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Nagi vs Kai
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
- Start date
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- #2
Ok so for all who are unfamiliar Nagi starts with shadow stabing.
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Bump
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- #4
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Kai for reasons below.
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- #6
I hate this comment.The God Of Procrastination said:
This thread.
My idea.
And my life.
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Kai via absorption.
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- #8
Is that the "below reasons"?
Well can Kai deal with shadow stabbing and shadow room bfr?
Well can Kai deal with shadow stabbing and shadow room bfr?
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Kai throws his sword.
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- #10
He can easily redirect the swords or use shadow trickery to do so.
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What are their attack potencies?
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- #12
Nagi is about baseline (assumption). But redirecting Kai's swords would still not require AP, so eh.
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How doe it not require Attack Potency?
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- #14
Cus he's throwing the swords. Not punching. A thrown sword from a 72 ton dude isn't 72 ton in potency, it's less cus friction and all and it doesn't have all that much weight behind it. I can still be dodged and managed around with shadow beasts.
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Kai can fight summoning with summoning.
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- #16
Not exactly. If his shadow gets stabbed he will be unable to act.
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He needs to get close to do that, right?
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- #18
Nah, he can just throw his sword with quite a bit of accuracy. He threw 5 swords in a moments notice at 5 different shadow pinning them down from a distance.
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What's the range of Kai's absorption?
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- #20
It's decent, but he needs to tie someone with his swords first.
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The way that chains work makes tying him with a throw not too difficult.
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- #22
Well considering the shadow beasts and the fact that Shadow Bind is a lot easier to pull off as it has no need to tie him up it's just a single throw it would be pretty easy.
Also tying Nagi up may not work as he can just teleport via shadow walk.
Also tying Nagi up may not work as he can just teleport via shadow walk.
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He might have absorbed some of his chi by then. Can't Shadow Bind be deflected?
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- #24
Well hitting the sword would obviously work, but the sword won't be aiming him. It will be aiming like 1 meter to his side or sth like that. Kai has no reason to kick something that's way far off. And he doesn't know about the shadow binding. So from his perspective it will just look like the guy missed. So it's possible to deflect the sword that's shadow binding, it's just fairly unlikely that he will do so.
I don't think "some" really matters as the absorption is only useful once he absorbs all of your chi so he turns you into part of his necklace thingy.
I don't think "some" really matters as the absorption is only useful once he absorbs all of your chi so he turns you into part of his necklace thingy.
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Nagi's a bit above baseline? Kai can win simply by hitting once or twice. Redirecting a linear throw requires AP, though not as much, but it'll still hurt Nagi if he tries. Swinging his blades gives Nagi even less of a chance to redirect the hits safely.
Kai doesn't need to tie someone with his chains, weakening them works as well, like with Shifu. There are even cases where he's pulled absorption without restraining or weakening the opponent, but that's not a likely lead.
Kai can travel between realms, I think he'd be able to escape the shadow room bfr.
Absorbing some of their chi should work theoretically. If he gets some of his absorption off, Nagi's legs will be solid jade due to the transmutation.
Kai doesn't need to tie someone with his chains, weakening them works as well, like with Shifu. There are even cases where he's pulled absorption without restraining or weakening the opponent, but that's not a likely lead.
Kai can travel between realms, I think he'd be able to escape the shadow room bfr.
Absorbing some of their chi should work theoretically. If he gets some of his absorption off, Nagi's legs will be solid jade due to the transmutation.
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- #26
Assumption but yes. The shadow beats can do that work for him so it won't really hurt him.
Yeah but that's even less likely due to the fact that nagi won't go for physical battle.
Not really he needed an insane amount of chi to do that once. It's not combat applicable unless he absorbs nagi.
Yeah but that would still not happen due to shadow bind being easier to pull off.
Yeah but that's even less likely due to the fact that nagi won't go for physical battle.
Not really he needed an insane amount of chi to do that once. It's not combat applicable unless he absorbs nagi.
Yeah but that would still not happen due to shadow bind being easier to pull off.
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I don't know what the shadow beats are.
He needed Oogway's chi, and it didn't cost him any chi seeing how Oogway's chi was not depleted whatsoever after he travelled to the mortal realm. It takes a certain amount of chi to surpass the 'limit' of the spirit realm before you can travel to the mortal realm, and Kai by this point is far beyond that limit.
He needs to get past Kai's attacks, throw his sword (is that even an ic lead?), get the sword past Kai's chains and hit Kai's shadow which will be mostly behind him. It's not that easy to pull off.
He needed Oogway's chi, and it didn't cost him any chi seeing how Oogway's chi was not depleted whatsoever after he travelled to the mortal realm. It takes a certain amount of chi to surpass the 'limit' of the spirit realm before you can travel to the mortal realm, and Kai by this point is far beyond that limit.
He needs to get past Kai's attacks, throw his sword (is that even an ic lead?), get the sword past Kai's chains and hit Kai's shadow which will be mostly behind him. It's not that easy to pull off.
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- #28
Beasts made of shadow...
Hmm possibly I have to see the movie soon.
Yeah it's extremely ic to open up with shadow bind. And the shadow would be somewhat to the side, cus mid day. And he stabbing his shadow ain't hard for him.
Hmm possibly I have to see the movie soon.
Yeah it's extremely ic to open up with shadow bind. And the shadow would be somewhat to the side, cus mid day. And he stabbing his shadow ain't hard for him.
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Oh it was a typo. How long does it take to summon them?
There's further clarification in Paws of Destiny too.
I meant the 'throwing swords to bind his opponent' thing. Also it's central park, which has far more shaded areas than not to disrupt the shadow bind
There's further clarification in Paws of Destiny too.
I meant the 'throwing swords to bind his opponent' thing. Also it's central park, which has far more shaded areas than not to disrupt the shadow bind
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- #30
Not much really. They literally come up from the shadows and attack. Like the guy from naruto who draws stuff I guess.
I see. Doesn't change the fact that he can only do that between the mortal and dead realm. Nothing else.
More shadows. The more potent nagi is due to teleport. He can literally spawn behind and stab his shadow either way.
I see. Doesn't change the fact that he can only do that between the mortal and dead realm. Nothing else.
More shadows. The more potent nagi is due to teleport. He can literally spawn behind and stab his shadow either way.
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- #32
Yes but that's thought based. Nothing kai can do about it.
It's you that has to prove it actually. Kai needed a certain amount of ki to go among the living. He doesn't have tp.
Yeah shadow stabbing isn't physical. Also come on how fast do you think kai is in speed equal to stop a knife thrown at point blank range from a blind spot?
It's you that has to prove it actually. Kai needed a certain amount of ki to go among the living. He doesn't have tp.
Yeah shadow stabbing isn't physical. Also come on how fast do you think kai is in speed equal to stop a knife thrown at point blank range from a blind spot?
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Coming out of the shadows is not the same speed as a thought, and you said it's not his lead ic. So the shadow beasts can't protect Nagi from Kai's attacks to begin with.
He showcased teleportation between two universes. Prove that this teleportation is only limited to going between the Spirit Realm and the Mortal Realm, when this has NEVER been stated.
Physical implies CQC range, when has he ever gone full 'nothin personal kid' as a lead. Teleporting behind Kai =/= point blank range, he still has to move his body to stab the shadow which is slower than Kai turning around and wrist to hit Nagi with his chain, especially since Kai turning around moves where his shadow is which easily avoids a thrown knife.
He showcased teleportation between two universes. Prove that this teleportation is only limited to going between the Spirit Realm and the Mortal Realm, when this has NEVER been stated.
Physical implies CQC range, when has he ever gone full 'nothin personal kid' as a lead. Teleporting behind Kai =/= point blank range, he still has to move his body to stab the shadow which is slower than Kai turning around and wrist to hit Nagi with his chain, especially since Kai turning around moves where his shadow is which easily avoids a thrown knife.
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- #34
It is a leading move. If the thrown dagger (which i still don't get how it doesn't end the fight considering Nagi's skill and Kai's lack of knowledge so he won't hit a dagger that's not even aiming for him) misses, the dagger will create a puddle from which the shadow beasts come out (like he did vs ikki), and he throws several daggers at once btw, almost never using 1 dagger. Summoning is faster than anything Kai can bring up. Ikki Kurogane is basically a better Kai (faster, stronger, more skilled and had knowledge on Nagi's abilities), yet he still had to fight shadow monsters. And something i forgot to mention cutting down the beasts will result in black fog which will help a lot in Nagi trying to get behind Kai.
I believe it's when he says "With your chi i can finally return to the mortal realm". If it were just teleport from anywhere to any place he would have used it a LOT more often. He specifically said that he would return to the mortal realm and "NEVER" again used it. An ability that potent would have a lot more use.
Not really. By physical i meant, sword clashing. He would never go for that he would either assassinate, stab or send to the shadow room. Teleporting behind Kai is point blank range, he can literally summon himself from Kai's shadow ffs. Stabbing the shadow is far faster than Kai turning around for a couple of reasons:
1. As i said Nagi summons himself from shadows, he can literally come out from Kai's shadow and insta stab that would barely require any time considering he can just take his hand out from the shadow room and stab Kai's shadow before fully coming out. Yes he can appear only partly from the shadows.
2. The shadow doesn't move if Kai turns around. The shadow moves when the character moves, not when he turns around, the shadow is the same from turning around.
3. Nagi can still throw the dagger from Kai's blind spot.
I believe it's when he says "With your chi i can finally return to the mortal realm". If it were just teleport from anywhere to any place he would have used it a LOT more often. He specifically said that he would return to the mortal realm and "NEVER" again used it. An ability that potent would have a lot more use.
Not really. By physical i meant, sword clashing. He would never go for that he would either assassinate, stab or send to the shadow room. Teleporting behind Kai is point blank range, he can literally summon himself from Kai's shadow ffs. Stabbing the shadow is far faster than Kai turning around for a couple of reasons:
1. As i said Nagi summons himself from shadows, he can literally come out from Kai's shadow and insta stab that would barely require any time considering he can just take his hand out from the shadow room and stab Kai's shadow before fully coming out. Yes he can appear only partly from the shadows.
2. The shadow doesn't move if Kai turns around. The shadow moves when the character moves, not when he turns around, the shadow is the same from turning around.
3. Nagi can still throw the dagger from Kai's blind spot.
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Nagi for reasons above.
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- #36
Nagi: 1
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Nagi FRA for now
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- #38
Nagi:2
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Firstly, Nagi has to materialize the daggers which takes more than a few seconds. His teleportation is that he has to climb through the shadows, it's not instantaneous. Insta-stab is not something that can happen.
Kai's teleportation takes time, and he hasn't been in a situation where the teleportation would be a better option than simply moving to where he needs to be other than going between the spirit and mortal realm. If he was stuck somewhere and left there, he'd use the teleportation to escape.
You're acting a lot like Kai would do nothing whatsoever, when all things considered Kai should easily get the first move here, which would cripple Nagi, if not straight up kill him. As for the Ikki comparison, speed is equal and Ikki's skill is not superior to Kai's.
Your shadow does move as you turn your body; it's literally just where your body is blocking light. Also I've explained why coming behind Kai won't catch him off-guard. Put me down for Kai
Kai's teleportation takes time, and he hasn't been in a situation where the teleportation would be a better option than simply moving to where he needs to be other than going between the spirit and mortal realm. If he was stuck somewhere and left there, he'd use the teleportation to escape.
You're acting a lot like Kai would do nothing whatsoever, when all things considered Kai should easily get the first move here, which would cripple Nagi, if not straight up kill him. As for the Ikki comparison, speed is equal and Ikki's skill is not superior to Kai's.
Your shadow does move as you turn your body; it's literally just where your body is blocking light. Also I've explained why coming behind Kai won't catch him off-guard. Put me down for Kai
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- #40
1. Nope, just a handwave is all it takes to summon it. Besides it's standard equipment, he starts with the dagger already in his hands.
2. Yes he moves through the shadows, yes that's true. It's not like Kai can follow him or predic where he would come up. And as i said he can just take his hand out and stabby stabby. I never said it's instant, but it might as well be as Kai cannot do anything in the mean time, except to wait to be stabbed by a hand from a place he doesn't know.
3. Even then nagi can just shadow bind him inside the shadow world to keep him from escaping.
4. Not really. And yeah "speed is equal here" whereas Ikki was faster yet he stll couldn't get the first move. And that is arguable at best. Him having 500 years of experience doesn't mean much without feats. Him having 500 years of kung fu experience means nothing against a guy who has mastered 128 sword fighting styles by the age of 15, is a master at using all types of weapons including spears and other kinds, is stupidly good at hand to hand combat being able to bring out 100% of his power channeling his energy to effortlessly stop even stronger people, disarm, dodge, hit, etc, can copy any swordfighting style with a mere glance, can fight and copy while unconscious, can perfectly abuse the living bodies, knows all about the force and vectors, can reflect attacks, can disperse energy by blocking, knows the strength of an opponent from a single glance, knows if the opponent is talented or hard working with a sword clash, is an expert marksman, can predict hits, can understand the biology of someone, stay in the opponent's blind spots 100% of the time, and iirc can even use the pressure points like oogway does. Etc. Kai's age doesn't give him an edge just cus "age ftw" when it comes to skill departament Rakudai is pretty stupid, i don't think anything from Kung Fu Panda can even compare. Yet that still didn't give him a "i hit first cus lol" because he still has to close the distance and stuff, while Nagi can just wave to do his stuff.
5. Go try that actually. Go out in the sun, turn 180 degrees and tell me if your shadow moves in any significant way. And i've explained why he can still catch him off guard by just taking part of his body out to stab. There is no way Kai can hit him first if he's literally coming out from where he needs to stab, he needs to move like what, 2 cm at best.
2. Yes he moves through the shadows, yes that's true. It's not like Kai can follow him or predic where he would come up. And as i said he can just take his hand out and stabby stabby. I never said it's instant, but it might as well be as Kai cannot do anything in the mean time, except to wait to be stabbed by a hand from a place he doesn't know.
3. Even then nagi can just shadow bind him inside the shadow world to keep him from escaping.
4. Not really. And yeah "speed is equal here" whereas Ikki was faster yet he stll couldn't get the first move. And that is arguable at best. Him having 500 years of experience doesn't mean much without feats. Him having 500 years of kung fu experience means nothing against a guy who has mastered 128 sword fighting styles by the age of 15, is a master at using all types of weapons including spears and other kinds, is stupidly good at hand to hand combat being able to bring out 100% of his power channeling his energy to effortlessly stop even stronger people, disarm, dodge, hit, etc, can copy any swordfighting style with a mere glance, can fight and copy while unconscious, can perfectly abuse the living bodies, knows all about the force and vectors, can reflect attacks, can disperse energy by blocking, knows the strength of an opponent from a single glance, knows if the opponent is talented or hard working with a sword clash, is an expert marksman, can predict hits, can understand the biology of someone, stay in the opponent's blind spots 100% of the time, and iirc can even use the pressure points like oogway does. Etc. Kai's age doesn't give him an edge just cus "age ftw" when it comes to skill departament Rakudai is pretty stupid, i don't think anything from Kung Fu Panda can even compare. Yet that still didn't give him a "i hit first cus lol" because he still has to close the distance and stuff, while Nagi can just wave to do his stuff.
5. Go try that actually. Go out in the sun, turn 180 degrees and tell me if your shadow moves in any significant way. And i've explained why he can still catch him off guard by just taking part of his body out to stab. There is no way Kai can hit him first if he's literally coming out from where he needs to stab, he needs to move like what, 2 cm at best.
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