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Naruto Elements: Raiton.

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Yeah. This is kind of one of the things I've never fully gotten about our standards. It does seem possible to me that a lot of the stuff on the blog post can be true without the speed of the Jutsu having be lightning speed.
Isn't that the reason we have to bring "Criteria" to accept lightning feats? By this logic no Lightning Feat in fiction is Lightning Fast.
I mean, if you do wikiwide revision, I am cool with it. I don't want Naruto/Boruto to be treated differently.
 
Of course they are different
Then.... that's why some people can/will have issues with a general speed upgrade.



That would be against the wiki standards
Our standards are there to suggest that a fictional move with lightning in its name would share the same speed. Damage saying it's just electricity wouldn't be against our standards.

Isn't that the reason we have to bring "Criteria" to accept lightning feats
Lightning manipulation is a common enough power in fiction that the criteria was made to see if we could use those feats for speed ratings.

Really I don't care if its accepted as standard MHS+ speed, I just think it opens up a lot of narrative consistency issues if we assume everyone is mach 2-4k (which is 2~x our average lightning speed rating) but still opts for attacks that are significantly slower than they are. Unless everything is lightning speed for some reason
 
Really I don't care if its accepted as standard MHS+ speed, I just think it opens up a lot of narrative consistency issues if we assume everyone is mach 2-4k (which is 2~x our average lightning speed rating) but still opts for attacks that are significantly slower than they are. Unless everything is lightning speed for some reason
I personally agree with the bold part, but that is again the wiki issue. Like, cmon, why do I have to explain it? Character A performs a feat with a certain technique, Character B is on par with him so he overall scale to it for almost no reason other than they are equal.
Again, unless you do a wikiwide revision on how to scale speed properly this isn't gonna work.

And at last, is it really that hard to believe that Raiton moves at Lightning Speed when it meats all of the criteria? I don't think so, unless you can disprove it.
 
Then.... that's why some people can/will have issues with a general speed upgrade.
Not necessarily, being different does not mean they don't have the same speed. Chakra elements can be different from their "natural" counter parts, but that's always an isolated case. Just like the ninja who uses Suiton (water) without impurities, while all other suiton has impurities. The difference should be something like a huge difference in something very important for that element.

Imo it makes no sense to doubt if a chakra element is real because of some small differences.
Our standards are there to suggest that a fictional move with lightning in its name would share the same speed. Damage saying it's just electricity wouldn't be against our standards.
Of course electricity isn't accepted as lightning speed, what the **** is this? I can give you examples of electricity and lightning if you want.
Lightning manipulation is a common enough power in fiction that the criteria was made to see if we could use those feats for speed ratings.

Really I don't care if its accepted as standard MHS+ speed, I just think it opens up a lot of narrative consistency issues if we assume everyone is mach 2-4k (which is 2~x our average lightning speed rating) but still opts for attacks that are significantly slower than they are. Unless everything is lightning speed for some reason
Of course we'll not accepted literally every Raiton to be MHS+, as I said before at least 3 times. And lightning feats aren't always Mach 2000 or above, it can be MHS, just like in Boruto, where Sumire reacted to lightning with her Suiton and got MHS speed by that via calculation.
 
I know I'm a bit lost in the debate, but I'd just going to point out some details about lightning. Lightning bolts can vary between 100,000 m/s and 1,400,000; with an average speed of 440,000 m/s. That's how fast the bolt of lightning; cloud to ground velocity is. The Return strike, which is how fast the electrons travel while still within the clouds and while it already struck the ground is approx. 1/3rd the speed of light; but we do not assume that part scales to anyone. Machine generated electricity is at least mach 1.6, but I doubt that's what we're talking about.

As for the topic at hand, while I do see some strong points on Damage's end, and I also think M3X also makes some strong points. I'm more neutral on the Raiton being lightning, but I'm still positive other feats are still consistent. And personally, Kirin being undodgable sounds like PIS if I'm to be perfectly honest.
 
Well, I thought that the blog post seemed to make sense, but I am not a very good person to ask.
 
Lightning bolts can vary between 100,000 m/s and 1,400,000; with an average speed of 440,000 m/s
Lightning can be much lower and much higher, that's just the findings of one study. It can be low as 87,100 m/s to high as in the seven digits.
 
I get that, I was just pointing out that even in our accepted sources lightning ranges far harder than DDM implied.
 
Yes, I know, but so many of our calculations depend on lightning speed that it isn't realistic to revise it at this point.
 
I was going off the lightning speed page. And even so, that's still MHS at bare minimum lightning bolts are.
 
Wouldn't go that far, but yeah its off topic for the thread at hand.
 
Until the Lightning Speed revision we go by Wiki's standard Lightning Speed.
The revision wouldn't decrease lightning's speed by a whole lot if that's what you're asking BTW.

But in any case, that's not even the main discussing point.
 
A summary.
  • Raiton has almost properties of a real lightning, thus making them lightning speed.
  • Not all Raiton jutsus are lightning speed. This is important.
  • If the jutsu in question will lead to inconsistencies, it should not be used to calc. That's what we should do imo, it has not been debated before.
 
Okay. Thanks. That should probably be fine then.
 
Okay. That seems fine then, as I mentioned earlier.
 
Thank you.

What else is left to do here?
 
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