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Natsu gets slain like a dragon (Natsu vs HoL)

Natsu is stronger than his previous FDKM which was passively 24 gigatons while HoL is >= Carnax who is casually baseline. Hmm ..... Does HoL use any of his hax like time/matter/mind manip or transmutation at the start of the fight? If he doesn't, he gets one shot. If he does ...... he most likely gets one shot anyway since the range of his spells are only dozens of meters while Natsu leads with a roar from 4km away.

I dunno if its fair but Imma vote Natsu if it is.
 
I suppose it is a range stomp considering HoL can't even see Natsu from that distance. I will change it so they are both 10m away.
 
Adventure Quest Hero of Lore needs revisions & 30% of the AQ HoL's powers and abilities belong to the AQW HoL.

Also, all HoL versions are getting type 9 immortality due to being avatars of the Eternal Dragon of Time.
 
They have the same powers because of coincidence, not because it's copied and pasted.

HoL choices are player dependant so the answer as to what he starts with is usually what is best. Time stop is always a good choice with his chronomancer armor, though I might as well mention it is a selective time stop and only effects his opponent, not the entire world.

Necromancy and summoning a plethora of allies with his magic is also a good strat, overwhelming Natsu with sheer numbers makes it easy for HoL to avoid direct confrontation and possibly setup stronger attacks. He also has fear manipulation in the form of several items such as this, mind manipulation in the form of his vampire skill mesmerize (which causes Natsu to attack himself for a brief period of time).

If that wasn't enough HoL can summon a single clone of himself in a small, normal or large variety. The clone copies HoL's skills and equipment. So not only is he attacking twice, Natsu has no idea who the real clone is all the while he's being time stopped, stunned, mindhaxed, etc etc. Honestly any scenario that is thrown towards HoL's way can be countered by me googling equipment for him to use that exists within the game.

(HoL has hammerspace and can switch equipment and armor on the fly, so it's not like it requires prep time or anything.)

Natsu is going to have more than a hard time despite his AP advantage as he is severely outhaxed in a numerous amount of ways that can be chained. In his own game HoL consistently fights opponents much stronger and wins with sheer versatility.
 
Numbers against Natsu are useless when he takes out hundreds with one attack in this mode. Natsu's passive heat almost one shots so an actual attack is gonna slaughter armies of HoL clones let alone summons that are likely weaker than HoL.

Natsu power nulls hax though. Against Dimaria, he burns through her time stop. Against FH Zeref he burns through time and death hax. Time manip is useless.

Natsu punching himself does nothing when his flames don't hurt him. He was made to punch himself (flames and all) by Totomaru back in the Phantom Lord Arc and shrugs it off.

Reading that link for the scythe, it requires it to land an attack first.

As it is, Natsu still stomps by doing anything seeing as just raising his magic power for an attack will kill HoL at this range and any further away will prevent HoL from doing a thing while still getting one shot.
 
HoL is above baseline in his last key by a far margin, able to contest with people who have been treated with the ability to destroy the planet (which is vague sure and can range from country level to planet level, but it's clearly much higher than baseline island level). Not only that but he becomes a lot stronger post Carnax saga, it's just unquantifiable as to how strong he really gets.

That being said, if we treat it like he is baseline (which he's not) it's still only a 6x power differential, not enough to one-shot but enough to really hurt and possibly incap. Natsu's aura hits him from a distance and possibly floors him but it does not end the fight whatsoever.

Armors like this tank can function as a shield against his ranged attacks and can launch 6-C water blasts back (which I'm not sure if he's inherently weak to). Armors like this dragon mount equips HoL with powerful ice based attacks to counter his heat and fire. Armors like this mount can poison him if they pierce his skin. Armors like this powersuit grant him supernatural luck. Armors like this can actively blind Natsu via light manipulation, spells like this school bellcan temporarily daze opponents when struck... etc etc etc etc.

Many many ways to incapacitate and create openings on Natsu as well as deal with his fire based attacks. Keep in mind he's also being attacked by HoL's clone who's copying his exact movements.
 
HoL can recover health and mana through a variety of spells and even passively via having his fairy god mother do it. He can rewind time with purple rai whilst still retaining his memories (though this presumably applies to Natsu as well).

So clearly he has many ways of also keeping his physical ability up throughout the fight, a couple attacks of Natsu won't mean anything since he can just heal it away or, if severe enough, rewind time and avoid it for the future.
 
I've been wondering about that last key. The Carnax scales to island level due to statements saying he destroyed one easily so The'Galin would presumably scale to planet level with his statements. Why is HoL only island possibly planeary rather than small planet or something. Even with a lot of people helping out, I presume he is able to at least scratch The'Galin on his own.

Regardless, even being far above baseline, Natsu is still of a similar, if not greater, level just from his presence alone. Actually attacking would obviously be immensely superior so oneshotting is still a likely thing.

The water and ice might help but Natsu vapes similar levels of water just with his presence, Natsu bypassed Madmole's armor dragon form which is specifically stated to resist heat. How strong is the poison because Natsu resists Erik's which is able to decay things despite him having inhaled it and having wounds coated in the stuff. Thats if it doesn't get burned away. Does the luck suit have any feats of how effective the luck boost is? The blinding could work but how good are HoL's skill feats to actually land a hit.

The clone doesn't really matter when Natsu has already fought 2 opponents with perfect teamwork and completely demolished them. Said opponents scaling above everyone in the GMG in terms of skill that isn't a Fairy Tail heavy hitter, Kagura and maybe Bacchus.

That health recovery better be absurd because Natsu is getting rid of most, if not all, of his hp with each hit.

None of those actually let him keep up physically though. Its just more variety in his attacks which still do chip damage at best. Time rewind doesn't really matter aside from letting stay in the fight a second longer and that is only if he actually survives the hit or isn't KO'd immediately.
 
Good points, let me refute now.

HoL is only possibly planetary because it took him and dozens of other heroes on his level using shit tons of magic (many of which can have durability ignoring effects which I will touch on later) and some general deus ex machina. He only really takes him head on once he's already been weakened.

Regardless, I can simply make this Carnax HoL for consistency. That means Natsu carries around a 6x AP advantage (baseline vs 24gigaton). His aura being weaker than he is would be closer to a 2-4x AP difference attack. Neither are in the oneshot range though admittedly they do bring HoL really ******* close to dying.

With that out of the way, lets go into more abilities.

HoL has many spells with broken health recovery. Healing water, healing light, healing flowers, etc etc. All three can take him from extremely low HP to max depending on a little bit of RNG but in general you gain a lot of health back. He has lifesteal in the form of the spell sipho which can either take large amounts of life or mana so he can restore his own. Obviously a spell directly taking life ignores durability, so Natsu being strong doesn't cut it. In general with these spells he can come back from a near oneshot and keep on keeping on.

Crazy amounts of water in the form of this torrent spell, this maple syrup spell and chocolate syrup spell(which is logically harder to evaporate), this one that is potent enough to freeze the soul, and this ice tornado. Many more spells that can also summon other beings such as water dragons to envelop Natsu without need for HoL. My point is his fire can be easily stalled with a variety of attacks.

Then there's the fact he can flat out resist fire based attacks with armors like this infernal plate(which literally say that it's enchanted to absorb fire based attacks) and this suit (which describe it taking only 42% damage from fire alligned attacks). He can flat out negate attacks with this suits forcefieldthough admittedly it would chunk his mana supply greatly (this can be remedied with the previously mentioned siphon or fairy grand mother).

I would say this is the most effective armor in this fight, it's special ability literally warps/teleports him and his opponent into an arena of ice, it being so cold that it passively burns enemies. Very effective in subduing a lot of flame based attacks from Natsu.
 
Natsu being a one-trick (and by that I mean only abusing fire) is very abusable in this fight. From literally warping the arena into a realm of ice to enveloping him and his flames in waves of chocolate syrup, he's going to have a hard time getting his flames to reach HoL.

If he decides to stop spamming fire and reach HoL directly then he can either be mindhaxed into briefly fighting himself or stunned (with spells mentioned in previous posts) who then distances himself again with tidal waves of maple and chocolate syrup.

Of course, Natsu is fighting 2-5 opponents some of which who use water/ice based attacks. I can show you some of his cool summons and pets if you'd like, but the gist is they are all comparable in strength to HoL and have a variety of elemental attacks. If he does land a hit on the hero then he can easily be stunned/mindhaxed and dealt with by others while the hero simply backs off and casts a powerful healing spell on himself before continuing to fight as said stun/mindhax is wearing off.
 
Natsu's fire is hot enough to vaporize sand. That's hotter than 30,000 K. The water/ice attacks and the ice/chocolate syrup arena would get melted by his presence.

Natsu's AOE is huge. He can easily hit all 2-5 opponents in a single attack.

For the healing abilities, they all rely on something getting to HoL. Natsu can power null the water, light, and pollen, negating any healing that would normally be done. The Life/Magic siphon has a magic seal show up in the air before absorbing, so Natsu can power null that seal.
 
And here I was gonna type a long post but Dragon sums it up with a few lines. The dura neg spells make this considerably more fair but I still think Natsu slaps so yeah, put me down for a him.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Natsu's AOE is huge. He can easily hit all 2-5 opponents in a single attack.
Click to expand...
2-5?

He took down 973 people at once with just one roar attack. Granted that some of them were lining up in a formation, but the number would still be around hundreds.

Also, voting Natsu via sheer AP and huge AoE alone.
 
Natsu can powernull other people's buffs/healing? When has he done something like that? His page says "limited" and only describes him nulling certain attacks done to him.

Regardless HoL still has a forcefield to outright tank his blows at the cost of his mana (which can easily be recovered through a variety of means), has armor literally enchanted to absorb fire based attacks and can warp the arena to a realm of ice for a big terrain disadvantage for Natsu. If he starts melting everything around him then he loses his footing and finds himself in a realm of water, a place where HoL has far far far far more mobility.

That and he has no resistance to paralyze, mindhax or fear manip so he would find himself standing still or hitting himself most of the fight honestly. If he does land a hit on HoL he just gets chain stunned again and HoL recovers his health by siphoning it from Natsu.
 
The reason it's limited is because of different interpretations on powernull. Let's say someone threw a ball of shadows at him with magic and he powernulled that ball. His powernull doesn't make it so that the person who threw the atack is powernulled, just the attack. He's not powernulling the buff/healing, he's powernulling the ability before it can buff/heal. Besides, he powernulls regen which is healing.

Yeah, but Natsu's overpowered people with fire resistance before. He'll just evaporate the water too. The grim reaper scythe requires Natsu to get hit to activate and that's not happening when Natsu's nuking the area with giant AOE blasts.
 
Powernulling regen is not the same as powernulling healing magic. HoL covers himself in light and you said that could still be powernulled... so source of him doing something similar?

Of course the fire resistance isn't going to make him invulnerable but it reduces his AP to some degree. His mindhax does not require physical contact, his paralyze ca be ranged, his sleep inducement is ranged, he can blind Natsu via allergies, the smog from a fireblast, and passively through this reflecting plate.

He literally would not be able to function for a large majority of the fight. He's physically blinded in an assortment of ways, put to sleep, paralyzed, mindhaxed... all of which HoL can cast from 10m away and immediately put any threat of a fireblast to rest.

When Natsu's on the floor HoL can just siphon his life energy away whilst having his summons beat on an unconcious boy. If he starts to wake up then HoL prepares his spells again and just mindhax chains him once more. Will HoL get punched? Maybe, but even so he can easily incapacitate Natsu and recover what health he lost.
 
It's magic water, pollen, and light. You power null that, it doesn't heal anymore. It's on his examples, his Powernull doesn't only work on offensive attacks, that's why I mentioned the regen.

Not really. It reduces the burn of flames, sure. But it doesn't do anything to his fists which are comparable. Using the fireblast would be bad for him as Natsu would just eat it and get stronger. Natsu can just eat the Thunderwave and then he would go into Lighting Flame Dragon mode, making it worse for HoL. The candy cane attack gets melted and the Neko attack is percentage based paralysis that gets worse the stronger the opponent is compared to HoL. That's literally just light from a shiny armor, even if it does make it hard for Natsu to see, his enhanced senses are more than enough to fight without looking.


"all of which HoL can cast from 10m away and immediately put any threat of a fireblast to rest."

Being ten meters away isn't going to help him, Natsu's range is several kilometers.

"Weaknesses: Can sometimes be a bit accident-prone and absent-minded, sometimes has elemental weaknesses depending on current equipment, can be rather cocky, is rather gullible."

He doesn't seem like the hypercompetent spams every hax he has at the start of the match guy that you're making him out to be. Do you have an example of times where he's started with all those abilities at once?
 
You're taking powernull in a broad context and ignoring how Natsu uses it. He burns away hax or powers that are being used against him, how exactly does he burn away light? He doesn't puwernull regen, he has Regenerationn negation which is slightly different.

It reduces his fists too. In Lore (the planet where AQ takes place), most attacks are elementally alligned (the only ones that aren't are strange magical exceptions) including punches and kicks. Armor that reduces fire damage does not just reduce flames, but punches and kicks that are alligned with the element too. So any equipment that reduces fire damage reduces damage from Natsu in general (since he would most certainly be fire alligned in the world of Lore, verse equilization).

You still forgot the waves of darkness that force Natsu to sleep, the smog that blinds opponents, the conjuring of allergies, etc etc. Neko still has a chance which is still bad for Natsu.

"Being ten meters away isn't going to help him, Natsu's range is several kilometers"

That wasn't my point, the fight takes place with both fighters being 10m away. HoL is within range to immediately cast his incap spells on him.

"He doesn't seem like the hypercompetent spams every hax he has at the start of the match guy that you're making him out to be. Do you have an example of times where he's started with all those abilities at once?"

His weakness is based on his personality and dialogue, he's a pretty dumb dude but nevertheless very skilled. During fights his attacks are all player determined. Him spamming hax is what is best for this situation, and no player would look at an enemy Natsu's strength difference and then decide not to incapacitate him first.
 
You mean like proof like his power null works on non tangible things? Isn't that the same thing as asking how he burns away existence erasure?

The smog would just get eaten along with the fire. The allergies come from a wind spell, so he can just powernull the wind.

"Him spamming hax is what is best for this situation, and no player would look at an enemy Natsu's strength difference and then decide not to incapacitate him first."

He doesn't have info analysis, how would he know Natsu's so much stronger that he needs to use all his incapping hax?
 
Burning away a blast of existence erasing magic is not the same as burning away light lol.

He does have info analysis it just isn't listed on his profile. He has a scroll containing stats and description of every fight encounter (though some descriptions simply read ???, but stats are always displayed). I can add it to his profile later but it's covered under the last sentence saying "and many more" (abilities).
 
Are you talking about tangibility? Because there's no difference between magic light and the stuff Natsu's null works on.

What do you mean by every fight encounter? Like, even people he hasn't fought yet?
 
I guess so, but Natsu burning away light seems weird to me and I'd need to see a feat of him burning away something similar. Existence erasing beams is not similar.

Yes but it's treated as an "in the moment thing". If someone comes up to him he can read a scroll on their stats and general description. Sometimes the description is vague but stats are always displayed accuratly. Where does he get said scroll? In his... inventory? It's weird and kind of toon-forcish, I know.
 
Well, where it says he powernulled sealing, the thing he powernulled was a seal made out of white magic. I don't see the difference between AE magic light and FT magic light when it exists in both places.

So wouldn't Natsu start attacking him while he's pulling it out and reading it?
 
Can I just see the feat rather than have you explain it to me? I googled it and can't find what I'm looking for.

Likely, but then that warrants HoL to incapacitate him temporarily so he can read it. It's also kind of a dick move so I don't know how that fits into Natsu's personality.
 
So how is him burning through some magical darkness wave the same as burning a few strobes of light that appear arround HoL?

And like I said, it's probably best if HoL heals AFTER he incapacitates Natsu, not before.
 
I don't really see what's different about it. They're both intangible.

Edit: This isn't something that can be visibly seen from the scan, but Natsu also powernulls Zeref's ability to manipulate time.
 
Then maybe I will concede he can powernull his healing if he burns it away in time. Doesn't change the fact that HoL incapacitates him and then heals.
 
Physical and elemental resistances, yes. Ability resistances (like resistance to time stop), probably not though it may be covered in the text description.

Off the top of my head Natsu has no resistance to the Neko which is percentage based fear manip/paralysis and no resistance to the sleep wave one, which puts Natsu to sleep upon contact with a waterfall of shadow magic. He also has no resistance to mesmerize which is an eye-based mindhax that forces him to attack himself. Scroll up and you can see the previous links.

So many ways to put him to sleep and then HoL can siphon his life force away pretty easily.
 
I think Natsu could powernull the shadow magic too. With the EE example I listed above, he was covered in it before powernulling it without being erased. Since the scroll doesn't tell him about Natsu's powernull, pulling it out and reading it before trying the methods that don't work would give Natsu enough time to overpower him.
 
Sure but it puts him to sleep on contact. He was clearly enveloped in your previous example so he's not burning it away fast enough to not get touched.
 
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