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Nanatsu no taizai question

its chapter 114.

and i repeat it again, merlin does not posess infinite magic power. she is able to let her magic power last infinitely.

major difference.
 
And I have say merlin may just able to use infinity at chapter 191, because she mention infinity in that chapter, and so far the scans say she can use magic that otherwise will require too much magic for her to activated.

Also doesn't matter whatever she possess infinitely magic or just able to let her magic power last infinitely, as long as she can cast the magic and that's it.
 
having infinite magic power and being able to let ones magic power last infinetly is a huge difference.

if you have infinite magic power you are effectively limitless. this is not the case with merlin. she is merely able to maintain whatever limit she has indefinetly.
 
if you have infinite magic power you are effectively limitless

No you not because Fairy heart exist, we just scaled that feats to whatever spell in fairy tail(in this case country busting spell since it was the strongest AP spell) and count the infinity magic as limitless stamina.
 
neither fairy heart nor merlins infinity are infinite magic powers.

they simply are infinite magic, which can be used as fuel for whatever magic power is cast.

but you have to be able to cast it in the first place.

-

if you agree on the PLs not being the deciding factors in NNT and merlin not having infinite magic power but infinite magic "stamina" as you call it then we have nothing to further discuss over, since these have been the two main points.
 
they simply are infinite magic, which can be used as fuel for whatever magic power is cast.

Which is why I say we scaled Merlin Infinity to whatever spell that exist in NNT, since merlin should be able to use those spell as long as she know how to use them, we do this to avoid High 3-A on Top tier in NNT or anyone who can threaten Merlin.
 
the only scaling merlin get is to the spells she was confirmed to be able to cast working on at maximum the amount of level she was seen being able to dish out.

-> hax: all what she has shown

-> AP: island level with a questionmark

-

we do not randomly assing her any magic in the NNT verse just because we think she may or may not be able to cast them.
 
Yeah better to use feats, the point is with infinity she can use magic that normally she won't able to afford to do so whatever due to the casting cost or the maintaining cost being too high.
 
but thats not accurate. nowehere does it say infinity allows her to use magic she would not be able to use under normal circumstances. it is simply said that when she, herself, invoked a magic - regardless how powerful that magic might be and how difficult to maintain - via infinity this problem vanishes.

picture it like this:

merlin can cast magic up to 100

a spell now needs 100 to be just initially cast. and then the speel needs another 100 to remain for more than just the initial casting.

with merlin she only needs the first 100, which in this example is her maximum, and the remaining 100 are cared for by infinity.

-

but she cant cast a spell which originally would need 101, since she lacks the magic power.
 
That's literally what merlin say, graylord herself surprised how merlin can cast the time hax in the first place because it will require too much power to be cast.
 
RavenSupreme said:
picture it like this:

merlin can cast magic up to 100

a spell now needs 100 to be just initially cast. and then the speel needs another 100 to remain for more than just the initial casting.

with merlin she only needs the first 100, which in this example is her maximum, and the remaining 100 are cared for by infinity.
Click to expand...
Also i'm understands this, what i'm saying is merlin infinity is dont work like that.
 
Why you keep ignoring the scans? grayroad clearly implied even to cast the spell will require too much power as well, same story with what merlin say in the next page.
 
neither merlin nor grayroad ever said that casting such a spell requires too much power. greyroad spoke of an "absurd" amount of magic. that is unquantifiable but not "too much". simply a certain amount of it. the only thing he stated was that keeping such a spell up is impossible.

i am not the one ignoring the scans.
 
Grayroad say The sheer massive amount of magic need to bend the law of this world
and merlin say No matter how powerfull a magic is
 
greyroad said "Never mind" the sheer massive amounf of.

implying while it is a great amount of force it is not a never to reach amount.

and merlin did not say: infinity lets me cast any magic no matter how powerful

merlin says: no matter how powerful - once casted, infinity keeps it going.

the act of casting has to come from her own magical prowess. and her own magical prowess has clear limits, which i have shown you already. like with the PLs your own headcanon doesnt make it true.
 
Infinity is called bordering cheating and not normal magic by Greyroad and Fraudri, it is also described as so unfair here. This is also the Description. The type of magic she also use is not based on conventional durability, it's a whirlwind, which she used to trap her. Merlin also captured Grayroad after she split into multiple parts. Though i do agree infinity isn't HAX, it's just an ever lasting effect.

Merlin is clearly stronger, firstly her experiment ray wrecked Grayroad, and is specifically described as very dangerous by her. Merlin was literally fodder stomped by Galand, yet she manages to beat an even more powerful enemy after, then freezes Cusack.

Saying she had no way to increase her power is headcanon, and doesn't matter. Power scaling doesn't care about plot. Merlin was consistently below all the 10 Commandments, and Albion before, now she's above most after.

Gowther at the time of the escanor fight hadn't awakened (it's literally shown when they say he has a 3100 PL), but that's irrelevant because he never fought Escanor at his 29000 pl. Gowther was stomped, and surprised that he was still alive by the end of it, using Mind-HAX to win.

Also Meliodas says he had to wait for a window of opportunity before fighting Drole and Gloxina, or he would die. He then goes Demon the instant a full power Gloxina appears. So Meliodas isn't anywhere near these two 50 - 40 K power levels with his 32.5 K PL.

EDIT: Here's the exact scan.

Also Meliodas has a PL of 56,000 as Demon, and he bodied Gloxinia who has a PL of 50,000.

The Fraudrin one doesn't even matter since he withstood hits from Meliodas with a 30k Power Level. Meliodas with a power level of 4400 and 10,300 couldn't even hurt a weakened Galand (26,000). It's non sense for a 3,100 PL to even fight a 31,000 PL. More proof is that the 3,320 Meliodas with Liz's sword barely cut the 5,500 Albion.
 
Fhfhghghg said:
Infinity is called bordering cheating and not normal magic by Greyroad and Fraudri, it is also described as so unfair here. This is also the Description. Infinity is clearly hax magic, they even pretty much say so. The type of magic she also use is not based on conventional durability, it's a whirlwind, which she used to trap her. Merlin also captured Grayroad after she split into multiple parts.
Merlin is clearly stronger, firstly her experiment ray wrecked Grayroad, and is specifically described as very dangerous by her. Merlin was literally fodder stomped by Galand, yet she manages to beat an even more powerful enemy after, then freezes Cusack.

Saying she had no way to increase her power is headcanon, and doesn't matter. Power scaling doesn't care about plot. Merlin was consistently below all the 10 Commandments, and Albion before, now she's above most after.

Gowther at the time of the escanor fight hadn't awakened (it's literally shown when they say he has a 3100 PL), but that's irrelevant because he never fought Escanor at his 29000 pl. Gowther was stomped, and surprised that he was still alive by the end of it, using Mind-HAX to win.

Also Meliodas says he had to wait for a window of opportunity before fighting Drole and Gloxina, or he would die. He then goes Demon the instant a full power Gloxina appears. So Meliodas isn't anywhere near these two 50 - 40 K power levels with his 32.5 K PL.

EDIT: Here's the exact scan.

The Fraudrin one doesn't even matter since he withstood hits from Meliodas with a 30k Power Level. Meliodas with a power level of 4400 and 10,300 couldn't even hurt a weakened Galand (26,000). It's non sense for a 3,100 PL to even fight a 31,000 PL. More proof is that the 3,320 Meliodas with Liz's sword barely cut the 5,500 Albion.
Click to expand...
How you describe something doesnt let us draw the conclusion that it has a specific tier. And by no means does it mean the user of said something (Infinity in this case) can automatically get scaled to every magic in NNT only due to that reason, which was a proposition in this thread.

Meliodas overpowered Dolor physically and cut of 3 of his 4 arms - all without any demonic power. That is more than just "near" his power. That is dominating the fight. He didn not got a single injury in return.

´-

Why does the Fraudrin one doesnt matter? Dreyfus had no power boost throughout the series yet managed to harm Fraudrin. That is another indicator of a lower PL affecting a greater PL.

Whether Gowther managed to affect Escanor with Hax or not doesnt matter, again, the original proposition of the thread was that a lower PL is automatically fodder to a greater PL - which is not a valid assessment.

-

I thank you for bringing up all these scans and going through such lengths for formulating your words, they are just further proving my point.
 
Firstly, you do not need to quote what i said if it's above you, it unnecessarily clogs the thread - This is from what Ant has said. Now to the point;

She's clearly stronger, scaling alone does that. I did not scale it to every magic in NNT, i said the spell she used on Gray Road.

You literally did not listen at all. Drole was vastly weakened, he managed to regain some of his strength while Gloxina was out of comission, this is shown because he has no injuries and is in full health. The fact that his Giga Crush at full strength hurt Demon Meliodas is proof that Drole was weakened before. I even showed scans saying he was weakened.

I actually changed that comment. Again, you didn't listen, it literally makes no sense, i gave examples why it doesn't because the literal next chapter totally contradicts it.

It is actually, it's shown in the series so much more than what you believe. Also, that's not the point, the point is he never hurt Escanor without Mind Hax.

They do not prove your point because you barely listened and strawmanned my first point. Also, if what you believed was true, that would contradict them needing to get stronger at all.

Edit: Is your point that a higher PL can be affected due to a lower PL's Hax, if so, i agree.
 
Being clearly stronger does not let us automatically asign her a tier. Greyroad in the end is nothing more than the accumulation of a bunch of Grey demons and she is by no means a physical fighter. Her being affected by Merlins Extermination Ray is nothing out of the ordinary. Her ice magic against Cusack did nothing aside from irritating him. The best feat she has is her supposedly knocking out Meliodas - and that Meliodas was previously 1Hit KOed from Escanor.

As such the best scaling she get is maybe Island level with all the rudimentary hax she has shown up to that point - nothing more and nothing less. I am sure you have read through the entire debate until this point and not have just selectively looked over some of my comments, because then you would know that the proposition of that tier came from me.

-

Meliodas plan was waiting for them to drop their guard as an opening. Dolor was injured by Escanor, yet to what extent is unquantifiable. The fact that he had a casual talk with Meliodas does not give the impression he was weaknened to a state where it would actually influence his combat capability and drain his PL from 50K+ down to 30K.

-

I am unsure what your actual goal is here in this debate, let me give you the opinion what i argue for:

-> Merlin has not infinite magic power

-> Merlin does not get scaled to every spell in NNT

-> Merlin has best showings which let her scaled to island level potency

-> Lower level PL are not fodder to higher level PL

-

If you disagree with any of this you are free to formulate your words on it.

-

Also how come you are so passivelly agressive? Ease up, we are having a simple conversation here. No one is "not listening" or "strawmanning" you.
 
I get your point, and i guess i will conceed on that one. That was Merlin before time skip, so it doesn't matter, also what time of day for Escanor? Please give context.

And also he did pick them off when they were vulnerable, he says so. An extent that makes him weaker than Mel. It does, just because they can talk while injured means little, Galand talked while split in two, and other characters have been shown to do normal actions with holes in their chests. He also was definitley weakened, as i mentioned Demon Mel was hurt by Drole, while Base Mel was able to stomp him before, so Base Mel>Demon Mel.

Ok. I also do not understand what you mean, as in Are you talking about lower characters affecting higher ones via Hax or Physically?

>Agree, it's just duration.


>Already Mentioned I agree.


>Agree.

>Physically they are (unless it's a character with Magic instead of strength), with Hax they can fight and even win.

I apologise as coming off as agressive, that wasn't my intent. It didn't seem you listened at the time.
 
The battles with Merlin have been post the 1 month timeskip, not before. But yeha. I dont think Merlin is who we have to discuss here, seeing how we agree on her scaling, tiering and how her abilities work.

As for lower level PLs affecting higher level PLs - with hax that is definetly a factor and alone warrants that fights are not easily decided via PL alone. Galan was caught in BOS Gowthers Mindtwist for example. We agree on this matter as well.

-

no hard feelings, it could have been that you felt offended by something i have said or something, hence i asked.
 
Ok.

So we agree on that part.

Alright. Nah, it was nothing you said.

Anyway, since this has been resolved i'm going to unfollow.
 
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