Murder drones CRT: major revisions

[Soul80]

The value is the distance teleported. You need to know the distance so you can index it with the correct range tier.

Yeah that's why we calculated it
So people can understand it

 

[Soul80]

The comic part seems a bit of a gag to take seriously, while the clips just seem to be speed feats.

Not really gag if it's happened twice

 

[Mythic381]

I mean it makes the most logical sense in this situation(so falls under Occam's Razor). Also wouldn't it still be madness manip?

Not going to agree with "something something Occam's Razor says so" as I've mentioned other instances that we know the solver can do. Occam's Razor would actually support my argument because it's easier to assume what we know the solver can do than assume something we haven't seen it do.

But yes, inducing someone with so much information that it would cause madness would be indexed as madness manip

I don't see how this counts as a "gag" + I don't think them just randomly perception blitzing each other would make much sense and it seems pretty consistent.

"load epic slow-motion fight sequence" is literally the definition of a gag that isn't meant to be taken seriously. It also wouldn't make sense for it to be just self-perception amplification, yet N could also move fast enough to stop Uzi from getting hit by the pickaxe, that would still be a speed feat.

Because she could still regenerate her finger which is done via the AbsoluteSolver as explained in Ep 4.

It negated her use of the solver, don't think it negated passive abilities, which is why Uzi could regenerate, but still couldn't at all use her solver properly.

Yeah that's why we calculated it
So people can understand it

You denied the notion it has "any value" which it does as I mentioned.

Not really gag if it's happened twice

No? The first one is still pretty clearly a gag, the second seems somewhat vague to say the least.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

No? Uzi could teleport them too...

Uzi only used teleportation once when she was in a state of mental distress, it's not exactly something she'd normally use, and even then, I'm not even sure if the Solver could teleport others or other objects too.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Should staff be brought in? (Idk, I'm new here)

 

[Mythic381]

Should staff be brought in? (Idk, I'm new here)

A CRT can't be accepted without staff votes.

• Minor CRTs require 1 vote.
• Normal CRTs require 2 votes.
• Tier 1 CRTs usually require 3.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

I don't think J attempting to repair the ship qualifies for genius it'd probably be more like above average or gifted at best.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

A CRT can't be accepted without staff votes.

• Minor CRTs require 1 vote.
• Normal CRTs require 2 votes.
• Tier 1 CRTs usually require 3.

Is staff going to be brought in soon? It's about 4 pages in and it doesn't seem like much has been settled.

 

[Mythic381]

Is staff going to be brought in soon? It's about 4 pages in and it doesn't seem like much has been settled.

Usually we either wait for staff input, or just message them on their message walls. It's not guaranteed to work, as lots of threads are left to die.

 

[Soul80]

Not going to agree with "something something Occam's Razor says so" as I've mentioned other instances that we know the solver can do. Occam's Razor would actually support my argument because it's easier to assume what we know the solver can do than assume something we haven't seen it do.

Agree or disagree wouldn't be matter. it's your votes at this thread whatever you want for it. @RealDuker98 need a actually argument which should support your reason, he simple said that it's Occam razor since you ignored most of supports evidences there and said "it's just speed feats" "it's just gag" "it's vague" without any actual objectively explanation or at least evidences prove it and no, it's just disproved entire argument.
We simple don't know how absolute solver works in all aspects therefore and assumptions without any support evidences should be useless , so it will be better to give actual haxes rather than reasoning from nothing.

But yes, inducing someone with so much information that it would cause madness would be indexed as madness manip

At we agreed on this

"load epic slow-motion fight sequence" is literally the definition of a gag that isn't meant to be taken seriously. It also wouldn't make sense for it to be just self-perception amplification, yet N could also move fast enough to stop Uzi from getting hit by the pickaxe, that would still be a speed feat.

You can't use a simple phrase for actual evidence that it's gag... In the fact we should understand that murder drones is comedic-horror series so it's obviously that comic's which based on the series itself will have those comedic elements but we still can't ignore them.
It does, Uzi saw J blades in slow motion which should amplified her prepection , we literally saw through his prepection that he saw a pickaxe in slow motion so whatever when you try to bring the same speed feats , it's still consistent for their prepection, you're also ignored other examples btw

It negated her use of the solver, don't think it negated passive abilities, which is why Uzi could regenerate, but still couldn't at all use her solver properly.

Solver is literally her passive abilities due the fact that every Regen abilities are just subset of the solver abilities, that's one of reasons why N didn't continue regenerate it, even so , it's still apply to the same resistance as she can overcome magnets nullification after this.

You denied the notion it has "any value" which it does as I mentioned.

Do you even understand what I mean by "value" ? I was talked a general values which needs to be acception like speed or DC feats, it doesn't need for the same range.

No? The first one is still pretty clearly a gag, the second seems somewhat vague to say the least.

Zero elaborate neither give actual justification for this so I'll just ignore your statement because I don't see a purpose for me to respond on argument which cannot even be a vaild argument

 

[Mythic381]

he simple said that it's Occam razor since you ignored most of supports evidences there and said "it's just speed feats" "it's just gag" "it's vague" without any actual objectively explanation or at least evidences prove it and no, it's just disproved entire argument.

Why are you bringing up arguments unrelated to this one? Occam's Razor favors me via the fact I'm arguing something we know the solver can do, rather than assume it has a whole new ability.

We simple don't know how absolute solver works in all aspects therefore and assumptions without any support evidences should be useless , so it will be better to give actual haxes rather than reasoning from nothing.

So it's better to assume a whole new ability for the solver, when you can instead argue it does that via an ability it already has and has shown it being used?

You can't use a simple phrase for actual evidence that it's gag... In the fact we should understand that murder drones is comedic-horror series so it's obviously that comic's which based on the series itself will have those comedic elements but we still can't ignore them.

It literally says "load epic slow-motion fight sequence" that's literally a known and overused trope for fight scenes. It's clearly referencing it as a joke.

It does, Uzi saw J blades in slow motion which should amplified her prepection , we literally saw through his prepection that he saw a pickaxe in slow motion so whatever when you try to bring the same speed feats , it's still consistent for their prepection, you're also ignored other examples btw

First off, the slow-motion description is attributed to J. How exactly did Uzi get affected by that to amplify her perception?

The second part makes no sense as again, N not only saw it slow, he was also able to fly fast enough to make it hit him instead of hitting Uzi, which would make it a speed feat since he reacted to it, not just perceived it going slow.

Solver is literally her passive abilities due the fact that every Regen abilities are just subset of the solver abilities, that's one of reasons why N didn't continue regenerate it, even so , it's still apply to the same resistance as she can overcome magnets nullification after this.

We didn't even see N's regeneration process, it's not like he just regenerates instantly, so we don't know if it actually negated his regeneration, especially with the fact they were going to take his heart anyways.

She only overcame the magnet's nullification because Cyn possessed her, and it's already accepted in this thread that no one scales to Cyn's absolute solver.

No one should scale to Cyn in the verse aside from Uzi when she fused with her, because Cyn was the only one being directly controlled by the Absolute Solver. It was made very clear that Uzi could not defeat Cyn, needed constant help, and even when she did win, it was mostly due to luck. Even the black hole feat attributed to Uzi was performed while she was being controlled by the Absolute Solver. It's been shown that, Uzi get's alot stronger when that happens comapred to her normal self.

Do you even understand what I mean by "value" ? I was talked a general values which needs to be acception like speed or DC feats, it doesn't need for the same range.

That's not even what value means.

Zero elaborate neither give actual justification for this so I'll just ignore your statement because I don't see a purpose for me to respond on argument which cannot even be a vaild argument

That's literally a clear jab at the trope. There was quite literally no reason for the comic to spell it out that way, when they could've made it clear they were amplifying their perceptions to blitz the other.

Also, this is the comic anyways, which isn't canon to the show, so it's not going to support argument, as you can't take something not canon and attribute it to the canon you're arguing, especially with how distinct both the show and the comics are.

 

[Soul80]

Why are you bringing up arguments unrelated to this one? Occam's Razor favors me via the fact I'm arguing something we know the solver can do, rather than assume it has a whole new ability.

Unrelated argument ? Do you even know what is Occam razor then ? A Occam razor should be related to value of argument which should support by both , evidences AND explanation , tf there no any of this and just reason from nothing therefore it means that assuming itself are useless if it's doesn't have any value in arguments like justification for supporting your argument, this is related argument since you're doing assumption for no reason and there no explanation why , it's just theoretical assumption but it's not necessarily a objectively. At least there actually proves for this and there nothing wrong about it because we don't know all function of absolute solver.

So it's better to assumed a whole new ability for the solver, when you can instead argue it does that via an ability it already has and has shown it being used?

I already did , this is one of reasons why your argument are Occam razor cuz you're need actually to proves for your assumptions cuz it's doesn't have any support evidences to suggest that it's related ability, and yeah ? That's how revision work's. Bringing new abilities which people didn't added before.

It literally says "load epic slow-motion fight sequence" that's literally a known and overused trope for fight scenes. It's clearly referencing it as a joke.

I already explained it , by that's logic whole series are just joke if it's has comedic elements elements which show we're talking about are based on comedic - horror elements. So it doesn't mean that statement itself should have a luck of supporting if it's just comedic element (a random worker drone literally let N into the bunker just because he wrote apologize in page and you're still trying to say that comedic elements aren't part of the series and cannot take seriously lmao)

First off, the slow-motion description is attributed to J. How exactly did Uzi get affected by that to amplify her perception?

This a slow motion suggest the J attack when she tried to land her claws,but Uzi dodged at the moment she saw it in slow motion through her prepection, that's making for the same argument as other supportings which you didn't even addressed.

The second part makes no sense as again, N not only saw it slow, he was also able to fly fast enough to make it hit him instead of hitting Uzi, which would make it a speed feat since he reacted to it, not just perceived it going slow.

Yeah ? So you're just agreed on me about that he prepection should saw axe in slow motion which is is one of the reasons why we're debating ? Cuz he saw it in slow through his prepection , sure it's speed feat but it wouldn't be matter since they're already MFTL in speed. So as I said before, whatever you try to bring a speed feat, it's still should amplified his prepection speed anyway.

We didn't even see N's regeneration process, it's not like he just regenerates instantly, so we don't know if it actually negated his regeneration, especially with the fact they were going to take his heart anyways.

Okay so you're ignoring that those magnets was made for , just give a magnets so it should nullify their Absolute solver, otherwise you have a proves that he can regenerate after it , otherwise it's just reason from nothing, give me a real proves for it rn.

She only overcame the magnet's nullification because Cyn possessed her, and it's already accepted in this thread that no one scales to Cyn's absolute solver.

No. We can see where Uzi and Cyn solver used absolute solver , only after we can see that it's Cyn started to use absolute solver, in the beginning she used only her absolute solver and not Cyn solver due difference of the colours, you have to prove that she overcome it through only Cyn absolute solver otherwise you're doing a reason from nothing again.

That's not even what value means.

Sure not for you but you don't even know what I mean by values which you need to have acception from Mods and one which doesn't need.

That's literally a clear jab at the trope. There was quite literally no reason for the comic to spell it out that way, when they could've made it clear they were amplifying their perceptions to blitz the other.

"oh drone's can see in slow motion because their prepection are amplified" that's statement which you're suggesting for ? But it did by the fact that it's means it's just they're saw it slow motion that they're close to the ground .

Also, this is the comic anyways, which isn't canon to the show, so it's not going to support argument

Didn't say comic's itself are canon, but event's from the comic's should be accurate to the show in 90% so it's only half canon and Those event's should be accurate for the show anyway.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

She only overcame the magnet's nullification because Cyn possessed her, and it's already accepted in this thread that no one scales to Cyn's absolute solver.

Uzi's Solver was shown to be directly comparable Cyn's right here (Cyn's NULL would've just pushed through if Uzi's wasn't somewhat comparable).

Might as well go into physicals too (Just in case).

Uzi clashes with and can notably damage Cyn and rip through her body. Uzi did not defeat Cyn off of luck, she noticed that Cyn was going teleport and knew Cyn would go in for another sneak attack. Cyn was able to rip through Uzi's body easier, but she did so by lunging forward whereas Uzi did not have as much momentum. Cyn mostly relies on her unconventional movement, sneak attacks, and scare tactics, she is smarter and more skilled by being able to take on N, V, and Uzi all at once, but even N and V can still knock her around despite her physical advantage over them. Cyn tanked her own core collapse better than Uzi but that's about it.

You're pretty much right about everything else though.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Uzi's Solver was shown to be directly comparable Cyn's right here (Cyn's NULL would've just pushed through if Uzi's wasn't somewhat comparable).

Might as well go into physicals too (Just in case).

Uzi clashes with and can notably damage Cyn and rip through her body. Uzi did not defeat Cyn off of luck, she noticed that Cyn was going teleport and knew Cyn would go in for another sneak attack. Cyn was able to rip through Uzi's body easier, but she did so by lunging forward whereas Uzi did not have as much momentum. Cyn mostly relies on her unconventional movement, sneak attacks, and scare tactics, she is smarter and more skilled by being able to take on N, V, and Uzi all at once, but even N and V can still knock her around despite her physical advantage over them. Cyn tanked her own core collapse better than Uzi but that's about it.

You're pretty much right about everything else though.

Pre-ep 8 Uzi probably wouldn't have Cyn's supposed resistance to power null just to be clear. Cyn is more experienced with the Solver and would have access to more abilities at that point

 

[Mythic381]

Unrelated argument ? Do you even know what is Occam razor then ? A Occam razor should be related to value of argument which should support by both , evidences AND explanation ,

What? You ask what Occam's Razor means yet don't even explain it correctly. Occam's Razor is just a tool that recommends selecting the simplest explanation out of all the established explanations, now let me ask you a question: Is it simpler to assume that the Solver gave the information to Nori via abilities it already has? Or to assume it has an entire other ability that allowed her to do that?

tf there no any of this and just reason from nothing therefore it means that assuming itself are useless if it's doesn't have any value in arguments like justification for supporting your argument, this is related argument since you're doing assumption for no reason and there no explanation why , it's just theoretical assumption but it's not necessarily a objectively. At least there actually proves for this and there nothing wrong about it because we don't know all function of absolute solver.

How exactly am I assuming something that has no evidence? My argument is literally derived from the fact that Cyn has shown the abilities to create illusions and make characters experience events. You're assuming that she has the ability to dump information into someone from basically nothing except knowing that at some point, Nori predicted that the planet would "eat itself" and went into madness.

Again, just because you "don't know everything about the solver" doesn't mean your assumption is more supported. My argument is literally DERIVED from her having abilities that can do that function.

I already explained it , by that's logic whole series are just joke if it's has comedic elements elements which show we're talking about are based on comedic - horror elements. So it doesn't mean that statement itself should have a luck of supporting if it's just comedic element (a random worker drone literally let N into the bunker just because he wrote apologize in page and you're still trying to say that comedic elements aren't part of the series and cannot take seriously lmao)

There's a difference between normal comedy in the show and outright poking fun at a trope. These aren't even related so I don't get what you're trying to prove.

This a slow motion suggest the J attack when she tried to land her claws,but Uzi dodged at the moment she saw it in slow motion through her prepection, that's making for the same argument as other supportings which you didn't even addressed.

Literally a conclusion pulled out of no where. "Oh yeah, it says their fight was in slow-motion, so it means she dodged the attack" like that doesn't even have anything to do with each other.

Yeah ? So you're just agreed on me about that he prepection should saw axe in slow motion which is is one of the reasons why we're debating ? Cuz he saw it in slow through his prepection , sure it's speed feat but it wouldn't be matter since they're already MFTL in speed. So as I said before, whatever you try to bring a speed feat, it's still should amplified his prepection speed anyway.

There's a difference between something being a speed feat and something being "self-perception amplification" The feat in question is clearly a speed feat, as it wouldn't make sense for N to be able to react and fly faster than something that he can only see in "slow-motion" rather than it actually moving at slow motion relative to him.

No, it would matter even though they're "MFTL" because as I said, the argument is trying to give these characters "self-perception amplification" as an ability, which is something totally different than being simply fast.

Okay so you're ignoring that those magnets was made for , just give a magnets so it should nullify their Absolute solver, otherwise you have a proves that he can regenerate after it , otherwise it's just reason from nothing, give me a real proves for it rn.

The magnets negated her aggressive use of the Absolute Solver, it didn't negate her regeneration, and there's no proof it negated the DD's regeneration either, as we N doesn't regenerate instantly, so you can't say his regeneration was negated just because you saw his body broken.

No. We can see where Uzi and Cyn solver used absolute solver , only after we can see that it's Cyn started to use absolute solver, in the beginning she used only her absolute solver and not Cyn solver due difference of the colours, you have to prove that she overcome it through only Cyn absolute solver otherwise you're doing a reason from nothing again.

Quite literally understood absolutely nothing from your sentence.

The sequence outright shows that Cyn possessed Uzi's body, and was able to actually use the Absolute Solver to make a hole in the wall. I don't care what you mention, it's clear that it was Cyn (voice, yellow eyes, yellow solver) being the one in control, while Uzi quite literally collapses right after she's back in control (purple eyes return).

No, we aren't arguing Uzi succeeded in doing anything with the Solver at that time. Heck, literally in the final scenes of the episode does N and V stop Uzi from using the Solver because THEY KNEW she would get possessed by Cyn again.

"oh drone's can see in slow motion because their prepection are amplified" that's statement which you're suggesting for ? But it did by the fact that it's means it's just they're saw it slow motion that they're close to the ground .

Yes? I'm suggesting an actual statement making it clear that they can perceive stuff in slow-motion via an innate ability, rather than poking fun at a trope to justify something.

 

[Mythic381]

Uzi's Solver was shown to be directly comparable Cyn's right here (Cyn's NULL would've just pushed through if Uzi's wasn't somewhat comparable).

At that point in the fight, we know that Cyn was holding back and not truly fighting at her best, as we see multiple times did she have the chance to beat each one multiple times before and yet did nothing.

Might as well go into physicals too (Just in case).

Yeah no. The Solver isn't a UES, them being physically comparable doesn't prove anything for whether or not their Solvers are comparable.

Uzi did not defeat Cyn off of luck

She did rely on luck that Cyn wasn't fighting at her best and was toying with her.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

At that point in the fight, we know that Cyn was holding back and not truly fighting at her best, as we see multiple times did she have the chance to beat each one multiple times before and yet did nothing.

Yeah no. The Solver isn't a UES, them being physically comparable doesn't prove anything for whether or not their Solvers are comparable.

She did rely on luck that Cyn wasn't fighting at her best and was toying with her.

1. Proof? Also, it's the only real instance of their Solvers clashing to scale off of.

2. Black hole scaling isn't valid anymore, so their physicals are what they're scaled off of. Also, the downgrade thread semi-treated it as if Uzi wasn't even physically comparable either.

3. She noticed Cyn was going to sneak attack her and then turned around and held her hand out, intentionally gripping for her core (notice how her fingers are positioned).

Cyn's "joyful" demeanor doesn't really seem to indicate her not going all out, it just mostly seems to sadism. Cyn generally just uses scare tactics to get others to lower guard so she can land a critical hit.

She does seem to be somewhat stronger, but I don't think it's to an insane degree.

Regardless, this is probably irrelevant anyways.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Back to the teleportation range thing, why would Nori/Cyn even make a physical hole to the planet's core to travel down if they could just get there by teleporting (roughly) twice? (Also, it's implied they traveled down the hole physically, further supporting that their tp range isn't that high).

 

[ZenchiNo]

Agree with everything except regeneration negation.
Neutral on that one.

 

[Mythic381]

1. Proof? Also, it's the only real instance of their Solvers clashing to scale off of.

• Effortlessly beats Uzi and N.
• Effortlessly beats them again. In this sequence specifically She:

Effortlessly smacked away N, cut off Uzi's hand, tore Uzi's core out of her chest, and rapidly tore N to shreds, all within the span of seconds while clearly not taking the situation seriously

In this situation too, it's made clear she wasn't taking it seriously: She's smiling maniacally, talks in a sarcastic way, calls N "eager beaver," etc.

• One-shot Doll.
• Easily overpowered V when Uzi and N were distracted.

Pretty sure all these instances prove that not only did she not take them seriously, but she's massively superior to them.

2. Black hole scaling isn't valid anymore, so their physicals are what they're scaled off of. Also, the downgrade thread semi-treated it as if Uzi wasn't even physically comparable either.

You do realize their NULLs are indexed as " far higher" meaning they scale higher but to an unknown value, which is why it's indexed like that? The Solvers aren't UES, they only upscale their physicals, but their physicals don't matter to the scaling, as they would still be far higher.

3. She noticed Cyn was going to sneak attack her and then turned around and held her hand out, intentionally gripping for her core (notice how her fingers are positioned).

That is kind of irrelevant to this argument, as it doesn't prove Uzi was superior to Cyn, it just proves she was smart enough to detect she was teleporting, as she saw her form flickering too, so it's an indicator of her intelligence and skill, not scaling.

Cyn's "joyful" demeanor doesn't really seem to indicate her not going all out, it just mostly seems to sadism. Cyn generally just uses scare tactics to get others to lower guard so she can land a critical hit.

It kind of does, as we don't really see her ever taking anyone seriously, and she straight up one-shots practically everyone she fights at some point in the show.

She does seem to be somewhat stronger, but I don't think it's to an insane degree.

Being able to destroy someone's body at the levels she does is considered an "insane degree." She straight up tore Uzi's core out of her body, and tore N's body to shreds.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

• Effortlessly beats Uzi and N.
• Effortlessly beats them again. In this sequence specifically She:

In this situation too, it's made clear she wasn't taking it seriously: She's smiling maniacally, talks in a sarcastic way, calls N "eager beaver," etc.

• One-shot Doll.
• Easily overpowered V when Uzi and N were distracted.

Pretty sure all these instances prove that not only did she not take them seriously, but she's massively superior to them.

You do realize their NULLs are indexed as " far higher" meaning they scale higher but to an unknown value, which is why it's indexed like that? The Solvers aren't UES, they only upscale their physicals, but their physicals don't matter to the scaling, as they would still be far higher.

That is kind of irrelevant to this argument, as it doesn't prove Uzi was superior to Cyn, it just proves she was smart enough to detect she was teleporting, as she saw her form flickering too, so it's an indicator of her intelligence and skill, not scaling.

It kind of does, as we don't really see her ever taking anyone seriously, and she straight up one-shots practically everyone she fights at some point in the show.

Being able to destroy someone's body at the levels she does is considered an "insane degree." She straight up tore Uzi's core out of her body, and tore N's body to shreds.

1. They were scared, unfocused, and off guard

2. It took her quite a bit of time to rip apart N.

3. There's cut in the scene with Doll, it's not that Cyn one-shot Doll, it's Doll getting mauled by Cyn for an unknown period of time before barely escaping and succumbing to her wounds.

4. Uzi also overpowered/ragdolled V and J (with just her tail), the Murder Drones are nerfed Solver hosts, they're not exactly on the same level but they somewhat scale.

5. Didn't Cyn physically crush a NULL that tanked its own planet-shaking blast? (To be fair, it likely wasn't a full power NULL) Maybe this could be used as evidence that she's far more powerful than she seems compared to Uzi? (I guess this scene counts too somewhat since Cyn is weakened)

6. It being skill would prove it wasn't "mostly luck".

7. Her "not taking things seriously" can be a result of her overestimating herself.

8. While Cyn could be holding back on her attacks, she can't hold back on her durability, if she was insanely above Uzi, N, and V, they wouldn't be capable of knocking her around or flinching her at all, which they clearly can. Cyn can rip out Uzi and N's cores, but Uzi can do the same to Cyn (Cyn did it with more ease but she had more momentum).

I'm not saying Cyn's weaker, I'm saying her overwhelming Uzi, N, and V is mostly because of scare tactics and surprise attacks. (Are the two instances I listed good enough evidence for Cyn being vastly above in power with her crushing the NULL and semi-restraining Uzi for a bit while weakened idk?)

Small semi-unrelated question, why do we scale Cyn's durability from Uzi surviving Cyn's core collapse when Cyn was also in the center of her own explosion? Didn't the blast come from her own body pretty much? Would Cyn not just scale from tanking her own explosion?

 

[Mythic381]

1. They were scared, unfocused, and off guard

Uzi had her Solver ready, and N only got shoved at the start. Cyn tore Uzi apart in like 2 seconds, then stopped all of N's attacks and also tore him apart.

2. It took her quite a bit of time to rip apart N.

It was a couple of seconds, so it doesn't matter. It's not like she was tearing him apart with her tendrils, she was using her arms.

3. There's cut in the scene with Doll, it's not that Cyn one-shot Doll, it's Doll getting mauled by Cyn for an unknown period of time before barely escaping and succumbing to her wounds.

Doll's screen blatantly implies that she basically was unable to do anything, as it flickers and gets cut, with us later seeing her absolutely mauled. She obviously lost and only escaped via unknown methods.

4. Uzi also overpowered/ragdolled V and J (with just her tail), the Murder Drones are nerfed Solver hosts, they're not exactly on the same level but they somewhat scale.

This is even further proof of the power difference. V was utterly incapable of defeating berserk Uzi, who would still be significantly weaker than Cyn, the person controlled by the Solver to 100%.

5. Didn't Cyn physically crush a NULL that tanked its own planet-shaking blast? (To be fair, it likely wasn't a full power NULL) Maybe this could be used as evidence that she's far more powerful than she seems compared to Uzi? (I guess this scene counts too somewhat since Cyn is weakened)

We don't have calculations for how powerful NULLs are since they were

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Uzi had her Solver ready, and N only got shoved at the start. Cyn tore Uzi apart in like 2 seconds, then stopped all of N's attacks and also tore him apart.

Doll's screen blatantly implies that she basically was unable to do anything, as it flickers and gets cut, with us later seeing her absolutely mauled. She obviously lost and only escaped via unknown methods.

This is even further proof of the power difference. V was utterly incapable of defeating berserk Uzi, who would still be significantly weaker than Cyn, the person controlled by the Solver to 100%.

We don't have calculations for how powerful NULLs are since they were

1. The clip I was responding too was from ep 7, they were very not ready and too shocked to know what to do. Also, the ep 8 clip they were still off guard and N did push through her tentacle and slice it.

2. Which means Doll didn't die instantly.

3. If the full sentence you're trying to say is "We don't have calculations for how powerful NULLs are since they were debunked", I don't think that debunk holds up too well, it essentially relies on a head canon that there was a retcon that the crater doesn't exist when in every other shot of the planet it's either too dark to see anything or not even knowing what side of the planet it's on, and a forest we don't know the actual location of.

And the argument that it didn't damage the church or the labs doesn't really hold up too well when it was already accepted in previous threads that objects made by JcJenson scale to the characters and the church is somewhat mysterious in nature and is shown to be durable enough to tank this and this (unless Uzi and those clouds are somehow massless, that church is clearly meant to be more durable than a regular building).

And the labs were made for the sole purpose of containing and researching Solver users, it should probably be able to withstand a blast from a Solver user actively holding back that happened an entire planetary radius away. Though I do agree that the original core collapse calc had to go due to it being riddled with errors (the crater's size, not accounting for planet curvature scaling, messing up the radius of the planet, even with all the stuff I said it's still way to high and contradicts the damage shown on the surface, etc). I wonder if a recalc will ever be made?

This is kind of irrelevant and I guess I do at least agree with you on Cyn being stronger, I should probably get back to the discussing the actual points of the CRT.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

1. The clip I was responding too was from ep 7, they were very not ready and too shocked to know what to do. Also, the ep 8 clip they were still off guard and N did push through her tentacle and slice it.

2. Which means Doll didn't die instantly.

3. If the full sentence you're trying to say is "We don't have calculations for how powerful NULLs are since they were debunked", I don't think that debunk holds up too well, it essentially relies on a head canon that there was a retcon that the crater doesn't exist when in every other shot of the planet it's either too dark to see anything or not even knowing what side of the planet it's on, and a forest we don't know the actual location of.

And the argument that it didn't damage the church or the labs doesn't really hold up too well when it was already accepted in previous threads that objects made by JcJenson scale to the characters and the church is somewhat mysterious in nature and is shown to be durable enough to tank this and this (unless Uzi and those clouds are somehow massless, that church is clearly meant to be more durable than a regular building).

And the labs were made for the sole purpose of containing and researching Solver users, it should probably be able to withstand a blast from a Solver user actively holding back that happened an entire planetary radius away. Though I do agree that the original core collapse calc had to go due to it being riddled with errors (the crater's size, not accounting for planet curvature scaling, messing up the radius of the planet, even with all the stuff I said it's still way to high and contradicts the damage shown on the surface, etc). I wonder if a recalc will ever be made?

This is kind of irrelevant and I guess I do at least agree with you on Cyn being stronger, I should probably get back to the discussing the actual points of the CRT.

Maybe I'm being too harsh?

 

[Mythic381]

1. The clip I was responding too was from ep 7, they were very not ready and too shocked to know what to do. Also, the ep 8 clip they were still off guard and N did push through her tentacle and slice it.

Uzi had time to do something, yet got instantly stabbed by Cyn. Also, being off-guard doesn't mean your durability is weaker, she still sliced through both of them.

All N did was slice one tentacle, he really did not do much.

2. Which means Doll didn't die instantly.

One-shot doesn't just mean "insta killed." It me over-exaggerating how easy it was for Cyn to beat Doll.

3. If the full sentence you're trying to say is "We don't have calculations for how powerful NULLs are since they were debunked", I don't think that debunk holds up too well,

Yeah no, that's not how it works.

The reason the NULLs were "debunked" was because all the calculations that scaled NULLs relied on the assumption that NULLs are blackholes. All the calculations used specific methods that calculate blackholes. For example, this solar system NULL calculation used Schwarzschild radius equation, which only applies to blackholes.

A CRT was made which reached the conclusion that NULLs are not blackholes, meaning all the calculations were removed.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

The reason the NULLs were "debunked" was because all the calculations that scaled NULLs relied on the assumption that NULLs are blackholes. All the calculations used specific methods that calculate blackholes. For example, this solar system NULL calculation used Schwarzschild radius equation, which only applies to blackholes.

A CRT was made which reached the conclusion that NULLs are not blackholes, meaning all the calculations were removed.

That's fair.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Idk why I'm listed as agree, I'm mostly neutral here.

 

[Kirua29]

Idk why I'm listed as agree, I'm mostly neutral here.

Ah, my bad, I thought you agreed, I'll change that

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Ah, my bad, I thought you agreed, I'll change that

Actually, I do agree with the heat resistance upgrade. But I believe only Solver users would scale to it since only Solver users like Nori and Cyn have shown to survive in a planet's core and Murder Drones are nerfed Solver users.

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Actually, I do agree with the heat resistance upgrade. But I believe only Solver users would scale to it since only Solver users like Nori and Cyn have shown to survive in a planet's core and Murder Drones are nerfed Solver users.

I also somewhat agree with the intelligence/skill upgrades (not genius for J though) and the review of their weakness.

 

[Mythic381]

I'd recommend you to not constantly send messages. If you have something to say, just say it in one message. Thank you.

 

[Mythic381]

To simplify my stance: (Full arguments here.)

Agree: Life manipulation, biological manipulation, analytical prediction, madness manipulation, regeneration negation, information analysis, enhanced vision. Upgrade resistance to temperature manipulation and resistance to power nullification for Cyn.

Neutral: Range and intelligence.

Disagree: Memory manipulation, information manipulation, self-perception amplification, projection creation (Holograms are noted under illusion creation) and resistance to power nullification for Uzi.

 

[Soul80]

What? You ask what Occam's Razor means yet don't even explain it correctly. Occam's Razor is just a tool that recommends selecting the simplest explanation out of all the established explanations, now let me ask you a question: Is it simpler to assume that the Solver gave the information to Nori via abilities it already has? Or to assume it has an entire other ability that allowed her to do that?

Yes, you just proved that you absolutely don't know ANYTHING about Occam razor , this is a stable claim which presumption are correct , those stables claim are explanation which supporting by the same reasoning which been proved already. Make those arguments more stronger than his aponents args since his explanation are more reasonable to say because of better supporting evidences and explanation , if I'll just say some random assumption without any support evidences then it's literally make my argument useless since it's claim which doesn't any evidences nor logical explanation, since we don't know how absolute solver works yes, we don't much know about the solver full abilities for now.

How exactly am I assuming something that has no evidence? My argument is literally derived from the fact that Cyn has shown the abilities to create illusions and make characters experience events. You're assuming that she has the ability to dump information into someone from basically nothing except knowing that at some point, Nori predicted that the planet would "eat itself" and went into madness.

For projection creations... Damn, ye let's forget that projection creations is literally just illusion creation but with speed while those projections aren't real and always been illusion from absolute solver glitches and no , this not even look like the same at all, both holograms of Cyn and Doll in abilities has a different colours which suggest to create them, when Cyn created holograms , it's has a blue colours while at her projections she turned into her standard absolute solver yellow color , the same goes to a Doll. (Doll does not have any color right after it) And it's not assuming if it's showed right here, absolute solver itself are related to the soul manip which people didn't complain so YES? it means that we don't even know a 80% of absolute solver in all abilities and how it's working but your assumption literally doesn't suggest any relations and just possibility from "oh maybe it's related to holograms but I can't explain why"

Again, just because you "don't know everything about the solver" doesn't mean your assumption is more supported. My argument is literally DERIVED from her having abilities that can do that function.

Again, there nothing wrong about it therefore and new ability key can be accepted if other people already agrees while you're complain because you're making up assumptions without any support evidences or at least any elaboration why it's true otherwise you want to refuse it instead of making unjustified criticism. Just creating a new assumptions while having no vaild evidences why it's related to other abilities of absolute solver is just the same as making headcanons for no reason.

There's a difference between normal comedy in the show and outright poking fun at a trope. These aren't even related so I don't get what you're trying to prove.

Oh so you're ignoring those facts that MD always been absurd in plot if most of characters killing count was literally addressed as comedics parts and N apologize made up for no reason but they still accepted it , that's should just make a whole series absurd by this logic. So we should ignore a lore whis of MD just because it says "lol" in some of computer panels but it's still important information for their lore ? It doesn't work like that, there no any actual vaild reasons to say it's a visual gag while it's actually one of murder drones event's , even if it's addressed in a comedic performance cuz it's simple tone of the show. All your reason to say why we need to ignore it just because it says on non informal speech but anyway, I still waiting when you'll prove your reason otherwise you want to circulate then sure.

Literally a conclusion pulled out of no where. "Oh yeah, it says their fight was in slow-motion, so it means she dodged the attack" like that doesn't even have anything to do with each other.

Ah yes, so we need ignore the context of this scene , yeah it's doesn't anything with each other but you wouldn't explain why or at least give me refuse why it doesn't have connection to my explanation which I said before, but I guess you're just ignored entire context of the scene while you're making assumption without support evidences making point more funnier.

There's a difference between something being a speed feat and something being "self-perception amplification" The feat in question is clearly a speed feat, as it wouldn't make sense for N to be able to react and fly faster than something that he can only see in "slow-motion" rather than it actually moving at slow motion relative to him.

Self Perception amplification reffed to the prepection speed of the character which character B can see object A in slower prepection than normal prepection of the character can do , it's limped to the same Kokushibo prepection and Arthur death eye, just because DDS is already fast af in terms of physical stats in speed it's still doesn't limped to the same prepection and how they can see objects in slow motion, also no, it's not really impossible if DDS itself are Mftl in speed and we in that case, he shouldn't save Uzi and dodge it by itself so their prepection are more superior because N can see it in slow motion but still can't dodge it by himself.

No, it would matter even though they're "MFTL" because as I said, the argument is trying to give these characters "self-perception amplification" as an ability, which is something totally different than being simply fast.

You're reffered to the speed feat just because we see that he can travel with MFTL speed with through his prepection which we see, your argument literally doesn't refuse it completely neither explains why it should be not taken as in his prepection also if it's can be taken in both keys as N can still react to the things trough his prepection in slow motion and travel there (even if that key's if you want to say that his prepection should be equal to his travel why he didn't saved Uzi and dodged pickaxe at the same time lol?)

The magnets negated her aggressive use of the Absolute Solver, it didn't negate her regeneration, and there's no proof it negated the DD's regeneration either, as we N doesn't regenerate instantly, so you can't say his regeneration was negated just because you saw his body broken.

"The magnets negated her aggressive use of absolute solver" already making assumption even it's doesn't explain if it's shouldn't completely negate their absolute solver if Aliced use it for killing other absolute solvers and take it other pieces from other (that's one of reasons why Alice was confused how Uzi still can regenerate even though she already has three magnets in her head and still can use absolute solver functions itself) and no, in first scene we saw that it's used her passive function of the absolute solver which completely negate it, she couldn't even use translate before because it completely been negated but later on she overcome it.
No. DDS are minor host of the absolute solver so their function of Regen should be similar because it's worked from the same device , nothing suggest that DDS and administrators regeneration function are different even so your assumptions are condradication yourself by the fact that you're already been agreed ik enhanced sense key with the same reason as here but I guess you didn't really read CRT.

Quite literally understood absolutely nothing from your sentence.

The sequence outright shows that Cyn possessed Uzi's body, and was able to actually use the Absolute Solver to make a hole in the wall. I don't care what you mention, it's clear that it was Cyn (voice, yellow eyes, yellow solver) being the one in control, while Uzi quite literally collapses right after she's back in control (purple eyes return).

...you literally used scene where Uzi already been possessed by absolute solver AFTER Uzi tried to use her absolute solver so she can save N, there difference where she using HER OWN absolute solver (purple) and when she get possessed by Cyn Absolute solver (yellow) , in other scenes where she still can use rotate mean's that she using her absolute solver still so it means that she still can resist it even after it should been completely negated , N moment is just support , we can see that she using her own absolute solver and not Cyn solver, if it's been in that case then she could been in unconscious and solver is one who should take the control but no, She still could do it by herself.

No, we aren't arguing Uzi succeeded in doing anything with the Solver at that time. Heck, literally in the final scenes of the episode does N and V stop Uzi from using the Solver because THEY KNEW she would get possessed by Cyn again.

I already explained this and STILL not enough huh ? She wasn't possessed at time when she used her solver while her device was negated and she still been at conscious so she it wasn't made by Cyn solver itself.

Yes? I'm suggesting an actual statement making it clear that they can perceive stuff in slow-motion via an innate ability, rather than poking fun at a trope to justify something.

You can sure circulate the same reason but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't give valid argument for saying it shouldn't make it clear , it's not gag if it's addressed in comedic performance cuz it's tone of the show itself.

 

[Soul80]

To simplify my stance: (Full arguments here.)

Agree: Life manipulation, biological manipulation, analytical prediction, madness manipulation, regeneration negation, information analysis, enhanced vision. Upgrade resistance to temperature manipulation and resistance to power nullification for Cyn.

Neutral: Range and intelligence.

Disagree: Memory manipulation, information manipulation, self-perception amplification, projection creation (Holograms are noted under illusion creation) and resistance to power nullification for Uzi.

Alright.

 

[Kirua29]

To simplify my stance: (Full arguments here.)

Agree: Life manipulation, biological manipulation, analytical prediction, madness manipulation, regeneration negation, information analysis, enhanced vision. Upgrade resistance to temperature manipulation and resistance to power nullification for Cyn.

Neutral: Range and intelligence.

Disagree: Memory manipulation, information manipulation, self-perception amplification, projection creation (Holograms are noted under illusion creation) and resistance to power nullification for Uzi.

However, illusions cannot normally cause harm; if they do, it's a projection.

 

[Kirua29]

To simplify my stance: (Full arguments here.)

Agree: Life manipulation, biological manipulation, analytical prediction, madness manipulation, regeneration negation, information analysis, enhanced vision. Upgrade resistance to temperature manipulation and resistance to power nullification for Cyn.

Neutral: Range and intelligence.

Disagree: Memory manipulation, information manipulation, self-perception amplification, projection creation (Holograms are noted under illusion creation) and resistance to power nullification for Uzi.

Yeah, but with all that, which category would I put you in?

 

[Kirua29]

Actually, I do agree with the heat resistance upgrade. But I believe only Solver users would scale to it since only Solver users like Nori and Cyn have shown to survive in a planet's core and Murder Drones are nerfed Solver users.

What allows them to resist is their physical composition; the solver simply transforms their data into abilities. Everything physical is due to JcJanson's creation, and therefore their resistance is considered to be entirely dependent on this information.

 

[Mythic381]

Yes, you just proved that you absolutely don't know ANYTHING about Occam razor , this is a stable claim which presumption are correct

Occam's Razor isn't some logical fallacy. The idea itself is not some standard that is must be followed.

those stables claim are explanation which supporting by the same reasoning which been proved already.

What proof? The only proof the claim has is that Nori in some way was able to predict what the Absolute Solver will do at the very end. The claim is that she was injected with information via the Solver, rather than the Solver having shown her projections of that happening, or making her experience the event in her mind, both which the Solver has done previously.

Make those arguments more stronger than his aponents args since his explanation are more reasonable to say because of better supporting evidences and explanation , if I'll just say some random assumption without any support evidences then it's literally make my argument useless since it's claim which doesn't any evidences nor logical explanation, since we don't know how absolute solver works yes, we don't much know about the solver full abilities for now.

It's not considered "more reasonable" it's considered "simpler" to follow. That's literally the entire point of Occam's Razor, assuming the simpler conclusion.

Again, what do you think is simpler?

• Assuming the Solver can do something via abilities it already has.
• Assuming the Solver can do something via abilities we're never directly shown it has, and all assume it from the conclusion.

For projection creations... Damn, ye let's forget that projection creations is literally just illusion creation

How does that refute anything?

but with speed while those projections aren't real and always been illusion

That doesn't matter. She could've been showing Nori what she'll do at that time, as we know that event hasn't happened yet at the time of her predicting it.

and no , this not even look like the same at all, both holograms of Cyn and Doll in abilities has a different colours which suggest to create them, when Cyn created holograms , it's has a blue colours while at her projections she turned into her standard absolute solver yellow color , the same goes to a Doll. (Doll does not have any color right after it)

Literally how does them being different colors prove anything? Uzi, Doll and Cyn's Absolute Solver also have different colors, does that mean they're different powers? They're still all being done by the Solver, so it's quite literally meaningless.

And it's not assuming if it's showed right here, absolute solver itself are related to the soul manip which people didn't complain so YES? it means that we don't even know a 80% of absolute solver in all abilities and how it's working but your assumption literally doesn't suggest any relations and just possibility from "oh maybe it's related to holograms but I can't explain why"

Why are you mentioning Soul manipulation? Cyn doesn't even have an ability that is remotely connected to it, so your example is quite fallacious and irrelevant.

Also I did explain why, unless you're incapable of understanding what a projection is.

Again, there nothing wrong about it therefore and new ability key can be accepted if other people already agrees while you're complain because you're making up assumptions without any support evidences or at least any elaboration why it's true otherwise you want to refuse it instead of making unjustified criticism. Just creating a new assumptions while having no vaild evidences why it's related to other abilities of absolute solver is just the same as making headcanons for no reason.

You're also making assumptions? You're literally assuming that she can dump information into someone's mind, rather than show them events. That's literally an assumption.

Also, I don't understand this part:

Again, there nothing wrong about it therefore and new ability key can be accepted if other people already agrees while you're complain

Literally what is your point here? This is a CRT, of course I'll argue my points and agree/disagree with certain stuff. You're genuinely unable to comprehend that people will argue for their points when they agree or disagree about something, like what?

Oh so you're ignoring those facts that MD always been absurd in plot if most of characters killing count was literally addressed as comedics parts and N apologize made up for no reason but they still accepted it

Genuinely a bunch of false equivalences.

So we should ignore a lore whis of MD just because it says "lol" in some of computer panels but it's still important information for their lore ? It doesn't work like that, there no any actual vaild reasons to say it's a visual gag while it's actually one of murder drones event's , even if it's addressed in a comedic performance cuz it's simple tone of the show. All your reason to say why we need to ignore it just because it says on non informal speech but anyway, I still waiting when you'll prove your reason otherwise you want to circulate then sure.

Tell me in what way is it being mentioned they're "fighting in slow-motion" even relevant to the plot or practically anything related to the story. I shouldn't even need to explain why slow-motion fight sequences are meant to be gags thrown. This is literally a common trope.

Ah yes, so we need ignore the context of this scene , yeah it's doesn't anything with each other but you wouldn't explain why or at least give me refuse why it doesn't have connection to my explanation which I said before, but I guess you're just ignored entire context of the scene while you're making assumption without support evidences making point more funnier.

You know, ignoring the refutation and saying "I'm not bringing evidence" doesn't make you win the argument, and it doesn't also make your points work better.

Self Perception amplification reffed to the prepection speed of the character which character B can see object A in slower prepection than normal prepection of the character can do , it's limped to the same Kokushibo prepection and Arthur death eye, just because DDS is already fast af in terms of physical stats in speed it's still doesn't limped to the same prepection and how they can see objects in slow motion, also no, it's not really impossible if DDS itself are Mftl in speed and we in that case, he shouldn't save Uzi and dodge it by itself so their prepection are more superior because N can see it in slow motion but still can't dodge it by himself.

N wouldn't need to amplify his perception speed if he could move at said speeds, unless you're assuming for some reason N can somehow move faster than react.

"The magnets negated her aggressive use of absolute solver" already making assumption even it's doesn't explain

What doesn't it explain? It explain why Uzi couldn't use the Solver to stop Alice from breaking her finger, yet she could regenerate. Do you want to know what happens after she regenerates? SHE ATTEMPTS TO USE THE SOLVER AGAIN, AND FAILED TO DO ANYTHING WITH IT. So how could Uzi's Solver be negated, then her regeneration worked, yet her Solver failed at working again? And we know it didn't work as there's a cut with nothing having happened, then we get Uzi being possessed by Cyn, and that's when the Solver works.

if Aliced use it for killing other absolute solvers and take it other pieces from other (that's one of reasons why Alice was confused how Uzi still can regenerate even though she already has three magnets in her head and still can use absolute solver functions itself)

She killed them because she took their cores out of their body, and paralyzed them by putting them in an oven... We literally see her stash.

and no, in first scene we saw that it's used her passive function of the absolute solver which completely negate it, she couldn't even use translate before because it completely been negated but later on she overcome it.

What passive function? Uzi didn't use any passive functions that were negated.

No. DDS are minor host of the absolute solver so their function of Regen should be similar because it's worked from the same device , nothing suggest that DDS and administrators regeneration function are different even so your assumptions are condradication yourself by the fact that you're already been agreed ik enhanced sense key with the same reason as here but I guess you didn't really read CRT.

The CRT literally mentions:

reminder that Disassembly Drones are minor hosts of the Solver, so they are still limited in some abilities compared to natural administrators.

Even Kirua acknowledges DDs are limited compared to actual Solver users. So no, I'm not "contradicting" myself. You're just illiterate.

...you literally used scene where Uzi already been possessed by absolute solver AFTER Uzi tried to use her absolute solver so she can save N,

Yes, because all her attempts failed, until she got fully possessed.

there difference where she using HER OWN absolute solver (purple) and when she get possessed by Cyn Absolute solver (yellow) , in other scenes where she still can use rotate mean's that she using her absolute solver still so it means that she still can resist it even after it should been completely negated , N moment is just support , we can see that she using her own absolute solver and not Cyn solver, if it's been in that case then she could been in unconscious and solver is one who should take the control but no, She still could do it by herself.

...What? What bunch of nonsense are you even smoking? The scene you linked even shows the message "error" when Uzi is using her Solver to stop Alice from breaking it. It didn't work.

I already explained this and STILL not enough huh ? She wasn't possessed at time when she used her solver while her device was negated and she still been at conscious so she it wasn't made by Cyn solver itself.

You know? Let's record all times Uzi attempted to use the Solver:

• Appears for a split second before disappearing.
• Fails at working properly, as it flickers and says "error."
• Attempts to use it, which leads for her Solver to turn yellow, signifying that Cyn is attempting to take over. Still doesn't work as there's a cut with nothing happening.
• Her eyes turn yellow, and Cyn's voice appears. Cyn has possessed her, and the Solver broke the wall.

I find it funny how you're practically just trying to cram as much arguments as you can into your texts for absolutely no reason.

 

[Mythic381]

Yeah, but with all that, which category would I put you in?

You know you can put people in multiple categories based on their stances right?

 

[Kirua29]

You know you can put people in multiple categories based on their stances right?

ah yeh you right, i do it that a little later.