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Could be both
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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18
- Thread starter TheRustyOne
- Start date
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Because people are dumb…
They hate a villain if he’s not intelligent enough and then also hate them if they are too intelligent and plan shit out…
Honestly people just get mad fiction is fiction
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While I am a staunch proponent for Overhaul being one of the difficult Quirks theory, it needs to be said that it remains a theory, albeit a very likely one, and not explicitly stated in the story as far as I can recall. So people asking about it have their reasons.
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I would never have guessed some of the reveals in this chapter but I guess the visual indicators were not a coincidence.
Both Tomura and Chisaki get those lines that look like the lines on chips when when they use their quirks. Overhaul's disintegration of the ground also pretty much looked like Decay.
However, there are some differences like how Overhaul just splatters people while decay reduces them into meat chunks in the manga before turning them into dust.
Decay can also keep spreading once touched while Chisaki's disintegration doesn't spread beyond what he intends to destroy.
And I guess Shigaraki only getting one aspect of it made it stronger. He even underwent a Quirk Awakening and got an insane range that was way beyond anything Chisaki could ever do.
All in all, Overhaul as a quirk at least has one of the highest potential in the series. If not for Chisaki's self-hate anti-quirk issues, who knows how far he would have gone.
However, there are some differences like how Overhaul just splatters people while decay reduces them into meat chunks in the manga before turning them into dust.
Decay can also keep spreading once touched while Chisaki's disintegration doesn't spread beyond what he intends to destroy.
And I guess Shigaraki only getting one aspect of it made it stronger. He even underwent a Quirk Awakening and got an insane range that was way beyond anything Chisaki could ever do.
All in all, Overhaul as a quirk at least has one of the highest potential in the series. If not for Chisaki's self-hate anti-quirk issues, who knows how far he would have gone.
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In the recent volume, Horikoshi once again mentioned that Deku is inspired by the poem "Be not defeated by the rain" by Kenji Miyazawa.
Horikoshi is also a huge Spider-man fan and he directly credited Carnage as the inspiration for Deku Overlay.
He is also a huge Star Wars fan and again you can see some inspiration there in stuff like OFA, the Vestige Realm, AFO, etc.
Superman as well has inspired heroes like All Might and Deku in terms of powerset, heroism, and even direct references like "faster than a speeding bullet" - Nagant fight.
For JP works, other inspirations that Horikoshi has directly mentioned are DragonBall and Akira.
You can see some Naruto inspirations especially in the early stages (back in the day people used to call Deku "green Naruto") but I honestly think that's cause MHA started right when Naruto was ending and there were some surface level similarities.
I don't think Deku has much in common with Naruto personality-wise. Their goals also aren't similar at all.
So while I do think, Naruto did inspire some stuff in MHA, it is not that much at least compared to general DC and Marvel comics and other stuff that Horikoshi has mentioned like the poem or even Horikoshi's previous works - My Hero, Tenko, and Shinka Rhapsody all which were pretty much retooled into MHA.
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Rereading Chapter 413 and the 2nd user states that they beat Shigaraki by beating up his soul in his mental world
Soul Manipulation for Deku???
(even though he needs to transfer OFA quirks in order to use it)
Soul Manipulation for Deku???
(even though he needs to transfer OFA quirks in order to use it)
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Rereading Chapter 413 and the 2nd user states that they beat Shigaraki by beating up his soul in his mental world
Soul Manipulation for Deku???
And in this chapter AFO mentions Deku beating Shigaraki with psychic attacks.
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Chapter Translations are out
I think what this chapter signifies is that AFO is a better villain than I or anyone gave him credit for. I always wanted Shigaraki to be the Final Boss and Main Villain and not AFO, but I think this chapter made clear what I've been blind to the whole time... AFO is the true evil in this world and ultimately he's what needs to be taken care of. He is the Emperor to Shigaraki's Darth Vader and that's very clear. He groomed Shigaraki to be the ultimate villain and to be his new body.
Yes, this does take away agency from Shigaraki, but I ultimately think AFO moreso took advantage of pre-existing problems and added fuel to the fires that already existed. Kotaro being a piece of shit father is still his own fault. And Shigaraki choosing to kill his own father was still ultimately his own choice. People choosing to ignore his problems and never reaching out to help Tenko is not AFO's fault, he just took advantage of and knew these societal problems that existed.
But what this chapter truly confirms is that Deku WAS RIGHT IN TRYING TO SAVE SHIGARAKI. He saw deep down that Shigaraki wasn't just a villain and there was more to his story than just being an agent of destruction. If Deku had chosen to kill Shigaraki, then the truth behind everything would've stayed hidden. Shigaraki would have just been a mass murderer that wasn't worth saving because he chose to be a monster. He would have been stuck in the role that AFO groomed him to be in. But thanks to Deku going out of his way to save Shigaraki, he unveiled the truth that Shigaraki was actually a victim since before his birth. He was forced down this path and manipulated along every step of the way. So he was in fact someone worth saving and it was only Deku who found this out. Now it's time for Deku to put down the true final foe and save the world. He just needs a little help to get there.
Yes, this does take away agency from Shigaraki, but I ultimately think AFO moreso took advantage of pre-existing problems and added fuel to the fires that already existed. Kotaro being a piece of shit father is still his own fault. And Shigaraki choosing to kill his own father was still ultimately his own choice. People choosing to ignore his problems and never reaching out to help Tenko is not AFO's fault, he just took advantage of and knew these societal problems that existed.
But what this chapter truly confirms is that Deku WAS RIGHT IN TRYING TO SAVE SHIGARAKI. He saw deep down that Shigaraki wasn't just a villain and there was more to his story than just being an agent of destruction. If Deku had chosen to kill Shigaraki, then the truth behind everything would've stayed hidden. Shigaraki would have just been a mass murderer that wasn't worth saving because he chose to be a monster. He would have been stuck in the role that AFO groomed him to be in. But thanks to Deku going out of his way to save Shigaraki, he unveiled the truth that Shigaraki was actually a victim since before his birth. He was forced down this path and manipulated along every step of the way. So he was in fact someone worth saving and it was only Deku who found this out. Now it's time for Deku to put down the true final foe and save the world. He just needs a little help to get there.
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- Thread starter
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What the.................................
Okay, play by play here. It starts off exactly as I was expecting, AFO revealing he's been responsible for a lot of Tenko's life. Not surprising. What is surprising is finding out that Decay is a modified Overhaul that lacks the ability to reconstruct. So Decay isn't even decay/rotting it's just pure deconstruction like Overhaul.
Might have to remove corrosion inducement at this rate, since he's never really made anything rot to my knowledge, just disintegrate. He disassembles them.
I don't know why Decay is passive and always active, compared to Overhaul which requires a conscious decision to deconstruct. I guess the point was that he removed everything but destruction, that includes the ability to choose when to activate it I guess? Currently a big shock but nothing too out of the way besides that right now.
This appears to be the trump card AFO was saving so he'd have total control of the body.
Tomura breaks down and Izuku gets blown out of the vestige world. All For One has control but Tomura/Tenko is still in there as he's screaming out, AFO has to silence him by using a copy of that hand. Decay is gone and he can't feel Tomura's anger/hatred anymore either. Of course we all know that he isn't gone.
Tomura/Tenko wasn't Decay after all, meaning his soul/mind still exist inside of him. That body is not going to be AFO's by the end of this, though I can't say what condition it'd be in by the end either. Tomura dying at the end of this is still possible, especially with all of the Star Wars parallels.
However, massive problem I never saw coming. IZUKU's ARM ARE FREAKING GONE!? What the bloody hell? I literally never saw that coming unless it was the result from the end of the entire war. Maybe Eri's going to need to Rewind after all, I think he could use some help. Would be a good time to learn what Eri's Quirk stocks up as well.
Better hope that blast destroyed Hatsume's drone since Inko is going to literally have a heart attack at seeing her son lose his damn arms. Also in the panel where Izuku says it's not over yet, we can see something in the shadows. Will have to wait until the official scans to come out so we can see what it is.
Sero, Ojiro, and Sato doing something? What in the holy hell is going on here? We all thought their moment would happen in another battlefield, but it's happening here? Aizawa is back with Kurogiri/Shirakumo helping him, obviously we have lots of options that just opened up.
Warping is now possible and Aizawa can keep his Quirks erased for a little bit as well. And I'm certain Tomura's body is still weak as it heals from the damage he sustain in the mental world. Okay, let me try to digest and see where this is all going. Obviously Sero, Ojiro, and Sato are not defeating AFO even with Aizawa's help.
Highly doubt his body will stay weak, so he'll be getting stronger and Aizawa can't keep his Quirks erased for long. Ignoring the fact he has no cover, though maybe he brought Monoma as well. Tomura/Tenko is not dead, and might even be the one who kills AFO in the end.
But regardless, he's still in there as shown with the hand covering his mouth. What I said before still applies, even if he's empty inside Tomura cannot stop moving, because he's going to the villains' hero.
None of them follow AFO and his World Domination stick is something they don't want, so stopping him is good motivation, he just needs to realize that. This would be good time as any to finally get confirmation on the other LoV members status as well, especially if Aizawa's been warping around the battlefields.
Izuku isn't done, Eri's Rewind is the only way I can see him getting his arms back, but maybe they'll just stop the bleeding and he'll fights with his legs.
I'm still sold on AFO being taken out by Tomura/Tenko, obviously there'd be no other way since killing Tomura's body isn't really a good conclusion to this story. Tomura's on the verge of finally realizing and doing something, and I trust that it's going to be spectacular. Also, I'm convinced he isn't going to get arrested at this point.
I believe this is the make or break it part of the ending, this will decide if you love or hate this final battle.
Sero restrained Tomura and Sato and Ojiro knocked him back. Class T Tape and High 6-C Sugarman and Tailman confirmed boys!!!
Okay, play by play here. It starts off exactly as I was expecting, AFO revealing he's been responsible for a lot of Tenko's life. Not surprising. What is surprising is finding out that Decay is a modified Overhaul that lacks the ability to reconstruct. So Decay isn't even decay/rotting it's just pure deconstruction like Overhaul.
Might have to remove corrosion inducement at this rate, since he's never really made anything rot to my knowledge, just disintegrate. He disassembles them.
I don't know why Decay is passive and always active, compared to Overhaul which requires a conscious decision to deconstruct. I guess the point was that he removed everything but destruction, that includes the ability to choose when to activate it I guess? Currently a big shock but nothing too out of the way besides that right now.
This appears to be the trump card AFO was saving so he'd have total control of the body.
Tomura breaks down and Izuku gets blown out of the vestige world. All For One has control but Tomura/Tenko is still in there as he's screaming out, AFO has to silence him by using a copy of that hand. Decay is gone and he can't feel Tomura's anger/hatred anymore either. Of course we all know that he isn't gone.
Tomura/Tenko wasn't Decay after all, meaning his soul/mind still exist inside of him. That body is not going to be AFO's by the end of this, though I can't say what condition it'd be in by the end either. Tomura dying at the end of this is still possible, especially with all of the Star Wars parallels.
However, massive problem I never saw coming. IZUKU's ARM ARE FREAKING GONE!? What the bloody hell? I literally never saw that coming unless it was the result from the end of the entire war. Maybe Eri's going to need to Rewind after all, I think he could use some help. Would be a good time to learn what Eri's Quirk stocks up as well.
Better hope that blast destroyed Hatsume's drone since Inko is going to literally have a heart attack at seeing her son lose his damn arms. Also in the panel where Izuku says it's not over yet, we can see something in the shadows. Will have to wait until the official scans to come out so we can see what it is.
Sero, Ojiro, and Sato doing something? What in the holy hell is going on here? We all thought their moment would happen in another battlefield, but it's happening here? Aizawa is back with Kurogiri/Shirakumo helping him, obviously we have lots of options that just opened up.
Warping is now possible and Aizawa can keep his Quirks erased for a little bit as well. And I'm certain Tomura's body is still weak as it heals from the damage he sustain in the mental world. Okay, let me try to digest and see where this is all going. Obviously Sero, Ojiro, and Sato are not defeating AFO even with Aizawa's help.
Highly doubt his body will stay weak, so he'll be getting stronger and Aizawa can't keep his Quirks erased for long. Ignoring the fact he has no cover, though maybe he brought Monoma as well. Tomura/Tenko is not dead, and might even be the one who kills AFO in the end.
But regardless, he's still in there as shown with the hand covering his mouth. What I said before still applies, even if he's empty inside Tomura cannot stop moving, because he's going to the villains' hero.
None of them follow AFO and his World Domination stick is something they don't want, so stopping him is good motivation, he just needs to realize that. This would be good time as any to finally get confirmation on the other LoV members status as well, especially if Aizawa's been warping around the battlefields.
Izuku isn't done, Eri's Rewind is the only way I can see him getting his arms back, but maybe they'll just stop the bleeding and he'll fights with his legs.
I'm still sold on AFO being taken out by Tomura/Tenko, obviously there'd be no other way since killing Tomura's body isn't really a good conclusion to this story. Tomura's on the verge of finally realizing and doing something, and I trust that it's going to be spectacular. Also, I'm convinced he isn't going to get arrested at this point.
I believe this is the make or break it part of the ending, this will decide if you love or hate this final battle.
We're about to enter some crazy territory boys. To be honest, any prediction I make can be completely wrong for all I know at this point. All I know is that the wait for the next chapter is going to be eating away at me until it comes out, I don't think I've ever been this tense before.
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Horikoshi has genuinely given me a masterclass of exciting, unpredictable, and fun storytelling
At this point, I trust completely that he'll deliver on the finale
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- Thread starter
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Decay and Overhaul being the same Quirk is so interesting. If Tenko just had the destruction portion of Overhaul, why did he need all five of his fingers to destroy something? Overhaul could destroy with a single finger just fine, was it something Chisaki needed to learn later on? We know Tomura did it with two fingers later, so maybe it started with needed all five fingers and he just never trained his Quirk to work like that?
This twist had to have been planned since Chisaki's creation at least. As Gigaton said above, the line marks of Overhaul and Decay's activation have always been similar, if not identical. However, I'm pretty sure we all just thought that was a design choice, not meant to be a hint that they're the same.
Lots of people have even called Decay a worse version of Overhaul until the Meta Liberation Army arc. The evolutions of their Quirks being different is fine since the users have different mindsets. Decay became better at destroying due to his intense emotions for destruction, letting him spread that across objects.
Also, guess this shuts the argument about AFO being stupid for not taking Chisaki's Quirk in Tartarus. He's already had access to it long ago and obviously doesn't need it. Guess that means Overhaul couldn't be used to heal his injuries either. Obviously if it could he would've used it already.
It's weird that I didn't see anyone theories that Decay and Overhaul were connected in some way.
Especially when we found out the Chisaki was raised in AFO's and the Doctor's Orphanage. The design of Chisaki's room is very similar to were Dabi woke up in. Considering the Yakuza boss found Chisaki all alone, I wonder if he found him after Dabi had burned the building down and had nowhere else to go with it destroyed.
Seriously, I think this is the biggest twist hitting me outside of Izuku losing his damn arms. And it doesn't feel like it came out of nowhere or is an ass-pull, lots of things fit into place and I can see it's been set up years ago. AFO telling Tomura about Chisaki could've been because of this as well, bet he was laughing inside while doing it.
So many ideas and possibilities just jumped into my head because of this.
Honestly, I didn't think Horikoshi could actually surprise me anymore. Glad to see the man proved me wrong real quick, because this was something else.
Seriously, the wait for the next chapter will kill me.
This twist had to have been planned since Chisaki's creation at least. As Gigaton said above, the line marks of Overhaul and Decay's activation have always been similar, if not identical. However, I'm pretty sure we all just thought that was a design choice, not meant to be a hint that they're the same.
Lots of people have even called Decay a worse version of Overhaul until the Meta Liberation Army arc. The evolutions of their Quirks being different is fine since the users have different mindsets. Decay became better at destroying due to his intense emotions for destruction, letting him spread that across objects.
Also, guess this shuts the argument about AFO being stupid for not taking Chisaki's Quirk in Tartarus. He's already had access to it long ago and obviously doesn't need it. Guess that means Overhaul couldn't be used to heal his injuries either. Obviously if it could he would've used it already.
It's weird that I didn't see anyone theories that Decay and Overhaul were connected in some way.
Especially when we found out the Chisaki was raised in AFO's and the Doctor's Orphanage. The design of Chisaki's room is very similar to were Dabi woke up in. Considering the Yakuza boss found Chisaki all alone, I wonder if he found him after Dabi had burned the building down and had nowhere else to go with it destroyed.
Seriously, I think this is the biggest twist hitting me outside of Izuku losing his damn arms. And it doesn't feel like it came out of nowhere or is an ass-pull, lots of things fit into place and I can see it's been set up years ago. AFO telling Tomura about Chisaki could've been because of this as well, bet he was laughing inside while doing it.
So many ideas and possibilities just jumped into my head because of this.
Honestly, I didn't think Horikoshi could actually surprise me anymore. Glad to see the man proved me wrong real quick, because this was something else.
Seriously, the wait for the next chapter will kill me.
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I’m currently subscribed to Overhaul coming back in these final moments. Eri has been established as unable to rewind people right now, and it would be fitting for the Quirk AFO originally copied and banked his entire plans of destruction on to be the cause of his downfall.
In the other hand idk what Horikoshi is doing and never have, as any guesses always come with several layers of other things on top of them. So for all I know Deku could just fight the rest of this war with no arms. Time will tell.
Also I sure do hope Hatsume’s drone broke too cause if not Inko is either on life support or in shock.
As for that thing in the shadow, when Deku is saying it’s not over yet… it looks like fire.
And we all know what that means.
Deku absolutely still has One For All, the embers like All Might or maybe just the base power that has been built up. So he’s gonna get up and start Shoot Styling all over the place with all the power he has left, and likely force another connection to free the lingering memory of Tenko and everyone else trapped and broken within All For One.
How the story gets there? Who else shows up to fight? How this tale ends? I have no god damn clue.
I am seated.
In the other hand idk what Horikoshi is doing and never have, as any guesses always come with several layers of other things on top of them. So for all I know Deku could just fight the rest of this war with no arms. Time will tell.
Also I sure do hope Hatsume’s drone broke too cause if not Inko is either on life support or in shock.
As for that thing in the shadow, when Deku is saying it’s not over yet… it looks like fire.
And we all know what that means.
Deku absolutely still has One For All, the embers like All Might or maybe just the base power that has been built up. So he’s gonna get up and start Shoot Styling all over the place with all the power he has left, and likely force another connection to free the lingering memory of Tenko and everyone else trapped and broken within All For One.
How the story gets there? Who else shows up to fight? How this tale ends? I have no god damn clue.
I am seated.
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New movie teaser is out, and who could have guessed the All Might wannabe would seek to replicate All Might’s strength.
Mapl3Sy4up
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Seeing an All Might Face as evil is so uncanny
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What a ******* cope out. Shigaraki just got murdered as a characther and was just a puppet who never made a single decision in his life. How convenient.
Horikoshi probably didn't knew how to make deku save him from his hate so he just made shigaraki non evil in the first place, it was all AFO from the begining.
Horikoshi probably didn't knew how to make deku save him from his hate so he just made shigaraki non evil in the first place, it was all AFO from the begining.
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MF named himself "Dark Might" this dude is so unserious lol
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Dark Deku be like “Well that’s derivative”
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I wonder if this movie makes it self canon or is, what would it be placed in the timeline?
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Second one will forever be peak to me, but yeah this fourth movie is not looking too hot rn
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Right before the final war
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4th movie appears to be possibly the most inconsequential, but it hopefully explains the power progression like the 3rd movie did.
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So everything I said before still stands. This is an incredibly upsetting, stupid development. AFO being responsible for everything doesn't make him cool, it just makes the story lazy and confusing. As I already said, if AFO had a copy of Overhaul, why the hell didn't he ever keep one for himself? Why would he never use it to repair his injuries after his battle with All Might? Why wouldn't he just use Overhaul to merge himself with Tomura and take over once Tomura had acquired enough hatred? From what it looks like, the user of Overhaul has complete control over their body. Chisaki appeared to have complete control when he fused with Shin and later with Rikiya, so why wouldn't AFO try to do the same? And why wouldn't he keep a copy of such an unbelievably powerful Quirk for himself? Think of how many problems he could've solved if he had such a powerful Quirk on-hand. It doesn't make AFO look like a genius, it just makes him look like an idiot.
And how the hell would AFO convince Kotaro to have another child? Like how can a random guy Kotaro had met would suddenly be able to persuade him to have another kid? Even for AFO, it makes absolutely no sense, and the fact that this supposed convincing happens off-screen makes it even worse. Now, it just takes away basically all of Tomura's agency and makes him look like a pathetic villain who could never do anything for himself. And how can you possibly argue Decay looks similar to Overhaul? I see absolutely no similarities in the manner in which their decomposition aspects work. It's incredibly jarring and out of nowhere for Garaki to suddenly be able to modify how aspects of Quirks work as well. Nothing like that was ever hinted beforehand: Garaki could only copy Quirks and implant them into other people but not change the nature of how they operate.
Even AFO giving Tomura his Quirk doesn't make sense. It's been shown several times beforehand that taking another person's Quirk causes them to become briefly immobile and incapacitated, but no effects were shown when giving Tomura his Quirk. And to think Tomura himself didn't feel anything when he had his Quirk taken from him is very odd, too. It just doesn't mesh well at all with what's been presented before.
This development has made the rest of the story uninteresting. It seems as though the only thing the heroes need to do to improve society is to defeat one bad guy, as if society's problems are solely the fault of one individual. This chapter has left me feeling upset and let down, and AFO's presence has worn out its welcome.
And how the hell would AFO convince Kotaro to have another child? Like how can a random guy Kotaro had met would suddenly be able to persuade him to have another kid? Even for AFO, it makes absolutely no sense, and the fact that this supposed convincing happens off-screen makes it even worse. Now, it just takes away basically all of Tomura's agency and makes him look like a pathetic villain who could never do anything for himself. And how can you possibly argue Decay looks similar to Overhaul? I see absolutely no similarities in the manner in which their decomposition aspects work. It's incredibly jarring and out of nowhere for Garaki to suddenly be able to modify how aspects of Quirks work as well. Nothing like that was ever hinted beforehand: Garaki could only copy Quirks and implant them into other people but not change the nature of how they operate.
Even AFO giving Tomura his Quirk doesn't make sense. It's been shown several times beforehand that taking another person's Quirk causes them to become briefly immobile and incapacitated, but no effects were shown when giving Tomura his Quirk. And to think Tomura himself didn't feel anything when he had his Quirk taken from him is very odd, too. It just doesn't mesh well at all with what's been presented before.
This development has made the rest of the story uninteresting. It seems as though the only thing the heroes need to do to improve society is to defeat one bad guy, as if society's problems are solely the fault of one individual. This chapter has left me feeling upset and let down, and AFO's presence has worn out its welcome.
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AFO also stated that he was able to delete Shigaraki’s soul to kill his control in the vestige world
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I've always thought there were some strong similarities between Decay and Overhaul tbh. And it was foreshadowed that Chisaki was in one of All For One's orphanages.
Also Garaki did modify Shirakumo's Quirk when he made him into Kurogiri.
Also Garaki did modify Shirakumo's Quirk when he made him into Kurogiri.
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Honestly don’t care for the AFO twist either 
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Overhaul cannot heal AFO's injuries, I don't know why people find this so hard to believe but it's true. If it could, he would've found some way of using it. The fact we now know he had access to the Quirk is proof enough of this fact, when beforehand that was just speculation.
But now we know, Overhaul cannot heal AFO's wounds for certain. It's called showing not telling. Until now I was fine with ignoring people who thought Overhaul should be able to heal AFO's wounds, since we have no evidence he was aware of Overhaul. But now we know he does and unless you think Horikoshi can't do basic thinking, it should be obvious that this tells us that Overhaul cannot be used to fix himself.
The Japan's Society, Toga, Twice, Meta Liberation Army, Gentle Criminal, Lady Nagant, and heck AFO only involvement in Toya was keeping him alive. Even Chisaki ended up leaving AFO's care and ended up doing his own thing without AFO's guidance or influence. AFO is not behind everything nor does defeating him solve everything either.
Defeating AFO doesn't solve any of the problems above. Toga's parents didn't treat her like garbage because AFO was whispering in their ears. Endeavor didn't beat the crap out of Shoto and neglected Toya because of AFO. Twice wasn't alone in life because of AFO. Gentle didn't become a criminal because of AFO and so on and on.
AFO is not responsible for everything, only in regards to Tomura's life. Which was pretty much heavily speculated for years at this point, ever since we saw Tenko's life. However, I don't see anything suggesting he convinced Kotaro to have another child. Just that he should have a family that looks out for themselves instead of relying on heroes. He just became a "friend" to Kotaro and slightly influenced him based on the trauma of being abandoned by Nana.
Considering I'm certain Nana unknowingly put Kotaro in the Doctor's care, same looking building, he's known about Kotaro for decades until that point. Not only that be he was mostly guiding Tomura and freely admits things didn't go his way exactly, he had to adjust his plans accordingly.
At this point you're purposefully ignoring everything to fit your own narrative, because I don't understand how you jumped to this conclusion beyond you hating AFO.
Nothing is solved by defeating AFO, he's just an evil man, a villain who caused lots of problems. Explained to me how defeating AFO is going to solve people from treating people like Toga and Shinso as evil just because of their powers?
Heck, Tomura's defining moment wasn't even caused by AFO to our knowledge yet. Were everyone ignored the small child covered in blood because he looked creepy, and thinking a hero would save him regardless. The complacency of society is an issue regardless of AFO, and is not improved by punching his face away.
Note: I don't care if you dislike the "twist", not really a twist since so many people saw this coming like Dabi being Toya. But you're idea that AFO caused everything in the verse and it'll be solved by defeating him is factually wrong no matter how much you want to twist it.
But now we know, Overhaul cannot heal AFO's wounds for certain. It's called showing not telling. Until now I was fine with ignoring people who thought Overhaul should be able to heal AFO's wounds, since we have no evidence he was aware of Overhaul. But now we know he does and unless you think Horikoshi can't do basic thinking, it should be obvious that this tells us that Overhaul cannot be used to fix himself.
The Japan's Society, Toga, Twice, Meta Liberation Army, Gentle Criminal, Lady Nagant, and heck AFO only involvement in Toya was keeping him alive. Even Chisaki ended up leaving AFO's care and ended up doing his own thing without AFO's guidance or influence. AFO is not behind everything nor does defeating him solve everything either.
Defeating AFO doesn't solve any of the problems above. Toga's parents didn't treat her like garbage because AFO was whispering in their ears. Endeavor didn't beat the crap out of Shoto and neglected Toya because of AFO. Twice wasn't alone in life because of AFO. Gentle didn't become a criminal because of AFO and so on and on.
AFO is not responsible for everything, only in regards to Tomura's life. Which was pretty much heavily speculated for years at this point, ever since we saw Tenko's life. However, I don't see anything suggesting he convinced Kotaro to have another child. Just that he should have a family that looks out for themselves instead of relying on heroes. He just became a "friend" to Kotaro and slightly influenced him based on the trauma of being abandoned by Nana.
Considering I'm certain Nana unknowingly put Kotaro in the Doctor's care, same looking building, he's known about Kotaro for decades until that point. Not only that be he was mostly guiding Tomura and freely admits things didn't go his way exactly, he had to adjust his plans accordingly.
At this point you're purposefully ignoring everything to fit your own narrative, because I don't understand how you jumped to this conclusion beyond you hating AFO.
Nothing is solved by defeating AFO, he's just an evil man, a villain who caused lots of problems. Explained to me how defeating AFO is going to solve people from treating people like Toga and Shinso as evil just because of their powers?
Heck, Tomura's defining moment wasn't even caused by AFO to our knowledge yet. Were everyone ignored the small child covered in blood because he looked creepy, and thinking a hero would save him regardless. The complacency of society is an issue regardless of AFO, and is not improved by punching his face away.
Note: I don't care if you dislike the "twist", not really a twist since so many people saw this coming like Dabi being Toya. But you're idea that AFO caused everything in the verse and it'll be solved by defeating him is factually wrong no matter how much you want to twist it.
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It really doesn't, AFO was already in control of everything in Shigaraki's life after he turned like 5 or some shit.
Does Overhaul regen you? Also, doesn't severe damage make him lose Quirks sometimes?
Those guys don't have Shigaraki's level of willpower.
I mean, you can say that for most Quirks he had access to. He can obviously copy Quirks via... idk, science?, so why not use Blueflame or Decay or Compress or whatever they're all called?
"Hey, you don't want to have a child? Why is that? Here, problem solved or reasoning debunked. I'm related to you btw."
AFO was the reason for everything except him killing his family already. A powerful man that's still powerless, that is the whole point of Shiggy's narrative..
He was baby, it hadn't manifested yet.
Big bad guy does a lot of big bad guy things and creates other bad guy = big bad guy is the only problem, I guess. Yknow what? A lot of problems do start because of one or two people. That doesn't mean beating them will stop it, it'll just make it get a bit better. That's life.
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Like I said before, AFO isn’t responsible for everything. He moreso just adds fuel to fire. He makes pre-existing problems worst essentially. Him saying he is entirely behind everything Tenkp has ever done is his way of manipulating and breaking him mentally, but the truth is Kotaro chose to abuse Tenko, Tenko chose to kill his father, Society chose to ignore Tenko. Tomura Shigaraki was groomed to be a villain, but not every single decision was exactly the fault of AFO. And we’ve seen Tomura reject and defy AFO many times along this path. Shigaraki being annoyed by everything and ultimately wanting to destroy it all is still his own choice. Him wanting to be a hero to villains is also something he wanted for himself. I don’t think Shigaraki will ever be redeemed, but he clearly isn’t done yet and will surely defy AFO once more. People who say this somehow ruins the plot, Shigaraki, or AFO are silly… Because these details were foreshadowed very clearly. I mean come on Tenko is Nana Shimura’s grandson, it was clear Shigaraki was hand picked since we first met AFO
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Yeah, and it seems weird that some people think that the alternative is much more plausible; that All For One just happened to stumble across the grandson of his nemesis after he conveniently killed off his entire family. The situation couldn't look any more tailor-made to suit AFO's plans, and it turns out it was.
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