Nagito's Resistance to Despair

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

I made this thread for the purpose of removing Nagito's resistance to Mind Manipulation and Morality Manipulation. The addition was proposed here, with the reasoning being that Nagito was the only one who is able to talk in the brainwashing process + pursuing with hope even when under the influence of despair.

First of all, that's too loose and too vague. Just because he could talk at the end while the others weren't doesn't prove it, everything he said while brainwashed there was batsh*t insane, and his classmates were also able to talk when they already had the "swirly eyes" in that episode. And the reason that they weren't talking was most likely so that Nagito could have that monologue at the end.

People under the effects of despair have also been shown to pursue their ideologies but in a twisted way, it just happened that Nagito's ideology was to pursue hope. An example of this is Kazuo Tengan, his personality did not radically change like the others, and he pursued his goals in a twisted way, it just happened to be related to "hope", but I'm pretty sure that's not limited resistance, despair just twisted his way of obtaining that. To give an example outside of this "hope" goal is Shuji Fujigawa, the Giboura School Massacre twisted his way of pursuing his goals, and his goal was stopping crime and murder because he was aspiring to be a police officer, then despair twisted his goals and now he believes that to stop crime, you have to eradicate humanity because humans commit crimes. Also, personality change through despair is subjective, and it shouldn't be used as a measurement for something.

All of that falls under "Morality Manipulation", and Nagito for sure had his morals twisted, just like the others (granted that he was already weird before, but under the effects of despair, that weirdness has been enhanced, warped, and twisted to something similar that he becomes extremely deranged). It's either you have resistance for not falling to despair, or you don't because you were influenced by despair, limited resistance blurs the line and makes it confusing, especially if the reasons are loose because no one has been shown to have partial resistance to despair.

TL;DR

• It just happened to be that Nagito's goal was pursuing hope, and despair has the tendency of twisting goals and ideologies. In Nagito's case, and as well as Kazuo's case, hope was their goal. Their way of obtaining that is different, but twisted.
  • A simple example of twisted ideology without hope is Shuji Fujigawa.
• Personality change through despair is subjective.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

@Zencha9 @Sparkive @StrymULTRA @Tllmbrg @ElixirBlue

Since you guys were the users that were involved in the addition, I need your insights, please.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

I'm also unsure about Nekomaru getting Enhanced Senses for "feeling of intense bloodlust" seems really loose as well, wasn't his statement a response to Teruteru's creepy statement?

 

[Zencha9]

I'm also unsure about Nekomaru getting Enhanced Senses for "feeling of intense bloodlust" seems really loose as well, wasn't his statement a response to Teruteru's creepy statement?

This is just shounen shit really gundam also claims that he can sense his bloodlust and nekomaru says much the same thing and says that he missed this kinda of atmosphere
unsure if we equate these to feats of Enhanced sense by default but yeah

Pretty much agree with the nagito resistance being yeeted not everyone's despair is the same going by how mikan acts normally throughout her trial even though she's back to her despair state

 

[Zencha9]

(also based pfp)

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

This is just shounen shit really gundam also claims that he can sense his bloodlust and nekomaru says much the same thing and says that he missed this kinda of atmosphere
unsure if we equate these to feats of Enhanced sense by default but yeah

Pretty much agree with the nagito resistance being yeeted not everyone's despair is the same going by how mikan acts normally throughout her trial even though she's back to her despair state

I guess bloodlust sensing can be kept, but it shouldn't be called Enhanced Sixth anymore, I think.

Okay, thank you for the input, I'll wait for the input of others.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I already mentioned in the thread that Nagito's resistance is REALLY DAMN LIMITED and won't be applicable in almost all the situations except stuff similar to Junko's. The main reason he has it is because he still was somehow "himself" a bit and did not become a insane dude like the rest of his classmates who radically have all changed. The other classmates became all literal psychopaths who see nothing but destruction and despair around them (Junko basically said that they became all like her iirc), but Nagito wasn't totally under that despair, as his obsession with hope has reduced the effects.

So I basically disagree with the thread.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm also unsure about Nekomaru getting Enhanced Senses for "feeling of intense bloodlust" seems really loose as well, wasn't his statement a response to Teruteru's creepy statement?

I have no idea how it got even added to be honest. I don't mind that being removed though.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

I already mentioned in the thread that Nagito's resistance is REALLY DAMN LIMITED and won't be applicable in almost all the situations except stuff similar to Junko's. The main reason he has it is because he still was somehow "himself" a bit and did not become a insane dude like the rest of his classmates who radically have all changed. The other classmates became all literal psychopaths who see nothing but destruction and despair around them (Junko basically said that they became all like her iirc), but Nagito wasn't totally under that despair, as his obsession with hope has reduced the effects.

So I basically disagree with the thread.

Based on what you're saying, I still don't know how he is not insane. He joined a terrorist group, happy while acting like a slave, and having a main goal to help create a hopeful and joyful world born from absolute despair or by helping the Ultimate Despair doesn't sound sane to me. Also, being the sanest out of all the insane terrorists doesn't warrant a limited rating for me. Psychological, emotional, and personality changes are subjective when it comes to despair, so identifying how much the brainwashing affected the person based on the outward display of personality is a no for me unless it's been explicitly stated that he did really resist it in some way.

This is still reminiscent of Kazuo Tengan being under the influence of despair, who follows his ideologies but in a twisted way, which just happened to be pursuing hope.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Based on what you're saying, I still don't know how he is not insane. He joined a terrorist group, happy while acting like a slave, and having a main goal to help create a hopeful and joyful world born from absolute despair or by helping the Ultimate Despair doesn't sound sane to me. Also, being the sanest out of all the insane terrorists doesn't warrant a limited rating for me. Psychological, emotional, and personality changes are subjective when it comes to despair, so identifying how much the brainwashing affected the person based on the outward display of personality is a no for me unless it's been explicitly stated that he did really resist it in some way.

What I mean is that yes, he became insane, but the degree of the insanity he has received is not the same as the others. This is why is limited, as he became yes insane, but not totally insane as the classmates.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

What I mean is that yes, he became insane, but the degree of the insanity he has received is not the same as the others. This is why is limited, as he became yes insane, but not totally insane as the classmates.

I am sorry, but what is the conclusive evidence here that what you're saying is actually what happened? Analysis regarding the outward displays of personalities, and the changes to them under the influence of despair is a pretty volatile thing to use especially when it comes to that. Simply saying that he had not become as insane as the others because he did not show it as much as the others is a bit unusual to use as a basis for the reasoning.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

bump

 

[Js250476]

(also based pfp)

Spins around in wheelchair in approval of Monaca respect

 

[SpicyyyRamen]

I feel this also isn't enough of a showing to be considered even Limited resistance. This should especially be the case with Morality Manipulation since Nagito did clearly fall to despair but kept his ideologies of hope. While he may have still hated Junko and despised despair, the despair video still planted despair in him which he acted upon. He didnt restrain himself or try to turn away these thoughts but embraced despair for the sake of hope. Resisting this would've either been him at least temporarily trying to reject these thoughts or actions but instead he embraced it and it happened to still be adjacent to his hope so he could, in his mind, carry out both by doing the other. My thoughts at least

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Ye, I second Ramen's statement, as it basically explains everything.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

bump

 

[Js250476]

Well if I had to give my two cents on the matter yeah I think what everyone’s said more or less relays how I see it. Nagito was enveloped in and effected by despair to an extent it’s just since he’s essentially an enigma in terms of philosophy and perspective he could still continue to pursue hope and his ideal path since in his mind he sees working under the Ultimate Despair and paving a bleak future for the world and the symbols of hope as a means to cultivate his most desired hope even if he despises Junko and what everyone’s become that’s just how Nagito operates. With all that in mind I think what’s been said is fairly reasonable.