Naruto Revision: General AP for Jounin Ranked Characters

[TheFinalOrder]

So, apparently this is becoming an issue. Some people want to disregard Rank in Naruto completely, which in and of itself is faulty as it goes against Context and Implication, which they are also trying to disregard by default here. That I cannot agree with.

So Today I am here to settle this debate once in for all!

Let's start with Context:

In Naruto, rank determines your overall skill and subsequiently ability as a ninja. Jounin are generally > Chunnin, whom are Generally > Genin. This is the standard in Naruto. Are there some expection, yes, and it's because of those acceptions, this entire hooplah about Rank in Naruto needing to be dismissed has been brought up. But again, you cannot dismiss Rank here without Dismissing Context.

Likewise, there is a middle rank between Jounin and Chunin, which is "Tokubetsu Jounin (Special Jounin)" . Special Jounin are basically Chunin level Ninja that excell in one area up to a Jounin's level. Initially we didn't put much stock in Naruto Databook stats, but just to give you a comparison between Kakashi's stats, BoShippuden Naruto's Stats and Special Jounin's stats to drive the point home (Note, the stats stopped being used after Naruto databook 3, which only went up to Jiraiya's Death and Itachi vs Sasuke, and they don't account Amps, just base forms):

Kakashi (Jounin):

• Ninjutsu: 5

• Taijutsu: 4.5

• Genjutsu: 4

• Intelligance: 5

• Strength: 3.5

• Speed: 4.5

• Stamina: 3

• Hand Seals: 5

Genma (Special Jounin):

• Ninjutsu: 4.5

• Taijutsu: 3

• Genjutsu: 3

• Intelligance: 3

• Strength: 3

• Speed: 3.5

• Stamina: 3

• Hand Seals: 4

Naruto (BoShippuden):

• Ninjutsu: 4

• Taijutsu: 3.5

• Genjutsu: 2

• Intelligance: 3

• Strength: 3.5

• Speed: 3.5

• Stamina: 5

• Hand Seals: 1.5

As you can see, BoShippuden Naruto is comparable to Gema, generally. While the stats are contradictory and shouldn't be used, it does show us, how Kishimoto views ninja and their rank. I would've liked to get the Databook page of Tokubetsu Jounin, but that's in the first databook, which apparently is not online like the latter editions.

Basically, Jounin > Tokubetsu Jonin >= Chunin > Genin (Generally). This is driven home in part 1 and throughout. I believe Jounin Level Ninja should be rated as:

• "At least 8-A, Possibly Higher"

Being Superior to Special Jounin overall through context and implication. In addition to scaling to At least 8-A, Jounin should also scale based on the Sound four stating they couldn't hold back in against 2 Jounin:




Note: That those two "Jonin" where Special Jounin, one of which is Genma from above. In addition to this, we have calced feats of Throw-Away Chunin characters like, Itta, who have feats and AP near comparable to Sound 4 in their 2nd states.

So, the Justification of Jounin Characters scaling to "At Least 8-A, Possibly Higher" would be simply put:

• Contextually, Jounin are above Tokubetsu Jounin, who in term are simply Chunin level Ninja, with a Joinin level stat in one or so areas.

• Sound 4 considered 2 Tokubetsu Jounin enough of a threat start a fight in their 1st Form Curse Mark states and fight (Off Panel) in their 2nd states with difficulty, stating that they would have died had they not used their 2nd states, despite the situation being a 2 v 4 scenario.

• Throw- Away Chunin characters are near 2nd State Curse Mark forms in AP with Calced feats.

This would be the standard based on Rank given context. The initial itial was that too many Characters where scaling to 7-C, simply based on rank and Shoddy scaling with no feats of such.With "At least 8-A. Possibly Higher" being the standard Jounin tier based on Rank given context of the manga, Characters should only scale to 7-C:

• If they have Feats

• If they have Solid Scaling

Thoughts?

 

[Mindovin]

https://narutoversity.wordpress.com/first-databook-character-files/

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

It makes sense. At least 8-A is okay. Scales to Gaara, Lee, and Neji.

What about chuunin? I guess baseline should be 8-B, while people like Mirai should be 8-A.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I think Haku should be Unknown.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Haku should be 8-B fully. I just checked his page and Sasuke's and they should be 8-B Physically as well as with Ninjutsu. Also, Sasuke's reasoning isn't sound for his Striking strength. He didn't force Haku to dodge his kick. He connected and drew Blood.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

The reasoning should be:

Haku:

• Striking: 8-B (Could Physically contend with Sasuke).

• Ninjutsu AP: 8-B (Ice Style is superior to Sasuke's Fire Style)

Sasuke:

• Striking: 8-B (drew Blood from Haku with a direct hit)

• Ninjutsu: 8-B (He has the calc already)

Note: Haku has 8-B Durability from Naruto's Kyuubi amped Punch which shattered his Ice Mirrors.

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree with this fully

 

[Rocker1189]

I agree too.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I agree as well, especially for Haku who I made like 2 threads for that just got ignored.

 

[Rocker1189]

I agree as well, especially for Haku who I made like 2 threads for that just got ignored.

RIP, your sacrifice would be remembered.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I honestly think Haku should scale to Prime-Kid Kakashi due to Kakashi admitting Haku was stronger than he is.

Obviously that doesnt apply to Zabuza arc Kakashi but it should be enough to let Haku at least scale to when he was a Kid.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

When did Kakashi admit that?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Right after Haku "killed" Zabuza in the forest when he fought T7 and dragged him to safety.

 

[Rocker1189]

I dont think Kkashi was admitting Haku to be stronger, I think he was just saying so in General.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

If we're to go that route, we would have to scale intail kyuubi state genin naruto and sasuke to kid Kakashi also.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I agree and partially disagree.

We have numerous lower rank characters that outperform higher ranked characters to a point that Rank should not determine your stats. Rank determing your stats is not consistent nor a safe bet since we have exceptions. It already disregards it

>So, the Justification of Jounin Characters scaling to "At Least 8-A, Possibly Higher"

What we should have is Possibly 8-A given that because they are of that rank they have a possibility of being of said tier given the feats of their peer. We have characters of the same title/rank with worse feats against people in their tier, so there exist a possibility that a featless or very little feat character is of that tier.

We don't have solid proof that they are of that tier, so we should put possibly, not at least.

>Characters should only scale to 7-C:

• If they have Feats
• If they have Solid Scaling

Agree, but this should be the standard for every tier.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

If we're to go that route, we would have to scale intail kyuubi state genin naruto and sasuke to kid Kakashi also.

Im pretty sure they would also be stronger than Kid Kakashi. Unless im missing something, Kid Kakashi being able to take on Kyubi State Naruto and Curse Marked Sasuke sounds pretty laughable.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

They have much better feats than Kid Kakashi as well.

 

[I_am_myself_You_are_you]

I agree

 

[I_am_myself_You_are_you]

So we should set jounin genma is At least 8-A likely higher ?

and mirai is 8-A ?

 

[AstralKing7]

Yeah Genma should be atleast 8A because they also fought CM2 sound four but we didn't see that

 

[I_am_myself_You_are_you]

The reason the genma defeated The Sound Four 4 was because they had just finished their mission. Of course they are very tired. And lose a lot of chakra in mission.The Sound Four 4 can not beat them easily. And all the chakra all must be lost in the fight against genma.

 

[I_am_myself_You_are_you]

genma Chakra Complete 100 Percent >>> The Sound Four 4 Curse Mark 2

 

[I_am_myself_You_are_you]

p.s. I think the genma Have a chakra. 5-10% from 100%. of chakra all but The Sound Four 4 have chakra Complete 100 Percent And lose all chakras in battle of genma with chakra 5-10% from 100% of chakra all lol

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

So, anything else?

 

[AstralKing7]

Naw I don't think so

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

My 2 cents are just making the tier Possibly 8-A and not At least 8-A since they aren't at least 8-A, they are possibly 8-A due to their rank and lack of feats/scaling to actually say "Yeah they are at least 8-A."

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Contextually, they'd be At Least 8-A though as again:

• Jonin > Special Jonin

• S4 feared Jonin enough to not battle without CM and stated they would have died if they didn't fight all out in CM2 (And still had high difficulty despite a 2 v 4 advantage).

Thus, via context, Jonin should be at least 8-A via rank.

• Jonin > Special Jonin > S4 individually.

• S4 (Together in CM2 w/ High Difficulty) > Special Jonin (Fresh off a previous mission)

 

[Kepekley23]

Just put them at a straight 8-A.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Just put them at a straight 8-A.

Or that...lol

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

That's a middle-ground compromise , it's better than "At least" at least.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

So, I guess we're done here?

 

[AstralKing7]

Now just too make a list and work out who scales

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Seems like it.

 

[I_am_myself_You_are_you]

Sound Four to use Curse Mark 2 fight with Genma Raido

And they say they can not resist the power of jonin. All chakras Missing From Fight against Genma. And Genma to missions at least Rank B to Rank A They come back from the mission and tired. Their chakra is low because mission .

Of course, it's a 4-2 battle.

The enemy they fight in mission. May be stronger than the Sound Four. haha

 

[I_am_myself_You_are_you]

 

[I_am_myself_You_are_you]

Genma Should be Comparable to Kakkō.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Someone should make a revision thread for the chuunin and jounin. It'd affect quite some people.

 

[AstralKing7]

Now that's actually special Jonin like them can keep up with Kakazu while Choji and Ino can't


Also who made that wood that Genma and Raido are fighting???

 

[AstralKing7]

If it's anime only then I don't know