaries to a feat thousands and thousands of times above anything else in the main series that isn't Tier 2.
We are given no timeframe, and the fact that Necrozma would try to use the light to heal its wounds before all light vanished suggests it did not instantly reabsorb all the light it had created. This is not equivalent to UN being bright enough to light up a whole alternate universe. Even if it was 4-B, it is not 4-B to the same degree, and thus harder to gauge.
Before trying to backwards scale everyone before the final chapters are out, I will again post the reminder that Lunala was able to one-shot a huge group of UBs, and base Necrozma casually stomped both Solgaleo and Lunala without even a semblance of a fight.
Earlier, Saikou said the following:
"Remember, more people scaling to MFTL+/4-B means these feats are more and more likely to be outliers, given how consistent High 6-A to 5-B is among top legendaries."
This is 100% true. We have verses with a far greater quantity of high-end feats that are not in any way applied to its characters (or applied to very few) due to the feat itself or certain characters scaling being an outlier.
A single version of Ultra Necrozma having a 4-B feat (manga), one having a feat that isn't even planetary (anime), and one being left undefined (game) does not make it suddenly safe to scale a huge number of tangentially related legendaries to a feat thousands and thousands of times above anything else in the main series that isn't Tier 2.
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I love how you put in the main series, because Dark Matter.
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Except its not just a manga only feat, it's giving more clarificatio on what Necrozma did when lighting up Ultra Space in general. The game especially. I dont know where the "feat isnt even planetary" in the anime bit is even coming from but im almost 100% sure thats blatantly false too.
Also, no, those other verses are not Pokemon. You can't take one character, decide to wait on more evidence to determine if said character actually scales to others besides just statements, and then claim outlier when those feats actually come to light. Not that Im arguing we upgrade Zygarde right now (I still agree with waiting), but saying its an outlier after finally getting more than just statements about Zygarde being on the level of the Ultra Beasts is absolutely ridiculous and dismissive.
And its like I said before. Not only are all the 5-B mon that aren't the Primals casually 5-B, but if Zygarde scales to the UB's, this doesnt even backward scale to all of the 5-B mon. It would only scale to pokemon that scale to Mega Mewtwo because only Mega Mewtwo scales to Zygarde at all.
Also, no, those other verses are not Pokemon. You can't take one character, decide to wait on more evidence to determine if said character actually scales to others besides just statements, and then claim outlier when those feats actually come to light. Not that Im arguing we upgrade Zygarde right now (I still agree with waiting), but saying its an outlier after finally getting more than just statements about Zygarde being on the level of the Ultra Beasts is absolutely ridiculous and dismissive.
And its like I said before. Not only are all the 5-B mon that aren't the Primals casually 5-B, but if Zygarde scales to the UB's, this doesnt even backward scale to all of the 5-B mon. It would only scale to pokemon that scale to Mega Mewtwo because only Mega Mewtwo scales to Zygarde at all.
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No, it's not more clarification. It is an entirely different timeline. Just like the anime (which, by the way, portrays the feat in question vastly differently despite using the same source material). The manga being an adapted version of the game's story does not suddenly make the two of them the same. They have their differences, just as the anime does (albeit the anime makes far larger changes due to having Ash as a protagonist).
"Also, no, those other verses are not Pokemon."
This misses what I am trying to say, and also doesn't matter. Pokemon is not exempt from the standards of every other verse because it's Pokemon.
There is, right now, a single 4-B feat that belongs to Ultra Necrozma. A being who is vastly superior to the damaged, incomplete base Necrozma. Base Necrozma being a 'mon who, in this very story, showed the capacity to casually defeat a pair of legendaries who on their own could casually defeat hordes of UBs in a single shot.
Nobody is saying "Zygarde is not comparable to UBs". I'm saying that none of these things have yet demonstrated being comparable to Ultra Necrozma, and that backwards scaling scores of 'mons to him despite them all being far weaker than even his incomplete state is not how we do things. Especially not before said story has even finished and Necrozma has even shown up.
The 4-B feat would not be an outlier because it is 4-B. It was performed by Ultra Necrozma, who is vastly above most other Pokemon and who is the strongest legendary/UB in the Alola region story (ignoring stuff like Cyrus having a member of the Creation Trio in the USUM post-game). What ca make something like this an outlier is trying to scale it to scores of people. Feats themselves are rarely outliers in a vacuum.
If this thing has a tier 4 feat, that is in no way an outlier or remotely outside of its normal capabilities. Meanwhile, a termagant in some way scaling to that thing or getting a 4-B feat of its own would 100% be an outlier. The two being from the same verse doesn't change that. It's about the characters and consistency of the feats.
"Also, no, those other verses are not Pokemon."
This misses what I am trying to say, and also doesn't matter. Pokemon is not exempt from the standards of every other verse because it's Pokemon.
There is, right now, a single 4-B feat that belongs to Ultra Necrozma. A being who is vastly superior to the damaged, incomplete base Necrozma. Base Necrozma being a 'mon who, in this very story, showed the capacity to casually defeat a pair of legendaries who on their own could casually defeat hordes of UBs in a single shot.
Nobody is saying "Zygarde is not comparable to UBs". I'm saying that none of these things have yet demonstrated being comparable to Ultra Necrozma, and that backwards scaling scores of 'mons to him despite them all being far weaker than even his incomplete state is not how we do things. Especially not before said story has even finished and Necrozma has even shown up.
The 4-B feat would not be an outlier because it is 4-B. It was performed by Ultra Necrozma, who is vastly above most other Pokemon and who is the strongest legendary/UB in the Alola region story (ignoring stuff like Cyrus having a member of the Creation Trio in the USUM post-game). What ca make something like this an outlier is trying to scale it to scores of people. Feats themselves are rarely outliers in a vacuum.
If this thing has a tier 4 feat, that is in no way an outlier or remotely outside of its normal capabilities. Meanwhile, a termagant in some way scaling to that thing or getting a 4-B feat of its own would 100% be an outlier. The two being from the same verse doesn't change that. It's about the characters and consistency of the feats.
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I 100% agree with Azzy as usual.
That said, not sure it would devalue MFTL+ as Ultra Necrozma isn't the one with the feat. Solgaleo and Lunala are.
That said, not sure it would devalue MFTL+ as Ultra Necrozma isn't the one with the feat. Solgaleo and Lunala are.
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