naruto vs goku(only abilities)

[SirAlex09]

And? One is a projectile, ball, or aura that needs to make contact and can be overpowered while the other is a technique that one can't dodge because it spawns on a target immediately affecting the entirety of the target

They both employ the same ki. Ki that erases matter, energy and souls. The Application form doesn't matter. Just resisting said Ki should give the same resistances. If Goku can resist the spheres he can logically resist the Hakai technique as well.

Best example is Sidra. He said he would Hakai Frieza if he does anything funny only for his Kaioshin to doubt it after them witnessing him resisting that Energy sphere of destruction.

 

[Alexander]

hamura from samurai 8 or whatever that protagonist is called(i don't know), he can destroy goku

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

They both employ the same ki. Ki that erases matter, energy and souls. The Application form doesn't matter. Just resisting said Ki should give the same resistances. If Goku can resist the spheres he can logically resist the Hakai technique as well.

And how is that relevant to the topic of Naruto resisting it?

You asked if "Naruto's soul would be affected by it's Soul EE" because his body is resistant.

Then I asked you why you were treating it as if it wouldn't just because his body is resistant, even when Hakai erases the body, ki, and soul at the same time when used.

 

[SirAlex09]

And how is that relevant to the topic of Naruto resisting it?

You asked if "Naruto's soul would be affected by it's Soul EE" because his body is resistant.

Then I asked you why you were treating it as if it wouldn't just because his body is resistant, even when Hakai erases the body, ki, and soul at the same time when used.

So my problem WAS the following :
Hakai doesn't work on beings with greater Ki. Ki gives resistances by forming a skin tight barrier around them. So if Hakai can't get physically past that it won't work. But it destroys the Soul , for which Naruto has no Resistance against apparently, when it manages to get past the opponent's durability.

So my question is whether we can assume that Naruto resists it since Hakai can't get past his body to destroy his soul. Then you replied that these balls with EoD is different from Hakai, to which I replied that it works exactly the same.

 

[Alexander]

So my problem WAS the following :
Hakai doesn't work on beings with greater Ki. Ki gives resistances by forming a skin tight barrier around them. So if Hakai can't get physically past that it won't work. But it destroys the Soul , for which Naruto has no Resistance against apparently, when it manages to get past the opponent's durability.

So my question is whether we can assume that Naruto resists it since Hakai can't get past his body to destroy his soul. Then you replied that these balls with EoD is different from Hakai, to which I replied that it works exactly the same.

for that reason, naruto has resistance to that,please even shinra in shinra banshoman has resisten to that to

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

So my question is whether we can assume that Naruto resists it since Hakai can't get past his body to destroy his soul.

You've still treating the version Hakai where you raise your hand as a projectile where it needs to go through his body to hit the soul.

Then you replied that these balls with EoD is different from Hakai, to which I replied that it works exactly the same.

Because they are though?

One has to travel, get in contact, and can be dodged, while the other can be cast immediately and directly on the target.

 

[SirAlex09]

You've still treating the version Hakai where you raise your hand as a projectile where it needs to go through his body to hit the soul.

Never mind. Naruto loses nevertheless

 

[Kidkinsey]

comparing tien and companies analytical prediction to the sharingans which can see a image of the future is kinda wild ngl. And how does solar flare counter rasengan? Also narutos sensing aren't just tied to killing intent or negative emotions sage mode grants the basic spiderman danger sense as well

 

[SirAlex09]

comparing tien and companies analytical prediction to the sharingans which can see a image of the future is kinda wild ngl. And how does solar flare counter rasengan? Also narutos sensing aren't just tied to killing intent or negative emotions sage mode grants the basic spiderman danger sense as well

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
1) Rasengan is melee range. You basically run at the opponent. Goku has a huge range advantage. Naruto could never close the gap if Goku choose to keep it ranged. Thus in certain scenario it hardcounters it. Naruto has to be extremely careful to close the gap and can't do it carelessly, which puts him at a disadvantage.

2) Sharingan isn't future sight. It's pattern analysis and it has shown to fail if there isn't any pattern ( when Chakra arms attacked on their own and Sasuke versus Killer B ) , so stop treating it like observation haki, jesus christ.

Tien, Krillin, Jiren etc are far more skilled in pure H2h combat. They don't need a sharingan to predict fighting patterns. It's basic martial skills in original Dragonball.
Jiren even predicted all of Hit's attacks which is far more impressive than any sharingan feat since Hit is ahead of him in time.



3) Secondly: Spidersense is basically precognition. Spiderman as a MHS speed level can react to FTL and MFTL stuff. Sage mode sensing on its own isn't on that level without Negative emotion sensing. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/v...555-013.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170610045435

We can see on that picture that it enables him to react faster to the increasing range of Raikage's attack faster. It's the same as when Obito reacted to Amaterasu by sensing Sasuke charging chakra in his eye via Six pathes sage mode sensing. Yah it gives him pseudo precog against Chakra attacks and via verses equalisation rules against Ki attacks as well. So he could react to surprise attacks like God binding or Solar flare by avoid the range, basically all Ki attacks that have a long cast time.

But what is he going to against punches and kicks lmfao?! XD Naruto gets outskilled severely. Can't see him fight people who are at least 50x stronger than him with skill alone like Goku did against Broly.

 

[Kidkinsey]

I know rasengan is melee range but you said solar flare hard counters it thats why I asked how. Naruto can also play a ranged game with TBB RS chakra arms etc

Pattern analysis implies its some sort of guess and yes while its true the sharingan don't see the future they quite literally SEE an image of whats about to happen so its better then what tien and company do

Narutos negative emotion sensing is from kcm. His sage mode sensing is factually better admitted by himself lol, It dosen't only apply to chakra attack or things with charge times

 

[StekFence]

they quite literally SEE an image of whats about to happen

How isnt that future sight

 

[Kidkinsey]

Because they technically aren't seeing the future I guess but its why people always refer to it as precog

 

[SirAlex09]

I know rasengan is melee range but you said solar flare hard counters it thats why I asked how. Naruto can also play a ranged game with TBB RS chakra arms etc

This is like comparing a bow to a sniper rifle.. Also his firing rate sucks in comparison to Goku's.

Pattern analysis implies its some sort of guess and yes while its true the sharingan don't see the future they quite literally SEE an image of whats about to happen so its better then what tien and company do

Nope Pattern analysis isn't just some sort of guess. You see an image in your mind based on the pattern that you have analysed and calculated. (The better and more skilled a fighter is the more accurate it is) A good example is Observation Haki from One piece. On its lower level it is simply patter analysis and can be countered by changing one's pattern. ( Enel vs Luffy) They also see the direction of attacks in their mind similar to the sharingan. And just like the Sharingan it can be countered by doing random attacks with no pattern.

Future Sight on the other hand can't be countered by changes in attack pattern because you quite literally see what is going to happen.

Narutos negative emotion sensing is from kcm. His sage mode sensing is factually better admitted by himself lol, It dosen't only apply to chakra attack or things with charge times

They both have advantages and disadvantages. Negatve emotion sensing is interdimensional and can react to any attacks. Sage mode sensing is better and more accurate / sensitive to chakra based attacks and chakra movement . Example if Sasuke moves from Point A to be B while using chidori Naruto will be able to sense it accurately with SM sensing. But when they fight H2h combat Negative emotion sensingis better because he will sense his opponents desire to hurt him whenever they want to punch or kick.

In short they complement each other and paired together they reach the highest level of sensing possible, bordering the levels of precognition.

But against Goku negative emotion sensing won't work because Goku sees it as a sport.

 

[speedster352]

This is like comparing a bow to a sniper rifle.. Also his firing rate sucks in comparison to Goku's.


Nope Pattern analysis isn't just some sort of guess. You see an image in your mind based on the pattern that you have analysed and calculated. (The better and more skilled a fighter is the more accurate it is) A good example is Observation Haki from One piece. On its lower level it is simply patter analysis and can be countered by changing one's pattern. ( Enel vs Luffy) They also see the direction of attacks in their mind similar to the sharingan. And just like the Sharingan it can be countered by doing random attacks with no pattern.

Future Sight on the other hand can't be countered by changes in attack pattern because you quite literally see what is going to happen.

They both have advantages and disadvantages. Negatve emotion sensing is interdimensional and can react to any attacks. Sage mode sensing is better and more accurate / sensitive to chakra based attacks and chakra movement . Example if Sasuke moves from Point A to be B while using chidori Naruto will be able to sense it accurately with SM sensing. But when they fight H2h combat Negative emotion sensingis better because he will sense his opponents desire to hurt him whenever they want to punch or kick.

In short they complement each other and paired together they reach the highest level of sensing possible, bordering the levels of precognition.

But against Goku negative emotion sensing won't work because Goku sees it as a sport.

Goku also has god ki which stops sensing unless you are a god yourself or have god ki

 

[SirAlex09]

Goku also has god ki which stops sensing unless you are a god yourself or have god ki

Good point. Totally forgot about it.

In short Naruto is outclassed in Melee, Aerial and Ranged Combat.

Goku will read his Rasengan like a Book and Shadow clones gets countered too hard by Hakai, AOE and teleportation.

Naruto can only beat Goku by dragging out the fight with his healing factor until Goku tires out like when he fought against Delta. He has to go for Dual exchanges and keep outsustaining him. That's basically his only win condition. He has to fight defensively.

Naruto 3/10
Goku 7/10

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

This is like comparing a bow to a sniper rifle.. Also his firing rate sucks in comparison to Goku's.

Holy shit, that's a horrible take. You do know that Naruto can Rapid Fire Spam Bijū-Damas like a ******* Machine Gun right? Kurama literally does it against Hashirama when he can't even think clearly thanks to Madara's Genjutsu so imagine what a much more experienced and powerful Kurama can do at Naruto's Disposal.

 

[speedster352]

Holy shit, that's a horrible take. You do know that Naruto can Rapid Fire Spam Bijū-Damas like a ******* Machine Gun right? Kurama literally does it against Hashirama when he can't even think clearly thanks to Madara's Genjutsu so imagine what a much more experienced and powerful Kurama can do at Naruto's Disposal.

IT get's Goku away

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

IT get's Goku away

That's fine, I'm just pointing out how awful that comparison was.

 

[SirAlex09]

Holy shit, that's a horrible take. You do know that Naruto can Rapid Fire Spam Bijū-Damas like a ******* Machine Gun right? Kurama literally does it against Hashirama when he can't even think clearly thanks to Madara's Genjutsu so imagine what a much more experienced and powerful Kurama can do at Naruto's Disposal.

XDDDDDDDDDD Jesus christ. Are you seriously comparing Naruto's firing rate to Goku's? Let me ask you again. Did you seriously compare Naruto's firing rate to Goku's ?



Oh and I would like to see a Manga scan to that and not that Anime Filler scene. I swear you guys are grasping every straw.

Second: Did you also seriously compare Universal range to continal range with a straight face?

 

[speedster352]

Basically, Goku counters Naruto by blocking his presence with god ki and spamming hundreds of ki blast to defeat Naruto clones so Goku takes this

 

[Alexander]

XDDDDDDDDDD Jesus christ. Are you seriously comparing Naruto's firing rate to Goku's? Let me ask you again. Did you seriously compare Naruto's firing rate to Goku's ?



Oh and I would like to see a Manga scan to that and not that Anime Filler scene. I swear you guys are grasping every straw.

Second: Did you also seriously compare Universal range to continal range with a straight face?

guess what, boruto is canon, and it's more canon than the manga

 

[SirAlex09]

Kurama literally does it against Hashirama when he can't even think clearly thanks to Madara's Genjutsu

Oh and I would like to see a Manga scan to that and not that Anime Filler scene

guess what, boruto is canon, and it's more canon than the manga

?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

?

Here's Naruto doing it and now I gotta find that scan from Madara vs Hashirama.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Here's Madara doing it, albeit with the Majestic Attire: Susano'o but Kurama would still have to produce that many of them almost instantly for this to work like it's shown On-Panel.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

You do realize you just linked Kurama's VS Wiki profile for both of your posts?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

You do realize you just linked Kurama's VS Wiki profile for both of your posts?

Did I? Naruto literally has a GIF of the Bijū-Dama Spam on his Profile that I tried to link and Madara's Majestic Attire: Susano'o AP Justification is a link to his Rapid Fire Bijū-Dama Spam.

 

[SirAlex09]

Here's Madara doing it, albeit with the Majestic Attire: Susano'o but Kurama would still have to produce that many of them almost instantly for this to work like it's shown On-Panel.

Still far less than Goku's , which is my point.

 

[Kidkinsey]

I deadass do not recall tien and company being able see an image in their mind based on reading their opponets mind similar to the sharingan. If u can send a gif or scan that would be helpful. That future sight example isnt exactly true the homing and acceleration aspect of luffys python caught katakuri off guard twice

He dosen't need the emotion sense aspect for goku he has his SM danger sense and his 6paths senses in general

 

[speedster352]

I deadass do not recall tien and company being able see an image in their mind based on reading their opponets mind similar to the sharingan. If u can send a gif or scan that would be helpful. That future sight example isnt exactly true the homing and acceleration aspect of luffys python caught katakuri off guard twice

He dosen't need the emotion sense aspect for goku he has his SM danger sense and his 6paths senses in general

Goku has god ki so no sensing for naruto

 

[Kidkinsey]

isn't his sensing layered since he can sense limbos?

 

[speedster352]

isn't his sensing layered since he can sense limbos?

You need to be a god or have godly ki to sense gods

 

[StekFence]

You need to be a god or have godly ki to sense gods

I’m pretty sure u would only need “layered” senses

 

[speedster352]

I’m pretty sure u would only need “layered” senses

Nope it's very specific and Goku can mask his presence

 

[Alexander]

wow can you close this so i can do simon the digger vs many characters from other verses

 

[theultimate5105]

You need to be a god or have godly ki to sense gods

Naruto literally has Godly chakra
also no Layered hax would bypass it and much weaker forms of Narutos Extrasensory perception are layered

 

[speedster352]

Naruto literally has Godly chakra
also no Layered hax would bypass it and much weaker forms of Narutos Extrasensory perception are layered

Nope only characters with god ki or a god themselves can sense godly characters

 

[theultimate5105]

Nope only characters with god ki or a god themselves can sense godly characters

Not how it works at all. Naruto is basically a god anyways so it does not matter

 

[SirAlex09]

Naruto is basically a god

literally =/= metaphorically

 

[Alexander]

literally =/= metaphorically

no, literally naruto is a god, he has the powers of one

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Nope only characters with god ki or a god themselves can sense godly characters

Or, you know, layered hax like how literally everything else on the Wiki works.