Naruto Power Scaling Clarification

[Shadowbokunohero]

"Kakashi used the Lightning Blade to finish Zabuza... But he he scaled to his move then why didn't he just use his bare hand instead off taking the time to charge LB."

Same as saying why does Goku uses a kamehameha to defeat his opponent instead of just punching him to death.

if anything Naruto characters have an excuse to rather use ninjutsu oppose to just physical strength, as their abilities have stat effects

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

@Apple Edo actually makes no sense if you think about, where the hell does this infinite chakra come from, there's wasnt even infinite chakra to begin with... and saying that they get chakra from the afterlife wouldn't make sense as chakra was created in the world of the living.

 

[Peter1129]

Not coming here to participate in the discussion just came to say this.

@Shadowbokunohero

You should just edit your comment instead. If you keep replying like this the thread will be filled up in no time.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

While having more chakra does mean you have more potential, it doesn't means you have reached the level that such potential grants.

So I agree with @Lord.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

@Venom, We all agree with that. were debating if their AP= Durability

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

in short what i believe

It's not about having more chakra but what your able to do with the chakra your given, mastering your chakra control. having more chakra makes it easier for you to use those said abilities as you would be loosing less chakra, Attacks can also be amplified by chakra to increase in attack potency via training or having a mastery of the specific jutsu.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

For those who are using Dragon Ball as a argument, forget about it. Dragon Ball characters have blocked, tanked, deflected their ki attacks but deal damage with punches.

Plus Cell and Buu can regenrate so they have no choice but to blast them.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Venom, We all agree with that. were debating if their AP= Durability

No... Where debating whether their moves scale to their Natural AP and Durability.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Frieza being cut in half by his own Destructo Disc?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Anyway I'm not going to be able to comment until tomorrow, sorry.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

No problem Griffin!, have a pleasant day further

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

I agree with the OP. Most Naruto characters don't scale to their jutsu and not every jutsu is the same in power. More Chakra doesn't necessarily make a character more powerful, it's how it's used in a jutsu.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Chakra capacity is a huge factor in the AP of a jutsu, but it's not the only thing there.

Chakra Volume - The amount of water you have to pump on your hose.

E.g. Pushing someone backwards with a high-pressure hose.

Chakra Control - The nozzle of your hose that can change how your chakra interacts with the target.

E.g. Having a water jet cut through marble vs pumping the high-pressure hose against said marble.

Chakra Potency - It's been noted that potency of chakra is a thing, one example that I can remember is Kakashi with regards to Chidori.

E.g. I don't have a real-world example for this. Just think Hashirama's plant thing and Uchiha plot eyes being able to subjugate Bijuu. There's just something about it that makes it have more oomph.

Point being, I disagree with scaling Chakra Capacity to AP, but I do agree with scaling AP with the strongest jutsu they have, if only to show the potential their jutsus and chakra-amped bodies can reach. Durability is a different matter though.

Naturally, a shinobi's natural durability is lower than what's in our profiles, but their training makes it so they're naturally inclined to amp their body at the first sign of combat. Just that, molding chakra in a certain way would have more bang for its buck than trying to circulate more of it around one's body. Kinda like smashing x amount of asphalt with a sledgehammer for a day when you can invest in a jackhammer for smashing x times 2 amount of asphalt instead.

TL;DR

Attack Potency = Strongest jutsu they have

(E.g. Naruto pumping enough chakra to one-shot Momo while in base)

Durability1 = Strongest jutsu their own bodily defense tanked

(E.g. Naruto tanked a big-ass explosion while in base and with his chakra drained)

Durability2 = Strongest jutsu their external defense tanked

(E.g. Naruto's chakra arms tanked a fist fight with Kaguya, but those are his chakra arms, not his own arms)

PS.

No. Naruto is physically superior to Sasuke in Six Paths Sage Bijuu Chakra Mode, but Sasuke equalizes with better skill, precog, haxx and potency.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

what would their striking strength be, the same as their AP?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Range from (scaling from their chakra-amped durability) to (scaling from whatever durability the thing they damaged physically is, like manga Momo hurting base Naruto but not being able to do so with Super Saiyan Naruto).

 

[AppleLord]

Why not create a Blog that explains how this wiki will rate them, and then link that blog to the Naruto page?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I agree with the Ap scaling to their Jutsu's something i disagreed with Griffin about, as for durability i would say it's rather inconsistent but your method might allow us to gauge the characters easier

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

what about characters that have no durability feats, how do we scale them.

 

[Gemmysaur]

It's better than "But X hurt Y with a punch, surely he can punch that similarly durable shield he has!" thing at least.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

from weaker characters?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Which character for example?

We can scale them from who and how they fought, I think.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

lets say Asuma or Kurenai

 

[Gemmysaur]

Hmm. Asuma, iirc took physical attacks from the scythe guy. I just couldn't remember if it was the scythe's handle or if he was kicked.

Kurenai... idk. At least stronger than the person she's explicitly stronger than, without rocks-papers-scissors no jutsu advantage.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

well he would scale from Hidan who doesnt have much feats other than fighting Kakashi, what;s Kakashi striking strength , this is gonna take alot of work but your suggestion makes most sense.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Yeah. It's a lot of work, but we got all the time in the world. I'll be sure to entrust my grandchildren the secrets on how to scale Boruto from Kakashi once the latter's nearly a corpse and the former looks like Edward Elric's dad.

Kakashi scales physically from Lee, iirc. Else, it scales from his durability.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

XD

 

[LordAizenSama]

I agree with the OP about higher chakra doesnt mean higher ap. Heck some moves shouldn't even scale to their usual ap, like Chibaku Tensei and ETSB let alone dura.

Thia would be really hard to sort out in the profiles though, seeing as you'd have to do alot of editing

 

[TheFinalOrder]

When it comes to Durability, Naruto Characters have split durability.

Naruto Characters can handle Blunt force and explosions well, yet easily pierced by Kunai and such.

Their durability is Amped in 2 ways:

• Vitalization (Gates, Initial Kyuubi Mode, SM etc)

• Cloaks

Vitalization enhanced Strength, Speed, Durability, but it doesn't give you protection from cutting attacks.

Cloaks does the same as vitalization, but it gives you protection against Cutting attacks.

There's more but my lunch break is over

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Man, this will probably turn a lot of Naruto characters into glass cannons.

 

[Gemmysaur]

For the most part, they are. There's only so much they can pump into their bodies to strengthen it, hence the need for external defenses like Doryuheki, Rashomon (that's the name of the Hashi shield right?), Bijuu cloak and gates.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

Biju and Ten-Tails Jinchuriki don't really suffer from that problem as much as others in the verse.

 

[Omimi]

@LordAizenSama

kaguya dura should scale to ETSB

cuz TSB users can only control them within 70 metres of their location so she cant use ETSB from nother dimension

 

[TheFinalOrder]

To give you guys an example, Naruto Characters are more Similar to One Piece Characters than Bleach characters.

• Chakra Cloaks = Armor Haki

Naruto Characters are far from Glass Canon when it comes to Tanking Blunt Force or Explosions. Though without Cloaks, like in OP, unless you have a special body, Bullets and swords and Kunai, etc, will harm you.

When it comes to Ninjutsu AP, it Get's tricky depending on the technique, though Chakra Mechanics state that all jutsu require a certain amount of chakra to use and through chakra control, that chakra can be routed elsewhere.

So to give an example: Naruto and Sasuke each used X amount of chakra to create the SPCT. Through Chakra control, Naruto could either route that same amount of chakra to a Rasengan or vitalize his Body with to increase his strength. So, Ninjutsu AP can scale to Stats.

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Final i dont like that last paragraph. Some attacks are clearly meant to do more powerful/damaging attacks then others. Rasenshuriken logically does more damage than rasengan, right?

Personally I think of it like this:

Imagine the attacks have base multipliers which works with the amount of chakra they pour into it

Lets say Narutos Chakra is worth 100

Rasengan has a base multiplier of 5x so it has a power output of 500

Rasenshuriken is a mulitplier of 10x so 1000 power

Chibaku Tensei is a multiplier of 100x, so 10000 power

Of course we cant go through every move and give them different tiers but it's just a reason to not go willy nilly scaling their best move to their usual ap.

This idea isn't limited to naruto but other verses aswell. Just a thought to keep in mind

 

[Gemmysaur]

See my point about that using hoses as an example. That's how I view jutsu usage.

 

[Blanked]

Naruto had more chakra at his disposal than Kakashi during the first arc of Naruto(not Naruto shippuden), but that doesn't make him stronger.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Blanked has a point. Almost every ninja, minus maybe the kage have less chakra then naruto and yet they have better feats, both dura and ap then Naruto does in most of the series up until the Pain Arc. I dont know to chalk this up to PIS or just go with ap = dura route. I need to refresh my knowledge on naruto tbh.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

Having more chakra makes you stronger is not fulfilled in Naruto, perhaps in series such as Dragon Ball where more Ki all your standards increase to the point that having a considerable amount of Ki higher than your opponent practically makes you almost victor. But neither in Dragon Ball to have more Ki makes you a sure winner, in Naruto having more chakra does not make you stronger than another person, it depends on the domain that you have of it as well as in which you can use it.

Although it should be noted that in Naruto an increase in chakra does influence your powers as seen in the users of the Sage Mode, Sage Transformation, Cursed Seal Transformation, Butterfly Mode.

With regard to techniques, a technique with twice the chakra is naturally more powerful than one with less quantity, so a Rasengan and Rasen Shuriken with natural energy is stronger than a normal one, or a larger normal Rasengan is more powerful than one small.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Honestly, Naruto has alot of PIS and I am just tempted to write most of the OP as just PIS. I am making the assumption if naruto applied the same amount of chakra with the same control, he can probably bust a moon/small planet with his abilities.


But I am personally neutral, I will come back with a more detailed post later. Edit: For the record, I have wrote/deleted tens of post in the past half hour and quite honestly, there is points on both sides I cant really debunk.

 

[7th_Ki'oon]

Man, this will probably turn a lot of Naruto characters into glass cannons.

They've always been as such, until this site started to wank them, because of the war are and the sages chibuku tensei moon lore.