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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Samlex1234 said:
I think I understand his point, and I agree with it to some extent. Essentially, he’s suggesting that Shibai possesses two aspects or “keys”to his godhood: one rooted in his physical existence, and the other in his incorporeal state.

According to Amado, Shibai deliberately discarded his body after completing his evolution. This indicates that he had already reached a higher-dimensional, god-like existence while still in possession of a physical form, and he simply abandoned that vessel once it was no longer necessary. That’s why his DNA still carries traces of all his Shinjutsu abilities, including Omnipotence, the “Shinjutsu of Shinjutsu,” which are now inherited by beings such as Eida and the others.

“He deliberately discarded his body.”

Shibai’s physical form after completing evolution the point at which he became a god.

Shibai’s incorporeal state after discarding his body.
Click to expand...
Then that's simply a useless key because the incorporeal key would only have an extra HDE in the p&a section. Everything else is the same. It's not a meaningful distinction.

And that still doesn't explain why Omnipotence would be tied to him deliberately discarding his body.
 
Tdjwo said:
Also, Shibai just uses omnipotence to make himself resistant to soul crush.

Ngl, omnipotence is kind of a no limits fallacy ability. Too busted.
Click to expand...
would that actually work? Considering it’s stated to be ineffective against Ōtsutsuki in general. I assume this means they cannot just buff themselves or whatever.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Then that's simply a useless key because the incorporeal key would only have an extra HDE in the p&a section. Everything else is the same. It's not a meaningful distinction.

And that still doesn't explain why Omnipotence would be tied to him deliberately discarding his body.
Click to expand...
Omnipotence isn’t tied to Shibai discarding his body, it’s tied to the fact that he is a god. Whether in his physical or incorporeal form, that divinity remains constant. Therefore, Shibai would be capable of wielding Omnipotence at its full potential in both states.
 
Samlex1234 said:
Omnipotence isn’t tied to Shibai discarding his body, it’s tied to the fact that he is a god. Whether in his physical or incorporeal form, that divinity remains constant. Therefore, Shibai would be capable of wielding Omnipotence at its full potential in both states.
Click to expand...
Then yeah. There should be only two keys. One where he's god and one where he isn't. Nothing needs to be changed
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Then yeah. There should be only two keys. One where he's god and one where he isn't. Nothing needs to be changed
Click to expand...

“he must've compiled a less than one fruit differential of power between his God form and his Mortal form“
But even his god form has two keys🌚. One where he still has his Physical form and the Other where he is incorporeal..
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
would that actually work? Considering it’s stated to be ineffective against Ōtsutsuki in general. I assume this means they cannot just buff themselves or whatever.
Click to expand...
It depends on how its used. For instance, omnipotence is used to turn reality against Boruto (who is also an Otsutsuki). Everyone sees boruto as Kawaki and vice versa. The only thing that didnt change is omnipotence affecting Boruto or Kawaki directly.

If Shibai hypothetically did use omnipotence on himself to become resistant to soul crush, it would work. There shouldn't be any reason why it wouldnt. Its not like he's using it against a fellow otsutsuki directly.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
What's your point. How should his keys be divided?
Click to expand...
Physical body and transcended. “Mortal” Shibai is irrelevant and we don’t know anything about his strength and abilities at his various stages of evolution. I think the current keys are, in fact, already divided like that, the mortal key is just wrongly named. The misconception is that Shibai wasnt a god in his physical form - he was. His godhood was a prerequisite for his ascension. When Amado speaks about him as a god and his abilities, he is shown in his physical body on a normal planet, not as a higher dimensional existence. We are never shown higher dimensional Shibai (we can speculate that the being that was shown when Isshikis soul spoke to Code is him since theres a strong resemblance to Shibai’s physical body, but its not confirmed).

The people that say that Shibai should get full Omnipotence scaling in his physical body are probably correct. He has Omnipotence, hes a god and hes an Otsutsuki, which are the requirements for controlling the ability. Even Eida is probably capable of using Omnipotence on the scale of Narutos entire cosmos since the wave she sent out travelled from Earth even to other dimensions like the one that Code is in. She just cant consciously use the ability.
 
lolgutwo said:
Physical body and transcended. “Mortal” Shibai is irrelevant and we don’t know anything about his strength and abilities at his various stages of evolution. I think the current keys are, in fact, already divided like that, the mortal key is just wrongly named. The misconception is that Shibai wasnt a god in his physical form - he was. His godhood was a prerequisite for his ascension. When Amado speaks about him as a god and his abilities, he is shown in his physical body on a normal planet, not as a higher dimensional existence. We are never shown higher dimensional Shibai (we can speculate that the being that was shown when Isshikis soul spoke to Code is him since theres a strong resemblance to Shibai’s physical body, but its not confirmed).

The people that say that Shibai should get full Omnipotence scaling in his physical body are probably correct. He has Omnipotence, hes a god and hes an Otsutsuki, which are the requirements for controlling the ability. Even Eida is probably capable of using Omnipotence on the scale of Narutos entire cosmos since the wave she sent out travelled from Earth even to other dimensions like the one that Code is in. She just cant consciously use the ability.
Click to expand...
This is still a semantical issue. Shibai will still have two keys. Pre godhood and post godhood. Full Omnipotence will only apply to one of them. If all you have an issue with is the naming of these keys, then make a CRT for it.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
This is still a semantical issue. Shibai will still have two keys. Pre godhood and post godhood. Full Omnipotence will only apply to one of them. If all you have an issue with is the naming of these keys, then make a CRT for it.
Click to expand...
About the naming, thats fair, I was just explaining how I see it. As for full Omnipotence applying to only one of the keys, I am not sure I agree since theres strong evidence that it should apply to his corporeal form too, but we should probably wait for more info.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
This is still a semantical issue. Shibai will still have two keys. Pre godhood and post godhood. Full Omnipotence will only apply to one of them. If all you have an issue with is the naming of these keys, then make a CRT for it.
Click to expand...
Yeah. But, we don't know Shibai's feats pre-godhood. Every feat introduced to us was when he achieved godhood both in Mortal (3D) and Immortal (4D) form.

In SBD, Mortal Key would likely be used more often, so he has to retain the full potency of Omnipotence (low 2c), even if his stats are 4b.

He should also get Type 9 Immortality as well - Transcendence Immortality, on the Transcendence/Immortality Key.

We should not be scared to do what's right.
 
Last edited:
Kayzz said:
Yeah. But, we don't know Shibai's feats pre-godhood. Every feat introduced to us was when he achieved godhood both in Mortal (3D) and Immortal (4D) form.

In SBD, Mortal Key would likely be used more often, so he has to retain the full potency of Omnipotence (low 2c), even if his stats are 4b.

He should also get Type 9 Immortality as well - Transcendence Immortality, on the Transcendence/Immortality Key.

We should not be scared to do what's right.
Click to expand...
Thats the thing: some people here dont think he was ever a god in his 3d form. They think it was a pre-god state and that he immediately and forcibly "died" and became higher dimensional upon eating the last chakra fruit that made him achieve godhood. This makes no sense to me based on Amados description of him.
 
lolgutwo said:
About the naming, thats fair, I was just explaining how I see it. As for full Omnipotence applying to only one of the keys, I am not sure I agree since theres strong evidence that it should apply to his corporeal form too, but we should probably wait for more info.
Click to expand...
My guy, if the distinction is between godhood and pre godhood, then corporeality has no part to play here.
Key 1: Pre godhood 4B
Key 2: God form L2C with Omnipotence
Kayzz said:
Yeah. But, we don't know Shibai's feats pre-godhood. Every feat introduced to us was when he achieved godhood both in Mortal (3D) and Immortal (4D) form.

In SBD, Mortal Key would likely be used more often, so he has to retain the full potency of Omnipotence (low 2c), even if his stats are 4b.

He should also get Type 9 Immortality as well - Transcendence Immortality, on the Transcendence/Immortality Key.

We should not be scared to do what's right.
Click to expand...
Have you never actually read Shibai's page? He isn't 4B because he has feats. His pre godhood is currently 4B without any feats.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
My guy, if the distinction is between godhood and pre godhood, then corporeality has no part to play here.
Key 1: Pre godhood 4B
Key 2: God form L2C with Omnipotence

Have you never actually read Shibai's page? He isn't 4B because he has feats. His pre godhood is currently 4B without any feats.
Click to expand...
If that's the case, then the wording should change to Pre-Godhood and Godhood, to be clearer. Because Transcendence seems like his higher dimensional state, based on his description.

However, for clarity, it should be:

Key 1: Mortal (Pre-Godhood) - 4B
Key 2: Mortal (Godhood) - Low 2C
Key 3: Transcendence (Godhood) - Low 2C
 
Last edited:
I suggest removing the Pre-Godhood Key, as it’s practically redundant he wouldn’t have access to any of his Shinjutsu abilities at that stage as we can’t deduce exactly when he got each one. All available information about his Shinjutsu comes from his Godhood form, as described by Amado. Additionally, expect a few upcoming changes to his profile he’ll be gaining Immortality Type 9 as well.
 
Samlex1234 said:
I suggest removing the Pre-Godhood Key, as it’s practically redundant he wouldn’t have access to any of his Shinjutsu abilities at that stage as we can’t deduce exactly when he got each one. All available information about his Shinjutsu comes from his Godhood form, as described by Amado.
Click to expand...
I disagree. All shinjutsu abilities we've seen have been gathered from his corpse which means his living body did possess them and he didn't just get them in his god form.

Unless you're saying he became a god before even ascending beyond his physical body
 
How would Shibai have Type 9 Immortality? It’s essentially for characters with avatars or for characters for example who’s bodies and spirit are in like separate planes of existence?
 
DavidTPPM said:
Unless you're saying he became a god before even ascending beyond his physical body
Click to expand...
Exactly he evolved into an HDE and then discarded his body later on. Hence where he had every single Shinjustu and getting implanted with his cells caused some Kara member to awaken some, including the Shinjustu of all Shinjustu Omnipotence.

Logically he has two keys
Incorporeal
Physical
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
How would Shibai have Type 9 Immortality? It’s essentially for characters with avatars or for characters for example who’s bodies and spirit are in like separate planes of existence?
Click to expand...
I don't think you need two bodies to get Type 9 Immortality.

You just need to show you can interact with the material world while maintaining a body or existence in a separate plane of existence that isn't affected by mortality.

Shibai may not get it for now since he is considered inactive in the verse. But tbf, everything suggest he can still interact with the world.
 
Last edited:
So are we ever going to get profiles/calcs for any of the feats in the Ultimate Ninja 1-5 games that are far more impressive than those that were shown in the storm series when it comes to the like of the side cast?

UN Shino
UN Ino
UN Sakura
UN Neji
UN Tenten
UN Kiba
UN Lee
UN Shikamaru
UN Choji
UN Kabuto
UN Tsunade
UN Orochimaru
 
Abysswalker2126 said:
So are we ever going to get profiles/calcs for any of the feats in the Ultimate Ninja 1-5 games that are far more impressive than those that were shown in the storm series when it comes to the like of the side cast?

UN Shino
UN Ino
UN Sakura
UN Neji
UN Tenten
UN Kiba
UN Lee
UN Shikamaru
UN Choji
UN Kabuto
UN Tsunade
UN Orochimaru
Click to expand...
Do you have any examples of feats like that?
 
HelloThere1089 said:
I disagree with giving 2 keys to his post Godhood form. What's the point of having an entire key where the only thing different is HDE? It should be pre- and post godhood and that's it.
Click to expand...
Brother 😭😭 You didn't read my replies?
There is no “pre-godhood” key for Shibai that we can meaningfully quantify. Even if we try to define a key for him before his final chakra fruit, we cannot assign any specific Shinjutsu to that stage because we have no information on when each ability was obtained. For example, consider Omnipotence the Shinjutsu of all Shinjutsu. Did Shibai acquire Omnipotence before consuming the final fruit and completing his evolution, or after? The manga does not tell us.

Therefore, we cannot accurately divide his abilities into a pre- and post-godhood set.
Both keys should share the same Higher-Dimensional Existence.
The only difference between the two keys lies in their ontological state:
  • one represents his physical form,
  • the other represents his non-physical (incorporeal) existence

A good comparison is Hagoromo:

he had a physical, living form, and later an incorporeal, nonphysical spiritual form that appeared to Naruto and Sasuke.

The difference is that Shibai did not die. Instead, upon completing his evolution, he ascended to a higher-dimensional mode of being and transcended the concept of death itself while still possessing a physical body, that is why he didn't need karma again.

He discarded his body (discorporation) after his evolution was complete not before.
His true essence already existed non-physically.


Transcendental Immortality:

A character whose true self exists independently of the plane where they can be killed.

In fact, his physical key already qualifies for this:
even before abandoning his body, his true consciousness existed on a higher plane of existence, independent of the physical body he later discarded. I think a similar character would be Mori Dan.
 
Samlex. You should really try to read other people's posts before saying they didn't yours. The difference between pre and post godhood Shibai is bigger and more meaningful than physical and non physical Shibai. The latter are both literally the same profiles with very few changes. While pre godhood Shibai will have completely different stats regardless of the amount of Shinjutsu he possessed. Shibai doesn't even need Shinjutsu to have a key in the first place. Comparing Shibai to Hagoromo is actually hilarious because not only does spirit Hags have so many extra p&a, his stats are also all different with separate justifications.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Samlex. You should really try to read other people's posts before saying they didn't write yours. The difference between pre and post godhood Shibai is bigger and more meaningful than physical and non physical Shibai. The latter are both literally the same profiles with very few changes. While pre godhood Shibai will have completely different stats regardless of the amount of Shinjutsu he possessed. Shibai doesn't even need Shinjutsu to have a key in the first place. Comparing Shibai to Hagoromo is actually hilarious because not only does spirit Hags have so many extra p&a, his stats are also all different with separate justifications.
Click to expand...
I wasn't comparing the stats of both forms of Hago I was using it as an example to draw a conclusion on the “Forms”, hence why I clarified that unlike Hagoromo Shibai didn't die and I brought up Mori Dan. For the pre godhood key, it could work sure just that the only granted Hax would be the otutsuki physiology and Byakugan, when he got the Rinnegan and Kokugan is unknown. Physical form works for shibai because it is a key that can be interacted with.


For my Physical and Non physical argument this is where I got it from. ( The manga itself)


“On top of that, I have a question. “Why is there a corpse?”
(遺体 = itai = corpse/remains of a body)
“With a Kāma, one should be able to reincarnate,
so they should be able to live forever…”
“Or… was Shibai killed by someone?”


“For example after undergoing evolution many times, he sublimated into a higher-dimensional existence that no longer required a physical body.
“If a body is unnecessary,
Then there is no need for ‘reincarnation,’
and no need for a ‘vessel’ either.”
“In other words, the hypothesis is that
Shibai intentionally discarded his physical body.”



…I see…Well… If we assume that a ‘god’
is a flawless, perfect being, it doesn’t not sound like some crazy nonsense story… But that hypothesis actually makes a lot more sense to me.”
 
Samlex1234 said:
I brought up Mori Dan.
Click to expand...
Excuse me
huh-confused.gif
 
what would make it stronger though? a living weapon sounds cool, but how exactly is that going to make it stronger, and who's life force is it going to use?
 
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