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My Little Pony: Revisions are Magic! [Part 3]

@EMagolorSoul, you may want to remove the "Tantabus is made of Stars" bit. Those are obviously magical sparkles you're seeing on it.
 
Right.

Keep in mind people, I'm neutral on the 4-A stuff, but I'll advocate with what I can do for both sides.
 
@Medeus

Thanks for helping out.
 
If this 4-A stuff happens, I think my proposal of "At least 4-B, possibly 4-A" could apply since it isn't 100% definitive, yet it is still legit to a certain extent.
 
Okay. Never mind about him then. Hopefully others will be willing to help.
 
You can ask some more discussion moderators and administrators for input help if you wish.

I found the image:

Bolin Christmas
 
Sothis' hair looks like a Christmas Tree and her Sword looks like a Cross, so I think my avi is close enough.

And I saw Zark and ByAsura seemed active, so I asked them.
 
4-A stuff seems too speculative IMO, it isn't like we rate Data-only characters in the real world as Low 2-C or something.

Also, the "possibly" rating comes from an inconsistency in the character's potrayal, I've yet to see a profile slap on that tier solely based on speculation
 
Zark2099 said:
4-A stuff seems too speculative IMO, it isn't like we rate Data-only characters in the real world as Low 2-C or something.
Click to expand...
Speculative based on what? Dreams are repeatedly implied to be real places and even have an entire named universe; or at least reality, where they take place. This isn't remotely the same thing as data characters.

We see the Tantabus try to physically leave the dream via a portal. Characters repeatedly react to pain and sensations as a direct result of the dream itself. Dreams are confirmed by Luna to occur in an actual world. There's plenty implying a dream is an actual place.
 
Implied, not outright stated. Alongside that, we may not know if the Dream World holds the same properties as the Real World, so there's that.
 
Zark2099 said:
Implied, not outright stated. Alongside that, we may not know if the Dream World holds the same properties as the Real World, so there's that.
Click to expand...
So in other words, we need to have our hands held? We can't use whats shown on-screen? And I think you mean "very strongly implied". The Tantabus using a portal to enter the real world is pretty explicit. By that point, it may as well be outright stated.
 
Yes? It is headcanon otherwise then, Tantabus coming through the portal doesn't mean much, there are many verses where characters can enter and come out of dreams, but that doesn't imply the dream world being real
 
A portal is a tear in reality or space-time. You can't open a tear to something that is a mere representation created by the mind. There's nothing to actually tear. False equivalency. I don't care what other verses like to do. Show their dreams operate in the same context of My Little Pony or your examples fail.
 
Last edited:
I agree with Zark. Thank you for helping out.
 
She really hasn't debunked what's been blatantly shown on-screen and tried using other series as examples for her claims.The entire point of attacking the Tantabus was to keep it from entering the portals/tears it created. It's literally and physically entering reality via physical means which is not possible if dreams are no more than mental constructs. Nothing on my side has been debunked.
 
She, but whatevs.

Idk, I'd probably be writing a better argument for this stuff, but right now I kinda gotta go to sleep. I had a particularly rough day today, so I'll be getting back on this an a couple of other threads as well tomorrow
 
The dream world is undoubtedly an actual place. The argument that dreams are mere mental constructs like irl is contradicted by what we actually see in the dreamscape. Particularly when Celestia using Luna's powers enters the dreamscape. She's not in any particular dream, but instead an space between dreams where she is surrounded by multiple dreams for her to travel to. A physical space that keeps dreams seperate from each other is not a mental representation. They can't be mental constructs because in order for Celestia's mind to make a representation of a someone else's dream, she has to know whats going on within said dream. Her mind can't make a mental representation of the events of someone else's dream if she doesn't know what's going on within it.

Not to mention the time Changelings physically dragged Luna out of a dream. Yes, literally dragging her physical body out of a dream she was in. Really, how explicit can you get?
 
I'm still neutral overall, but DarkAnine has mentioned offsite of the dream worlds being physical and not just illusions. There was the example of Scootaloo falling and feeling hurt, which the pain remained when she woke up and returned to the real world. And the Changelings forcing Luna out also sounds like a good example. And yes, creating the Dream Worlds in their sleep is obviously not a feat for everyone. But merging dream worlds could still indicate the feats.

@Zark, sleep well. You do deserve a good rest.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I'm still neutral overall, but DarkAnine has mentioned offsite of the dream worlds being physical and not just illusions. There was the example of Scootaloo falling and feeling hurt, which the pain remained when she woke up and returned to the real world. And the Changelings forcing Luna out also sounds like a good example. And yes, creating the Dream Worlds in their sleep is obviously not a feat for everyone. But merging dream worlds could still indicate the feats.
@Zark, sleep well. You do deserve a good rest.
Click to expand...
The problem being dealt with now is that apparently huge amounts of implication amount to "speculation" and now it needs to be told point blank to our faces to mean anything. Whatever happened to "show don't tell?"
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
And yes, creating the Dream Worlds in their sleep is obviously not a feat for everyone. But merging dream worlds could still indicate the feats.
Click to expand...
Creating the Tantabus, who has shown 4-A feats on a lower scale, should count as an applicable feat too. I'm still neutral too, btw.
 
Promestein also said she won't be of much help due to not knowing much about the verse.
 
Do you honestly need to know anything about a verse to determine whether or not they've displayed sufficient evidence for dream worlds being physical worlds? Yeah, sure, you don't know the verse, but you know what evidence what is and isn't. All she really has to do it determine if the evidence posted is sufficient enough to qualify. Not sure how that requires knowledge on the verse. Watching episodes or not isn't going to stop someone from putting two and two together.

Just saying.
 
Feel free to ask some other administrators and discussion moderators to help out here.
 
I actually sort of agree with Light's reasoning regarding the dream portal this time. Besides, if LoE Midnight ended up being accepted as Low 2-C despite not interacting with anything outside of Sci-Twi's mind, Tantabus, who has shown a more direct ability to break into the real world from the combined dream at any time after it got strong enough to open portals, should, at its peak, be at least on that level as well if not higher.
 
Well, dreams tend to be unreliable to scale from. Just because there may be stars visible in the background during some of your own dreams, this would not mean that the dream environment itself is larger than your immediate surroundings, and in addition this is an immaterial environment, not a physical one, so scaling from one to the other also inherently seems unreliable.
 
Yes, because the human mind lacks the processing power to actually handle making a visual representation of thousands of light years worth of space for your "mental self" to travel to. On the other hand, no one is actually creating the dreams with their minds in My Little Pony, meaning this point is entirely moot.

We literally just went over how the dream world is a physical place and people gave their evidence for it. You need to debunk the claims and evidence before you can say "dreams are immaterial" because we literally just went over this.
 
I do not remember such evidence, so you will have to repeat it, but given the nature of dreams, you would have to prove the size of them to be of a 4-A scale, and the stars to not simply be tiny visual representations.
 
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