Musō Tensei

[Promestein]

So, after finishing Hokuto no Ken recently and reading several other materials, I have not found anything that even implies that Musō Tensei erases people / destroys atoms. All the dialogue from the original manga about it focus on the intangibility and communicating with the dead parts; and though, in their fight, Raoh and Kenshiro pass through each other and injure each other with Musō Tensei, it does not say anything about erasure. It just seems to harm people it passes through, at best. And that fight is really the only time that it's used like that; in every other scenario, it's used for the intangibility.

The wiki and other resources say nothing about any kind of erasure, either. It seems to be a myth spread through the versus debating community.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Ah.

Well if that's how it really is, then perhaps it needs to be redefined and adjusted then.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well it should be changed then.

 

[Shock97]

I asked about this awhile ago and a quote was provided from a game (I think) that explained the existence erasure. It should be brought up at somepoint in this conversation.

 

[Promestein]

I found this thread, which mentions it but doesn't seem to bring up any sources for it.

Even if it was from a game, that seems contradictory to how it's used in canon, and can we really use information from a game when it comes to this?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Here's the exact sca, but it feels really fishy if it comes from a video game and not the original manga.

 

[Promestein]

Thank you, Ever. And yeah. In the manga, it's never used directly offensively like that and is never described like that. So using it seems inaccurate.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Eh, I actually figured things like this would be brought up into question.

 

[The_Everlasting]

In that case, I see no problem with removing it.

What's your opinion on his other abilities? Are they all legitimate?

 

[Promestein]

From what I've seen, yes. Hokuto Shinken has a lot of shit.

 

[Promestein]

I removed the erasure-related things.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Alright

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Going to relay Grudgemans message to this thread.

Okay I see the problem here.@Promestein. Let me clear up some misconceptions here and explain to you why museo tensei erases from existence. First let me clear up they museo tensei doesn't specifically erase atoms, it erases ones exist even but in the past people assumed atoms was what he meant by existence. Next I'll provide some examples of Kenshiro using museo tensei to erase things. First the one to explicitly hint about museo tensei having erasure existence was in fact from the prequel to HNK, in it we have a scene where kasumi is unconscious and liu Zongwu is about to finish him off.

However liu noticed kasumi turned black and his fighters instinct told him to stay away from kasumi and realized that he must be using museo tensei. Than goes in to say if her were plunge his fist into the unconscious body he would surely die(insert pic of liu zongwu stating that. Next as we see here(insert pic of fat man getting arms erased from Kenshiro.) Kenshiro is awoken from his coma against kaioh.

And is harassed by this Fat shura lord and the poor chump decides to charge at him. However as stated above by Kenshiro he was not in a good mood in fact I would go to say he was semi bloodlusted indicated by the fact he would have spared him or cause him severe but no lethal pain. However instead he gets his arms erased. His arms were not cut nor blown up in anyway. They were completely erased to the point the fat lord didn't even realize he lost his arms.

Next evidence is when Ken fights a Gento ko Ken user. Now to briefly describe gento ko Ken. Its a martial art that works by erasing openers with ki attacks on the cellular level. So every attack they throw is meant to erase on the cellular level and ignore durability. Now then solia, the man Kenshiro is. Fighting is preparing to finish if Ken with a move that wraps his around his hands to erase Ken. However as shown here(insert image of ken dating hokuto Shinken never vanishes.)(insert image of Ken going through the mans Arm and in bottom left panel you see the arm getting erased.)

Kenshiro states hokuto shinken will never vanish. Than as shown performs museo tensei, now your probably going to ask how is it u know he used museo tensei. Well for starters not all moves are stated after every attack, I can provide you multiple moments in the series where Ken performs an iconic or recognizable move and does not yell out its name.

The only time he does that is when the story is trying to introduce a new move. Also his body in the first picture posted above shows Kenshiros aura flowing the same way museo tensei flows. Plus the fact Kenshiro was able to bypas gento ko kens cellular erasing ki means he was erasing on a much higher level i.e. Museo tensei.

As I've stated to prom and other before, Fist of the North Star has many unknown techniques that are not given an name within the manga. And indicated by others theirs plenty of different moves the HNK characters have at their disposal, they just don't always display it or even give it a name for that matter for us to know.

This is where the games come in. One of the the producers of this game, said in an interview about the how the game will be made and I quote " Hisashi Koinuma, the game's producer said that the staff aim to create a "new realistic feel" for the Fist of the North Star series while still being faithful to the original's roots."

Not only that but creators of HNK Buronson and tetsuo hara themselves have gone on record to express enthusiasm and support for the game.(he'll tetsuo hara even made a promo video sponsored by koei for the game.) So the games provide clear cut "canon" definitions for the moves and gives them names and description as to what each move does. And within the game the description for museo tensei as I linked on his profile is it's able to erase people from existence(Both the first and sequel to the game have the exact definition, nothing about it was changed I can link scans if asked.)

Because of this definition I can boldly say this is where the whole "Kenshiro erases atoms" rumor can from. Museo tensei in the manga and other mediums have said that it's made up of nothingness and that all life itself comes from nothingness. Kenshiro and raoh didn't erase each other was because he and Kens museo tensei cancelled each other out but still ended up erasing their clothes and leaving them in a critical state.

Kenshiro can choose whether to erase or phase through someone(as indicated by how kasumi wasn't conscious when he used museo tensei and his body had him set to erase anything that threatens him.) This should finally put to rest the misconceptions of museo tensei.

Relevant images:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

 

[Promestein]

I must have missed that. Anyways. I have no rebuttals there, then, and I can undo the changes.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

That's that then.