Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[MinatoSparkle]

King Piccolo Saga

Ginyu Saga

Frieza Saga

Frieza Saga

You think Frieza Saga Goku beats Shibai?

 

[SlendVeny]

You think Frieza Saga Goku beats Shibai?

God damnit, I ******* forgor

BoG/GotU Saga, maybe ToP/US Saga

 

[MinatoSparkle]

God damnit, I ******* forgor

BoG/GotU Saga, maybe ToP/US Saga

What's GotU

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

which version of Goku do you think is needed to solo each sub series of the naruto verse?

Round 1: Naruto (part 1)
Round 2: Shippuden
Round 3: Next Generations
Round 4: Two Blue Vortex

Theres two versions of these

Version 1: the characters that are present in the story until the final chapter, deceased MIA for the entire series characters are not counted, so Minato wouldnt be there for part 1 and Shibai wouldnt for Two Blue

Version 2: past and present as long as they have been mentioned and their feats either shown or stated. Minato would count for part 1 but only the feats that are highlighted so Gaiden and like the early lore.

since its personal scaling thennnnn



Round 1 : Start of Z Goku (Not a soul scales to Roshi's moon busting feat, Aside that the verse scales around city-mountainish which is exactly where kid naruto is at rn and their speeds are actually dookie so start of z it is)
Round 2 : Super Saiyan God Goku (you know why) (I could argue higher forms of Goku is needed with some ratty stuff tho)
Round 3 : No canon version of Goku survives this (Smurf Tax)
Round 4 : Same as previous

 

[SlendVeny]

What's GotU

Gods of the Universe Saga

This article is about the Dragon Ball Z version of this saga. For the Dragon Ball Super version, see Gods of the Universe Saga (disambiguation). The Gods of the Universe Saga (宇宙うちゅうの神々かみがみ編へん, Uchū no Kamigami Hen, lit. "Gods of the Universe Arc) is the story arc following the Kid Buu Saga.[1]...

dragonball.fandom.com

I forgot the official name was Beerus Saga

 

[MinatoSparkle]

since its personal scaling thennnnn



Round 1 : Start of Z Goku (Not a soul scales to Roshi's moon busting feat, Aside that the verse scales around city-mountainish which is exactly where kid naruto is at rn and their speeds are actually dookie so start of z it is)

EoDB Goku and Piccolo's PLs aren't that far off from their BoZ counterparts. Also it's not like the Kamehameha is unfathomably superior to the user, even at full power. Also the Kamehameha that 23rd Budokai Goku hit Piccolo with is at least Moon level.

Round 2 : Super Saiyan God Goku (you know why) (I could argue higher forms of Goku is needed with some ratty stuff tho)

Why >Buu Saga Goku?

 

[KingogKings777]

You must be getting some really high dopamine from hating naruto series.

Come back to me when any Naruto character breaks a manga panel

 

[KingogKings777]

How do you even come to this conclusion?

Breaking the manga panel >>> All feats so far in Boruto/Naruto manga

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Breaking the manga panel >>> All feats so far in Boruto/Naruto manga

Ah

 

[KingogKings777]

Ah

What else would have been my reason?

 

[HelloThere1089]

Drugs

 

[KingogKings777]

Drugs

Drugs you say

 

[Nierre]

Drugs you say

W movie

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

So, White Mask Obito is hard-capped by BM Naruto, correct? Despite Minato’s statement:

1. BM Naruto can no sell his Fire Style.
2. BM Naruto is Physically superior to his Mokuton.
3. BM Naruto is physically superior to his physicals.
4. BM Naruto Ignored his Rinnegan Sealing Chains.

The only thing Obito had on Naruto was the ability to react to him. And we all agree that White Mask Obito is the strongest version of him w/o being a JJ.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

So, White Mask Obito is hard-capped by BM Naruto, correct? Despite Minato’s statement:

1. BM Naruto can no sell his Fire Style.
2. BM Naruto is Physically superior to his Mokuton.

Is still tagged and restrained temporarily

1. BM Naruto is physically superior to his physicals.

Sure in AP

1. BM Naruto Ignored his Rinnegan Sealing Chains.

The only thing Obito had on Naruto was the ability to react to him. And we all agree that White Mask Obito is the strongest version of him w/o being a JJ.

And the ability to intercept him

Not to mention that Obito is more haxed and could stall out KCM2 Naruto in a 1v1

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Obito is kind of damn near everyone in Naruto's hard counter, especially in White Mask.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Not my goat Peak EMS Sasuke

 

[Samlex1234]

I think we’re going to get some Kawaki motion with him showing up to the Ryu fight. I think the fight doesn’t end in this chapter but rather the cliffhanger will be Limitless Kawaki & Delta showing up to the battlefield and Aura Farming like the Kage vs Madara.

How do you think they arrive? By flight or Creating a portal

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

EoDB Goku and Piccolo's PLs aren't that far off from their BoZ counterparts. Also it's not like the Kamehameha is unfathomably superior to the user, even at full power. Also the Kamehameha that 23rd Budokai Goku hit Piccolo with is at least Moon level.

Why >Buu Saga Goku?

close PLs =/= relative, they're not linear like that

Kamehameha's whole gimmick is that its far beyond anything the user can do with their physicals, goku goes from being unable to break out of a locked space to blasting it open with kamehameha, and roshis one was even greater because he had to use kamehameha+Body Buff Amp+Max Power, all three far greater than physicals amps applied to roshi allowed him to bust the moon, goku hasnt nearly entered two of those stages

but he should be able to in theory use the moon busting attack if he did all the stuff roshi did, buuuuut he gets beat up before he tries that stuff lol

---

isnt buu saga like higher into 4B? even if you employed toei canon it'd only bring you to 4A lol

 

[MinatoSparkle]

close PLs =/= relative, they're not linear like that

Sure, but Piccolo withstood Goku's Super Kamehameha which has a power level of 910, >>BoZ Goku and Piccolo's physicals

Kamehameha's whole gimmick is that its far beyond anything the user can do with their physicals, goku goes from being unable to break out of a locked space to blasting it open with kamehameha,

Yes, but it doesn't allow characters to instantly one shot their opponent most of the time

and roshis one was even greater because he had to use kamehameha+Body Buff Amp+Max Power, all three far greater than physicals amps applied to roshi allowed him to bust the moon, goku hasnt nearly entered two of those stages

but he should be able to in theory use the moon busting attack if he did all the stuff roshi did, buuuuut he gets beat up before he tries that stuff lol

23rd BK Goku is stronger than body buff amp + max power Roshi by a LOT so those are irrelevant when comparing their Kamehamehas

isnt buu saga like higher into 4B? even if you employed toei canon it'd only bring you to 4A lol

Do you have Shippuden God Tiers at like 3-A to 2-C?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Sure, but Piccolo withstood Goku's Super Kamehameha which has a power level of 910, >>BoZ Goku and Piccolo's physicals

whats their BOZ PL?

Yes, but it doesn't allow characters to instantly one shot their opponent most of the time

it does actually, maybe not instantly but you can def charge stuff up until youre ready to one shot the other person

23rd BK Goku is stronger than body buff amp + max power Roshi by a LOT so those are irrelevant when comparing their Kamehamehas

Proof? nothing suggests a soul went through as many layers of super high amps as Roshi did pre-z

the statements only support x's base > y's base (or overall combat ability)

Do you have Shippuden God Tiers at like 3-A to 2-C?

 

[KingogKings777]

W movie

W take

 

[MinatoSparkle]

whats their BOZ PL?

it does actually, maybe not instantly but you can def charge stuff up until youre ready to one shot the other person

It varies, but it's rarely the case as far as I recall

Proof? nothing suggests a soul went through as many layers of super high amps as Roshi did pre-z

the statements only support x's base > y's base (or overall combat ability)

Even if Roshi had gone full power against Tien, he "probably" would've lost, suggesting Tien's relative at bare minimum to amped Roshi

This was Goku's Pain Arc, along with the King Piccolo Saga, where he very clearly became just outright superior to Roshi.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Is still tagged and restrained temporarily

Well as far as being tagged goes, yeah, Reaction would allow for that. And Naruto still flexes out of it after delivering a head butt that sends him flying back.

Sure in AP

Kinda addressed it above.

And the ability to intercept him

Again, reaction would allow for this, no?

Not to mention that Obito is more haxed and could stall out KCM2 Naruto in a 1v1

Running the Clock doesn’t change the above factors?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

How do you think they arrive? By flight or Creating a portal

Portal for-sure.

 

[karo_senpaii]

which version of Goku do you think is needed to solo each sub series of the naruto verse?

Round 1: Naruto (part 1)
Round 2: Shippuden
Round 3: Next Generations
Round 4: Two Blue Vortex

Theres two versions of these

Version 1: the characters that are present in the story until the final chapter, deceased MIA for the entire series characters are not counted, so Minato wouldnt be there for part 1 and Shibai wouldnt for Two Blue

Version 2: past and present as long as they have been mentioned and their feats either shown or stated. Minato would count for part 1 but only the feats that are highlighted so Gaiden and like the early lore.

so i'm doing version 2.

Round 1: i think it would take till around early saiyan saga for him to win. It's not in character for goku to just instantly blow up the planet. He'd rather fight them on his own and so people like kakashi or itachi could easily get him into genjutsu for forms prior due to them having similar speeds to BOZ goku. But by saiya saga he could easily blitz them

Round 2: probably cell saga. He needs that overwhelming speed to win coz putting down the six path family and their hax require such. A lot of stuff in kaguya arsenal can one shot him, same for madara, hagoromo or naruto. Not to mention the several people who can still put him under genjutsu.

Round 3: I'm not counting shibai till round 4 but i'm not seeing goku taking this at all. Forget AP, in canon daemon always starts of like on top of eida or in her lap or just with her 100% of the time. So like it would just be eida and daemon vs goku and all his attacks ends up reflecting everytime. Mind you Ada or daemon can't see these attacks so like it's either a stalemate or omnipotence kicks in at some point and mind ***** him

Edit: Goku might need a higher form than cell saga because of kaguya dimension switching, It all depends io speed

Round 4: Yeah shibai slaps

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Looks like the edo tensei jutsu was the reason they did not get trap in IT

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Question, wasn’t kaguya going to destroy and recreate her dimension. So wouldn’t that mean she was going to destroy all her dimensions and recreate them since she was nuking the main dimension that connects to all her other dimensions to reach nard one? Or was it specified that only that one dimension is to be destroyed and recreate.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Question, wasn’t kaguya going to destroy and recreate her dimension. So wouldn’t that mean she was going to destroy all her dimensions and recreate them since she was nuking the main dimension that connects to all her other dimensions to reach nard one? Or was it specified that only that one dimension is to be destroyed and recreate.

Depends. We know she wanted to destroy her root dimension and recreate it. And we know all other dimensions are connected to it or sumn. But we don't know if the other dimensions would be affected by the destruction. And besides it would become so much higher in terms of AP.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Depends. We know she wanted to destroy her root dimension and recreate it. And we know all other dimensions are connected to it or sumn. But we don't know if the other dimensions would be affected by the destruction. And besides it would become so much higher in terms of AP.

Didn’t she want to reach the nard dimension using ETSO, so she would have had to destroy her dimensional system to reach it?

 

[HelloThere1089]

Didn’t she want to reach the nard dimension using ETSO, so she would have had to destroy her dimensional system to reach it?

What? When? Wasn't that just an interpretation of the storm games?

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

What? When? Wasn't that just an interpretation of the storm games?

If so, my bad.

 

[Samlex1234]

Question, wasn’t kaguya going to destroy and recreate her dimension. So wouldn’t that mean she was going to destroy all her dimensions and recreate them since she was nuking the main dimension that connects to all her other dimensions to reach nard one? Or was it specified that only that one dimension is to be destroyed and recreate.

You can make that argument for sure, since the primordial space is directly connected to the other spaces. We used to have that interpretation on the wiki before.

Didn’t she want to reach the nard dimension using ETSO, so she would have had to destroy her dimensional system to reach it?

So many narrative implications with this, she needs the earth to replant the god-tree again.

 

[Samlex1234]

I really hope Ikemoto gives Kawaki some new abilities. The cube summoning is getting stale, especially since we still don’t have a proper explanation of its effects beyond sensory blocking. He needs something more dynamic.

 

[ssgengar]

I wanna see him awaken a Shinjutsu technique

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Well as far as being tagged goes, yeah, Reaction would allow for that. And Naruto still flexes out of it after delivering a head butt that sends him flying back.

Kinda addressed it above.

Again, reaction would allow for this, no?

Why are you limiting to just reaction? It's his combat speed too

Running the Clock doesn’t change the above factors?

Stamina is a factor in combat ability

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Why are you limiting to just reaction? It's his combat speed too

Bc they never mixed it up for that to be brought up. This is literally every BM Naruto/Obito Reaction from a speed standpoint:

1. Instance 1
2. Instance 2 (And Naruto is Clearly trying to Combo w/ Kakashi)
3. Instance 3
4. Instance 4
5. Instance 5
6. Instance 6
7. Instance 7
8. Instance 8
9. Instance 9

These are all “Reaction Speed” Feats from Obito reacting to Naruto, which allows single movements or something like that, iirc. The closest thing was his Mokuton Usage, but he was attacking first and Naruto was reacting.

Every time Obito interacted with BM Naruto in a speed setting, he was reacting, Blitzed or Caught Off Guard. Never actually keeping up in combat speed.

Stamina is a factor in combat ability

Well yeah, but that aspect wasn’t called into question.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bc they never mixed it up for that to be brought up. This is literally every BM Naruto/Obito Reaction from a speed standpoint:

1. Instance 1
2. Instance 2 (And Naruto is Clearly trying to Combo w/ Kakashi)
3. Instance 3
4. Instance 4
5. Instance 5
6. Instance 6
7. Instance 7
8. Instance 8
9. Instance 9

There's also Obito catching Naruto throwing Kakashi at him but you can argue Naruto held back and that's reaction speed anyways so wtv

These are all “Reaction Speed” Feats from Obito reacting to Naruto, which allows single movements or something like that, iirc. The closest thing was his Mokuton Usage, but he was attacking first and Naruto was reacting.

The speed of his Mokuton/Kamui ejection isn't gonna change whether he's the aggressor or defender

Every time Obito interacted with BM Naruto in a speed setting, he was reacting, Blitzed or Caught Off Guard. Never actually keeping up in combat speed.

Intercepting and tagging someone mid attack is keeping up with their combat speed

Well yeah, but that aspect wasn’t called into question.

You said he's hard capped in general

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

The speed of his Mokuton/Kamui ejection isn't gonna change whether he's the aggressor or defender

Yeah, but that’s his Ninjutsu/Doujutsu speed. Not physicals.

Intercepting and tagging someone mid attack is keeping up with their combat speed

I mean… according to Reaction Speed section on the wiki, the same is equally valid for simply Reaction Speed. And given KCM1 Naruto can keep up with this Obito, is it not fair to label this as Reaction Speed? Otherwise it becomes inconsistent scaling: KCM1 Naruto ~ WM Obito ~ BM Naruto ~ KCM1 Naruto???

You said he's hard capped in general

Obito has the stamina to go rounds with Naruto, but nobody is gonna claim Obito has comparable stamina to Naruto.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah, but that’s his Ninjutsu/Doujutsu speed. Not physicals.

I'm talking about him holistically

I mean… according to Reaction Speed section on the wiki, the same is equally valid for simply Reaction Speed. And given KCM1 Naruto can keep up with this Obito, is it not fair to label this as Reaction Speed? Otherwise it becomes inconsistent scaling: KCM1 Naruto ~ WM Obito ~ BM Naruto ~ KCM1 Naruto???

My personal opinion is that Obito wasn't going all out against KCM1 Naruto given that outside of feats against KCM2 Naruto, Obito also has scaling to Kakashi who's ~Gated Guy>>Base Guy~KCM1 Naruto and to Minato who's ~KCM2, but if you want an inverse explanation, Obito pretty much always has the 3T Sharingan active against KCM1 Naruto, and fights KCM2 with the MS on.

Obito has the stamina to go rounds with Naruto, but nobody is gonna claim Obito has comparable stamina to Naruto.

He has better stamina than KCM2 Naruto.