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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Ghostimuscrime said:
I doubt keeping up with someone for a little while without them really explicitly dealing catastrophic levels of damage is enough grounds for scaling to them

The wiki treats that feat as good enough to be above base momo which is perfect for Naruto because he isn’t totally on fused momo’s level but he’s not fully below base momo either

I see it as
Base naruto~Base Momo
Half power Kurama mode six paths yada yada>~fused momo
Click to expand...
that feat is an outlier, if base naruto is relative to fused momoshiki then spsm naruto should one shot him, but that doesn't happen, narratively it makes sense that they're close in their fp meaning that base naruto shouldn't really scale to fused momo. u can also argue that fused momo was holding back in the beginning but that's a little goofy argument maybe.
 
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NeoKingOfLight said:
Are Kawaki’s rod speeds equal to Jigen & Isshiki’s, despite no “actual” Confirmation he is on par with them?
Click to expand...
they are slower, borushiki could stop them while sasuke who is easily above borushiki and he has rinnegan and 3t sharingan cannot even fully track them when he's confronting jigen/isshiki.
 
Fugoshikii said:
they are slower, borushiki could stop them while sasuke who is easily above borushiki and he has rinnegan and 3t sharingan cannot even fully track them when he's confronting jigen/isshiki.
Click to expand...
Tbf that's pre-TS Kawaki who only had 2-3 triangles while current Kawaki has the full dojutsu
 
DavidTPPM said:
Tbf that's pre-TS Kawaki who only had 2-3 triangles while current Kawaki has the full dojutsu
Click to expand...
there is still no reason to believe that he has the same level of dojutsu as isshiki, having the same eye with the same tomoes or whatever doesn't mean anything, shippuden already established that with the sharingan.
 
Fugoshikii said:
there is still no reason to believe that he has the same level of dojutsu as isshiki, having the same eye with the same tomoes or whatever doesn't mean anything, shippuden already established that with the sharingan.
Click to expand...
Yeah but Kawakis dojutsu literally comes straight from Isshikis genes. Like not even in the way Sarada has a sharingan from Sasuke but literally by Kawaki being a pseudo-Isshiki
 
DavidTPPM said:
Yeah but Kawakis dojutsu literally comes straight from Isshikis genes. Like not even in the way Sarada has a sharingan from Sasuke but literally by Kawaki being a pseudo-Isshiki
Click to expand...
that's basically the same thing more or less, anyway we know that the speed is dependent on who's using them since naruto and sasuke could've react to jigen's rods in multiple occasions while they couldn't do shit agains isshiki's rods, sasuke says that he's barely even able to track them
 
Fugoshikii said:
that's basically the same thing more or less, anyway we know that the speed is dependent on who's using them since naruto and sasuke could've react to jigen's rods in multiple occasions while they couldn't do shit agains isshiki's rods, sasuke says that he's barely even able to track them
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Yeah but the core difference is that Isshiki was actually using his eyeball for it while Jigen was using idek what. Meanwhile Kawaki is straight up 80ish % identical to Isshiki and has the whole eyeball.

Btw I'm not saying that must mean their rods are of the same speed, I'm just saying that using pre-TS Kawakis anti feats for TBV Kawaki doesn't make sense
 
DavidTPPM said:
Yeah but the core difference is that Isshiki was actually using his eyeball for it while Jigen was using idek what. Meanwhile Kawaki is straight up 80ish % identical to Isshiki and has the whole eyeball.

Btw I'm not saying that must mean their rods are of the same speed, I'm just saying that using pre-TS Kawakis anti feats for TBV Kawaki doesn't make sense
Click to expand...
i don't understand what you're trying to establish here, the difference between jigen's rods and isshiki's should be clear, idk
 
Based on Kawaki dogging out Code, where do you see him in relation to Naruto & Sasuke?
  1. Naruto was on par with Delta but was holding back to keep her alive.
  2. Code is > Delta (To an Unquantifiable Degree)
  3. Kawaki wasn’t holding back & had Killing Intent.
Personally, based on Naruto & Sasuke being on par with Fused Momoshiki, i’d think it’s fair to assert: Borushiki ~ Kv2 Kawaki ~ SPSM Naruto ~ Rinnegan Sasuke.
 
What are some major AP feats that are the significant milestones for the verse? If you don't get what I mean, for example, the ratings for Low 5-B is rooted in Toneri moving the moon.
 
Fugoshikii said:
I would like to know why Urashiki got downgraded so badly.
Click to expand...
All Part 2 Naruto characters scale above star level and FTL+++++++++++ thanks to tha fraud
tumblr_lmkxllCqbw1qe1mubo1_500.gif
 
Ar1216789 said:
What are some major AP feats that are the significant milestones for the verse? If you don't get what I mean, for example, the ratings for Low 5-B is rooted in Toneri moving the moon.
Click to expand...
In Order (Though Note some things are later recontextualized by Later feats & down scaling):

Naruto/Shippuden:
  1. Sasuke knocking out the Kaiju Bear.
  2. Orochimaru Snake Summoning’s KE.
  3. Jirobo palming Giant Choji.
  4. 4 Tails Naruto Transformation Explosion.
  5. 4 Tails Naruto TBB.
  6. Kirin Uchiha Hideout Destruction.
  7. 6 Tails Naruto TBB.
  8. 3TM Sasuke Chidori piercing Raikage’s Chakra Cloak.
  9. V2 Raikage’s AP (Only Listing because it’s relevant based on the DB putting him over KB).
  10. Ittan’s Earth Release.
  11. Kitsuchi’s Earth Release.
  12. Destruction of Nagato’s CT.
  13. Jinchuriki matching/hurting KCM Naruto.
  14. Tengai Shinsei
  15. V2 6 Tails hurting Gyuuki.
  16. 5 TBB Explosions.
  17. Combined TBB Explosion.
  18. PS destroying Tengai Shinsei Meteor and Cutting Mountain Tops.
  19. Kurama & KB combined TBB.
  20. First Form Juubi Laser.
  21. 2nd Form Juubi TBB Guitar Picks.
  22. Tenpenchi
  23. 3rd Form Juubi Charged TBB.
  24. Juubito physically breaking Hashirama’s seal.
  25. Juubito Chakra Arms popping the Hokage’s Barrier.
  26. Father-Son Rasengan shredding the Chakra Arms.
  27. Juubito’s Quad-TBB.
  28. BSM/CMSusanoo AP.
  29. Night Guy.
  30. Six Paths Madara/SPSM Naruto Physical AP.
  31. Six Paths Madara’s CT Spam.
  32. Six Paths Madara’s Deep Forest Emergence.
  33. Everything Kaguya Did.
  34. Six-Paths Chibaku Tensei (Old & New).
The Last:
  1. Toneri’s TK
  2. Naruto’s Chakra blasting a hole in the moon.
  3. Toneri’s Tornado.
  4. Naruto breaking Toneri’s TSB Barrier.
  5. GWRE
  6. Naruto’s CES Punch.
Unfortunately, I don't have the energy to go through Boruto rn as this by itself took me an about hour.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
Unfortunately, I don't have the energy to go through Boruto rn as this by itself took me an about hour.
Click to expand...
Dw bro, I got you.
Boruto NNG/TBV:
  1. Boruto doing minor damage to a tree (9-C)
  2. Sasuke fighting a dinosaur (9-B)
  3. Momoshiki shocking Code with his power by destroying a few trees (8-C)
  4. Isshiki kicking Naruto through multiple buildings (8-B)
  5. Borutos Uzuhiko creating a magnitude 1 planetary earthquake (7-B)
I think that should be the most important stuff 🔥
 
DavidTPPM said:
Dw bro, I got you.
Boruto NNG/TBV:
  1. Boruto doing minor damage to a tree (9-C)
  2. Sasuke fighting a dinosaur (9-B)
  3. Momoshiki shocking Code with his power by destroying a few trees (8-C)
  4. Isshiki kicking Naruto through multiple buildings (8-B)
  5. Borutos Uzuhiko creating a magnitude 1 planetary earthquake (7-B)
I think that should be the most important stuff 🔥
Click to expand...
Wake up to reality
naruto-infinite-tsukuyomi-victims-1024x575.jpeg
 
I forgot about the bear calc

Thought the kids still were scaling to the fire ball stuff and didn’t get removed despite ues removal

Good physical Feat
 
DavidTPPM said:
I mean okay but that works on quite a lot of assumptions.
Like for example you say different chakra can have different potency but how do we know it doesn't also have different properties?
Click to expand...
If it's a special form like LCM which specifically uses lightning to enhance the neurotransmitters then sure, but senjutsu is just portrayed as a holistically super strong chakra that enhances all your ninjutsu, taijutsu, and genjutsu, the only noted emphasis being reaction speed cause of the whole sensing aspect of the form.
DavidTPPM said:
Like sage mode for example has MUCH better durability amping feats and statements than speed or AP. And we see different chakras grant different hax like danger sensing, regeneration, poison/corrosion, etc.

Plus the very present concept of 1 stat merchant really makes this even more unlikely. If chakra was equally tied to all stats why can the 4th Raikage be faster and yet weaker than Tsunade for example? Most logical explanation would be that Byakugou amps AP more than speed and/or lightning cloak amps speed more than AP, but that again throws off the whole equal amp thing.
Click to expand...
That'd just mean it equally amps the user from what their base ratio of stats is. This reminds me of the argument that chakra volume isn't tied to stats because Kid Naruto is weak; chakra volume =/= stats, but same chakra control and higher chakra volume = higher stats (so basically I'm saying that chakra =/= stats, but chakra x base specialization = stats).
DavidTPPM said:
It really isn't that simple. Many other factors like skill and combat style heavily affect the outcome.

Like here for example, Naruto is reacting to Pain but he's still forced fully on the defensive. He seems to be forced into backing away and only defends without any real chance to counter attack. On top of that Naruto is essentially a master martial artist while Pain has no real taijutsu skill feats and is more so a hax merchant.

So while the gap definitely isn't massive, there is still room for a stat difference.
Click to expand...
It's not like he's doing some fancy maneuverer such as diverting the path of Pain's movements so he stumbles away giving Naruto extra time, he's simply blocking. Nothing special. And he's not counterattacking cause he's focusing on getting back into Sage Mode at the moment.
DavidTPPM said:
Yes, definitely. Because the "inconsistency" here would be Kishimoto drawing Narutos foot a few centimeters too close to Pains head probably purely for the cool-factor
Click to expand...
More than a few, quite significantly more in fact
main-qimg-c71a9e4fadff18578c72b4a50db06cc1

DavidTPPM said:
while the headcanon "inverse explanation" is asserting an insane reaction speed multiplier to the entire verse.
Click to expand...
It's not headcanon, it's literally just the manga
DavidTPPM said:
And even if you want to completely get rid of the whole "Kishimoto drew the kick a bit too close" thing it wouldn't help your case. It would just mean Pain did what you're saying he did but instead of having a ridiculous 20x reaction speed he just has an unquantifiable reaction speed. Still giving us the conclusion that sage mode just isn't a big speed amp and Pain might have a slightly higher reaction speed.
Click to expand...
This seems like a bit of an arbitrary line to draw on when it becomes ridiculous
 
I think it's 10x for speed and strength both but with CM only


I'd consider sage mode the same amp if someone could reason that the CM is inherently multiplicative (SM is objectively multiplicative and there's no arguing around that) but for CM seeing how Sasuke wishes to kill itachi but doesnt start with the CM felt weird, as though he doesnt consider it a legitimate amp since its sasukes life goal to end itachi

Makes me think it might be additive
 
Iirc, last I checked, SM wasn’t accepted as a Multiplier yet on the wiki, right? And 20x seems like a huge stretch tbh… Where does it come from again?
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
why not start out the fight with it? and just blitz the guy
Click to expand...
Why waste chakra if he didn't know it was necessary yet
NeoKingOfLight said:
Iirc, last I checked, SM wasn’t accepted as a Multiplier yet on the wiki, right? And 20x seems like a huge stretch tbh… Where does it come from again?
Click to expand...
あの右目ヤローが出てきてただでさえ絶望的なのにチャクラが数十倍に上がっただと･･･
main-qimg-3ff12f80dc1f466dea83f08a05466f11
 
he barely has feats against the top tiers

Lost to a nerfed Gaara/Chojuro. Nerfed per his own admission

His wins against top tiers has a lot of asterisks

1. Toneri didn't have the tenseigan. Ergo, scales nowhere

2. Sasuke was nerfed from dimension hopping

3. Gaara was nerfed from protecting Shukaku

4. Sasuke (again) was nerfed during the entire time-slip arc as the time traveling artefact drained his chakra

That's all his "feats"

His lower tiered feats are more consistent

1. One-shot Sage mitsuki (there's an asterisk there but irrelevant for now)

2. Defeated Jiraiya

3. Superior to Boruto x Shinki

4. Superior to kid Naruto

5. No-sold an attack from shukaku

All of the above are consistently tier 6, ergo, where he scales to
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again
Urashiki being a far younger, inexperienced Otsutsuki would've made his arcs a lot more tolerable
It's a fact that he's lower ranked than Kinshiki who is the weakest out of the main Otsutsuki in Boruto
His main thing is information gathering so he's not a straight up fighter but he could still keep his countless escape options he has right now and his chakra stealing pole while being weaker than the Kage but utilising their level of strength by stealing from them
Him being a brat would also remove the jobbing aspect of his character that makes scaling him such a pain cause he's always trolling with Boruto but still gets injured and but is able to keep that same trolling attitude and handle the adults somewhat iirc
 
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